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Boeing....747 Advanced Launch Prospects Look Good.  
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 14424 times:

I hope its a go...that would be sweet..!!!

"Boeing Commercial Airplanes VP-Marketing Randy Baseler said yesterday that he believes the company will move forward with development of its proposed 747 Advanced.

"I think it will be a go…The market prospects are very good," "

http://www.atwonline.com/indexfull.cfm?newsid=4981


"Up the Irons!"
151 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 14246 times:

How many units would need to be sold to recover the development cost? Is this the best way for Boeing to maintain market presence in this segment until the 787 has entered service?

User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 14224 times:

Excellent news!

Anything that breathes new life into the 747 makes me happy.

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineDaedaeg From United States of America, joined Feb 2003, 657 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 14217 times:

Mr. Stoneceipher, Boeing CEO seems to be a big fan of it as well. And what Stoneceipher wants, Stoneceipher gets. Well, usually.


Everyday you're alive is a good day.
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 14176 times:

What a surprise... a few days after Mr. Leahy calls the sales outlook for Airbus' new (and as of yet not finalized) plane good, Mr. Baseler calls the sales outlook for Boeing's new (and as of yet not finalized) plane good...

Not surprising to see Airbus and Boeing play a new round of PR-ping pong...

Regards,
Frank



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12145 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 14163 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Airlines that don't need the A380 capicity on certain routes will need a B744. B744 does have a future.

User currently onlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5331 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 14016 times:

Hopefully Boeing will go ahead with this one! If they actually go ahead and launch the thing then at least its available to airlines, rather than Boeing wondering how many customers they can get and not building the thing, then they never no.

Long live the 747!


User currently offlineScotron11 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1178 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 13879 times:

Ditto! Sh*t or get off the pot already! A lot of airlines will be ready to order replacements by the EIS date of the 747ADV (approx 2010). BA in particular springs to mind. Let's go!

User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 13835 times:

Has Boeing indicated a 2010 EIS date? That seems pessimistic to me. I would have expected late 2008 or early 2009. Certainly the engines will be ready then. What else takes a long time?

User currently offlineGreaser From Bahamas, joined Jan 2004, 1101 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 13821 times:

That seems pessimistic to me. I would have expected late 2008 or early 2009. Certainly the engines will be ready then. What else takes a long time?

Considering it will be a 787-based 747, it wont come before the 787, and it wont come within 6 months after the last test flight for the first model. 2008 is unrealistic, while 2009 is probable but it will be tight. Engines' arnt everything.



Now you're really flying
User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 13807 times:

something in me says that when they will go on with the project, the first customer would be KLM!!! the A380 is way to big , and the need Combí's since KLM has about 18 combi 747's .

User currently offlineKLMCedric From Belgium, joined Dec 2003, 812 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 13800 times:

Hmmm,....? I'm curious what Boyd will have to say about this.

User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 13758 times:

Greaser, aside from the engines, in what way is the B747Adv a B787-based airplane? I would say the two most significant advances of the B787 are the composite fuselage and bleedless systems, neither of which the B747Adv will have. In terms of technology, the B747Adv will be more comparable to the A380 and A350 than to the B787. What specifically would hold up B747Adv development beyond engine availability?

User currently offlineGreaser From Bahamas, joined Jan 2004, 1101 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 13733 times:

Greaser, aside from the engines, in what way is the B747Adv a B787-based airplane? I would say the two most significant advances of the B787 are the composite fuselage and bleedless systems, neither of which the B747Adv will have. In terms of technology, the B747Adv will be more comparable to the A380 and A350 than to the B787. What specifically would hold up B747Adv development beyond engine availability?

You ARE right, the 2 significant advances will be engine tech.. But, I believe a new wing will be given to the 747, along with a humid-er cabin and the basic 787 cabin features. As for the bleedless systems, who knows?? Not much is inked and alot is still on the table. Right now, no one outside Boeing knows anything firm about it, besides the obvious, and the fact that the efficiency of the 787's engines will be shared with the 747, as stated by Boeing execs.

However, the technology would be about equal to that of the 787, though i seriously doubt they'll have much in cockpit commonality. The 747ADV could have certain parts changed to composite materials, and i've heard a composite tail like the 777 is favored.
One could also look out for a new wing and flap/slats systems.



