Flydc10 From Mexico, joined Aug 2004, 82 posts, RR: 0 Posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2517 times:
Helo
I have been wondering if Delta operates both the 763 in the ER and non ER version or just the 763ER, and also why do they olny have 8 777, what routs do they use them for.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 79 Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2482 times:
>I have been wondering if Delta operates both the 763 in the ER and non ER version or just the 763ER, and also why do they olny have 8 777, what routs do they use them for.<
DL has both versions of the 763 and the reason for only 8 777s is partly because they ran out of money before they could replace all of the MD-11s with 777s, and because a great deal of their network that needs capacity can be handled with their 764s which are configured for more capacity than the 777s. The 777s are needed on range routes like ATL-NRT and high cargo demand/prestige routes like LGW and CDG
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
ConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2477 times:
Delta ops the 767-200A, the 767-300A, the 767-300ER, and the 767-400ER.
Their 772ER's are generally based in ATL (though do CVG-CDG off and on by season)... and fly from there to the large Euro superhubs (LGW, CDG, etc) as well as NRT.
ConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2467 times:
and the reason for only 8 777s is partly because they ran out of money before they could replace all of the MD-11s with 777s
More along the lines of DALPA successfully lobbying to have the birds restricted to 7hr55min (or less) flights for the majority of their early service life.
Thucydides From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 95 posts, RR: 3 Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2442 times:
They operate 762, 763, 763ER, 764ER
As for 777 routes, the ones that come to mind are:
ATL-NRT
ATL-LGW
ATL-CDG
ATL-FRA
Last year (Feb 04) they announced that they were going to sell two 777's scheduled for delivery this year and that they were in discussions with Boeing about either selling three 777's scheduled for delivery in 2006 or purchasing other Boeing aircraft in their place.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 79 Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2421 times:
>What means "DALPA"? Many thanks in advance.<
Delta Air Line Pilots Association.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Bucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 4 Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2160 times:
"More along the lines of DALPA successfully lobbying to have the birds restricted to 7hr55min (or less) flights for the majority of their early service life."
Bucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 4 Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2027 times:
"DALPA also screwed up the 764ER launch by arguing over the pay rates for the aircraft."
also untrue. Under the contract at the time, the pay for any new aircraft that was introduced had to be negotiated. If no pay rate was agreed to within six months of introduction, the union could refuse to fly the aircraft. In the case of the 767-400, the aircraft was introduced and pay rates negotiated before it ever became an issue. The schedule for operating the 764 was never changed or screwed up at all by DALPA.
Alb222 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 222 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2002 times:
What, however was screwed up was the issue of crew rest seats............caused DL to suspend ATL-HNL service while this was worked out.
OttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1793 times:
I was under the assumption that when Delta began to recieve the 777, DALPA and Delta mgmt couldn't agree on a payscale for the aircraft and the pilots refused to fly them. So Delta mgmt basically said, "Ok, if you don't want to fly them, we won't order any more. Your loss," and after accepting the first ones, cancelled any remaining orders. Only after that did they come to some sort of agreement, but Delta has stuck to its promise of not ordering any more.
With more 764's on order(albeit delayed), I would assume the problem wasn't as bad for the 764.
AAFLT1871 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2333 posts, RR: 16 Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1763 times:
What I find amazing with their small amount of 777's is they do charter that bird out. WWE took a chartered DL 777 from SFO to HNL to NRT for a 6 day trip last week. I would have thought they would use a 767 seeing they have more around to spare. But I guess money is money.
DAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 50 Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1746 times:
>With more 764's on order(albeit delayed), I would assume the problem wasn't as bad for the 764.<
Don't you mean 772s? AFAIK DL (nor anyone else besides the USAF for that matter) doesn't have any 764s on order, only some 20 options.
OttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1724 times:
Don't you mean 772s? AFAIK DL (nor anyone else besides the USAF for that matter) doesn't have any 764s on order, only some 20 options.
Ooops, my bad. They remaing planes are only options, not confirmed orders. As far as the 777's, I believe that Delta will get more of them, probably around the 2009 period, unless the 787 has proven itself and shows more promise by then.
DAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 50 Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1709 times:
>Ooops, my bad. They remaing planes are only options, not confirmed orders. As far as the 777's, I believe that Delta will get more of them, probably around the 2009 period, unless the 787 has proven itself and shows more promise by then.<
I sure hope so, though I would already be very happy if they take up all the 777s they still have on order.
AAFLT1871 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2333 posts, RR: 16 Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1702 times:
As far as the 777's, I believe that Delta will get more of them, probably around the 2009 period,
Providing they get their house in order and start making profits once again. If they do not do that, then DL's 762's will overtake the when will NW replace their DC-9's thread with when wil DL replace their 762 thread as the most annoying on the board. What did they lose last year? Was it 5.2 Billion?
TinPusher007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 963 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1691 times:
You can say whatever you want about DALPA, but IMHO they have always demonstrated a very strong, unified solidarity in dealing with DL management. They make it very clear that they will not be pushed around, threatened or intimidated by management. They are IMHO opinion one of the most intelligent pilot groups out there.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
OttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1678 times:
You can say whatever you want about DALPA, but IMHO they have always demonstrated a very strong, unified solidarity in dealing with DL management. They make it very clear that they will not be pushed around, threatened or intimidated by management. They are IMHO opinion one of the most intelligent pilot groups out there.
Well, you are correct in that they have always showed solidarity when dealing with management and wont be pushed around or itimidated by mangagement. But then again, they also have to show solidarity when they get the DL management boot kick comes.
I don't know so much about them being intelligent, as any airline union, in my opinion, is not intelligent. Either way, I am biased.
For instance, Delta did say they needed to lower costs and a 32.5% pay cut was the minimum that would happen. ALPA offered 9%. Delta said, "No dice, 32.5 minimum." ALPA offered 13%. Delta said, "No, 32.5." So ALPA offered $700 of the $1 million requested(which I thought was a huge step and big move by ALPA). Then management said, "You have just wasted your time, we have now upped it to 40% cut needed." Then ALPA finally got their butts in gear with negotiating.
In the end, what happened. ALPA ended up giving a 32.5% paycut. So all they did over the better part of a year was waste more time and money. I wouldn't exactly call that smart.
AA1871,
LMAO! It will be interesting when the DL762 thread overtakes the NW DC-9 thread. That gets my vote as the most beaten dead horse on this site.
TinPusher007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 963 posts, RR: 2 Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1639 times:
OttoPylit...your point is well taken, but management does the same thing with contract negotiations all the time. When a contract becomes ammendable, they always drag their feet, but as we saw with the last contract that DALPA won, management eventually gave in after wasting years worth of time.
Also..as for DALPA offering numbers short of what management requested, the negotiations weren't strictly dollars and cents. Work rules and reitirement, etc play a HUGE part in contract negotiations. Managments refusal to give the pilots what they wanted in these areas is what probably what made DALPA only offer x-amount of dollars when the knew it was short of the 32.5% that was needed.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
B4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2595 posts, RR: 6 Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1605 times:
AAFLT1871:
I agree with you on your statement of the DL 777 charter-ability. Last summer for the Olympic transports for NBC, I think DL allocated 4 777 to JFK-ATH and ATH-JFK (depending on timing). There was one technical issue with one of the 777 during this, and an existing CDG-ATL flight was cancelled and that 777 ferryed CDG-ATH to execute the return of the Olympic staff.
Most of the 777 routes can be 'subbed' with a 763-ER except of course the ATL-NRT run.
I don't believe DL's cargo ops are using different LD containers in the cargo compartment that individual containers require the 777, but the number and weight may require the 777 of course. I think DL uses only the LD2, LD8, and full pallet container/cargo type. Specifcally, they don't use the LD3 (thus why NW went w/ the A330).
Bucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 4 Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1409 times:
"What, however was screwed up was the issue of crew rest seats............caused DL to suspend ATL-HNL service while this was worked out."
this is true, and personally, I was totally against the union on this one.
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