Now you're really flying
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 13696 times:

Baseler also reiterated the company's view that the market for 747/A380-size aircraft remains extremely limited--only 790 units over 20 years.


Boeing silently adjusted it's market forecast for the next 20 years for 747 and larger aircraft from 533 to 790 now, up nearly 50% in 1 year.

Ref. Boeing Market Outlook 2004, http://www.speednews.com/stw/cmo2004.pdf (page 10)


Strong signal for firm believers always to look at these numbers with specific company interests in mind.


User currently offlineLPLAspotter From Portugal, joined Jan 2005, 682 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 13685 times:

MauriceB:

I agree with you that KLM certainly has a liking to the combi 747. However, wasn't there some discussion on this forum that the FAA will not certify any new aircraft as combi? I can't seem to find the thread, however, I'm almost certain that there was some discussion about it.



Nuke the Gay Wales for Christ
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 13648 times:

If the B747Adv gets a new wing, then I agree that EIS probably won't be in 2008. However, I'll be a little surprised if Boeing decided to invest that much in B747Adv development.

User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 13431 times:

Hmmm,....? I'm curious what Boyd will have to say about this.

Probably much like I'm about to say....

250-300 copies at best, this assumes everyone that has one buys one to replace what's in service. The demand is no longer there, and this move is more political than anything else.


User currently offlineBALandorLivery From UK - England, joined Jan 2005, 360 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 13105 times:

I think it will go ahead.

Boeing needs a new generation aircraft to compete with the A380. They can't let Airbus have the whole of the market share.

Although the 747ADV will be slightly smaller, it sort of has its own niche between 744 and A380.

Am I right to assume that there will be a smaller version to directly replace the 744?

Regds


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 13098 times:

The B747Adv is expected to come in only one size. The next Boeing smaller will be the B777-300ER.

User currently offlineBALandorLivery From UK - England, joined Jan 2005, 360 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 13068 times:

In that case with the 747 ADV being more economical, can seats be removed to get the capacity of a normal 744? Or will it be econmomical enough to operate as normal but with a lower load factor?

What I'm trying to get at is; what will the direct replacement for the 744 be?

The 777-300ER or 747ADV


User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 13044 times:

Part of me wants to see the beautiful 747 grace the skies for years to come, but the other part of me says it's going to die a horrible death if the 747 adv is launched.

User currently offlineJumbojet From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 12954 times:

Other then engineering differences with the 747ADV, what are the structual changes? Will the top deck be lengthened, is it the main deck that will be extended?

S


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 12924 times:

Some B747-400s will be replaced by B777-300ERs; some will be replaced by B747Adv. It depends on the needs of the airline.

User currently offlineJMV From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 241 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 12893 times:

Greaser,

The 747ADV likely won't have higher cabin humidity. Boeing is able to increase the humidity level in the 787 because it is a composite fuselage, thus less prone to corrosion. Assuming the 747ADV will retain its aluminum fuselage, cabin pressure and conditions will remain the same as the 747-400.



Google begins where my brain ends! ©
25 Post contains links BoeingBus : Here's a snippet from a news article in the Wahington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12605-2005Feb9.html The 747 Advanced, as th
26 Keesje : So what about Boeing certainly boosting its market forecast for 747+ sized aircraft by 50% at the moment they try to sell the 747adv? What about the
27 BoeingBus : What about the credibility of the rest of Boeings forecasts about e.g the market they see for the 7e7? The same goes for Airbus forecasts... they are
28 PlaneSmart : If the justification for a 747ADV is 'as pricing pressure on the A380', it's a pretty poor reason for B stakeholders to give it the green light. Perha
29 JDD1 : Zvezda The 747ADV has to be a new airplane. It will be fly-by-wire almost certainly, with basically the same systems and flight deck as the 777 and 78
30 BoeingBus : If Boeing can bridge the gap of actual operating costs to the A380... Than just maybe, there are more airliners that would opt for the 747ADV than the
31 Zvezda : JDD1, who says Boeing will spend $12B+ on developing the B747Adv? They could spend nearer to $2B. One group of airlines wants a minimal, low-cost, rea
32 Areopagus : Hmmm,....? I'm curious what Boyd will have to say about this. Well, he could say that the 747Adv's greater pavement loading, and its longer turning ra
33 Post contains links Leskova : And where is the $20b or so going to come from (787+747)? Now if they were to abide by the 1992 WTO Agreement they could get 33% from the government.
34 Post contains links and images Kalakaua : Check out Randy's website blog journal... whatever you call it! http://www.boeing.com/randy/
35 DL021 : Greaser....I don't believe B can humidify the cabin any more than is now the norm. The reason they can improve the environment on the 787 is the compo
36 Gigneil : You ARE right, the 2 significant advances will be engine tech.. But, I believe a new wing will be given to the 747, along with a humid-er cabin and th
37 ZRH : I like the B 747. But is it really a wise decision to modify a 40 year old airliner? Can it compete with a brand new aircraft like the A 380 (though t
38 DAYflyer : If Boeing can bridge the gap of actual operating costs to the A380... Than just maybe, there are more airliners that would opt for the 747ADV than th
39 Art : I go along with Gignell - new engines, updated cockpit. Cheap update. If development costs were kept to a minimum, few sales would be needed to recove
40 BoeingBus : Gigneil, How can you be so sure with your responses? where are your sources? and please no articles from the media as its all hearsay. Boesing hasn't
41 Gigneil : Flight International, among other reputable sources, has covered this. In detail. We know what's being offered to the airlines. N
42 Bicoastal : I wonder if Boeing is motivated by the rumors that Airbus will help United with bankruptcy exit financing in return for an order for jets to replace t
43 Gigneil : I doubt it has anything to do with it. Firstly, there's been no discussion really of that since 2003. No news reports or viable media have brought it
44 Dynkrisolo : Boeing silently adjusted it's market forecast for the next 20 years for 747 and larger aircraft from 533 to 790 now, up nearly 50% in 1 year. That's
45 Post contains links Revelation : In the Randy's Blog http://www.boeing.com/randy/ link, it's totally clear as to what is being offered: What's advanced about it? Well, the breakthroug
46 Post contains links BlackKnight : Ok I'll play along with those that think they know what is up Boeing sleeves. The article below in .pdf format list some interest facts or claims as s
47 N1120A : >How many units would need to be sold to recover the development cost?< Well, Airbus has stated something like 250 (correct me if I am wrong Neil) for
48 JDD1 : Zvezda, Boeing already discovered in 1998 that a minimum change -500 was not what the airlines wanted. The ADV would still have mostly 1960s designed
49 Art : Re: post 46 Ok how is Boeing going to accomplish these claims as presented to the airlines if things are the same old 747-400? By magic or by spending
50 Keesje : Boeing 2004: Outlook new deliveries, large twins, 2004-2023 : 533 Baseler now promoting the 747adv : the market for 747/A380-size aircraft remains ext
51 Zvezda : The big difference between the B747-500X and the B747Adv is the new engines. That's the primary source of the lower operating costs and increased rang
52 Post contains links Art : "Consuming 14 percent less fuel per passenger than the A380, the 747 Advanced ..." Source: http://www.boeing.com/randy/pdf/747AdvCard.pdf Is it possib
53 Dynkrisolo : Boeing 2004: Outlook new deliveries, large twins, 2004-2023 : 533 Baseler now promoting the 747adv : the market for 747/A380-size aircraft remains ex
54 Thrust : WAY TO GO BOEING! Long live the 747, the world's most beautiful jumbo. Maybe the 747 will eventually become a superjumbo after all. I am hoping that i
55 Ken777 : My money is on the 747 ADV being approved and a somewhat slow trickle of orders, but a continuous flow of orders over time. While I have long thought
56 777236ER : That is NOT going to happen. There is NOT going to be a new wing, and the more humid cabin has to do with the 787 being composite. I don't see why the
57 MD-90 : Does the 747 NEED a new wing? It sure helped the 737NG line to have a more advanced, larger wing with greater lift and additional fuel capacity, but h
58 Lehpron : Well yeah, the niche exists now due to the A380 creating a gap. It will be successful as long as carriers need things in that gap until they need more
59 Boeing Nut : The 747ADV won't get a new wing because it won't need it. It's still an excellent design and with the super efficiancy of the 787 engines, the 747ADV
60 Post contains images 777ER : The B744 won't have any winglets . The B744ADV will have 787 technology
61 Post contains links B2707SST : don't see why the 747ADV wouldn't get a new wing. Almost certainly it'll get the trademark raked winglets. This is probably the same "recontoured" wi
62 Boeing Nut : I've seen no info that the 747ADV will be utilizing the previously unusable space above the main cabin. Anyone have info on this?
63 Post contains images Lehpron : >>"And since Boeing has already desgned this for the SP, this should be easy to do"
64 Gigneil : I don't see why the 747ADV wouldn't get a new wing. Almost certainly it'll get the trademark raked winglets. A new wing would cost $5b. They tried thi
65 Post contains links Boeing Nut : Another thing I am wondering is why the two diferent stretches? 11 ft for the passenger version and 17 ft for ther freighter version. Freighter: http:
66 B2707SST : Boeing Nut: It's because the 747ADV pax version stretches both the main deck and the upper deck forward of the wing. The freighter (without the stretc
67 SWACLE : Boeing Nut: Possibally for weight and balance purposes due to the lack of the larger upper deck? DC
68 N1120A : >Ok how is Boeing going to accomplish these claims as presented to the airlines if things are the same old 747-400?Another thing I am wondering is why
69 Boeing7E7 : I'd rather the money be spent on a 737-E. It just makes more sense. Sorry folks. I love the 74 as much as anyone, but you have to be realistic.
70 Iwok : "Consuming 14 percent less fuel per passenger than the A380, the 747 Advanced ..." Source: http://www.boeing.com/randy/pdf/747AdvCard.pdf Is it possib
71 N1120A : >I'd rather the money be spent on a 737-E. It just makes more sense.I think the A380 is also using modified 787 engines,
72 Atmx2000 : The A380 is not using the 787 engines. The 787 engines were a gleam in their designers eye when the A380 was launched.
73 Boeing7E7 : You actually think they would spend money on this if it meant they would not develop a 737 successor? You have got to be kidding me. No, but the repla
74 AirportGal : Well, he could say that the 747Adv's greater pavement loading, and its longer turning radius, might require runway and taxiway upgrades that airport o
75 Lightsaber : I admit to being half enthusiastic and half dismissive of the 747adv. Some points where efficiency is being gained: 1. Computers. Pull out the circa 1
76 MD-90 : I always liked this part best from the article that is now archived on google. Gillette said the 22% larger wing of the 747X has provided the lift req
77 Post contains images Lightsaber : MD-90: Thanks for the reminder! I thought the overhead berths were disallowed for pax due to evacuation rules; I'd love to be wrong on this. 100 food
78 Joni : Happy to see Boeing is confident of the program launch, just as they were with the Sonic Cruiser and 747X. And I'm not impugning their integrity, they
79 JumboJim747 : Im happy to see the 747 given a new lease of life . Hope she stays in production for some time to come.
80 Eg777er : If you put more weight (above cabin amenities, fuse stretch) onto the existing wing, it'll be too noisy and won't meet QC2 at LHR - so bang goes your
81 Post contains links Widebodyphotog : Oh good grief people... The 747 is a two year old product development study that never came into being. This is what the 747ADV will be and I hope it
82 Boeing7E7 : In case anyone is wondering, the target fuel burn is 3,140GPH vs the -400's 3,335 with 50 more pax. Or...7 gal/pax/hr vs. 8.02 current average.
83 Art : I'm getting confused about 747ADV fuel consumption here: "The economic fuel consumption of the A380 - around 13 per cent lower fuel burn than its clos
84 Boeing7E7 : Sorry if I'm being dumb, but these figures have got a problem. Can someone enlighten me, please? The numbers I provided is a two year average of repor
85 Rj111 : In a two year analysis by NW and UA aren't the payloads going to vary considerably.
86 Boeing7E7 : In a two year analysis by NW and UA aren't the payloads going to vary considerably. As will the real world payloads of the ADV. Something is wrong in
87 Zvezda : Widebodyphotog, your link doesn't work for me. Is it working for anyone else?
88 Post contains links Widebodyphotog : Sorry about the link, I don't have a file server that can handle the volume although this may last for a while. http://www.geocities.com/airlinerimage
89 777236ER : There is not going to be a new wing. There will be tweaks. An updated wing is a new wing. The 737NG had a new wing. The A330 got a new wing. The 747-4
90 DfwRevolution : An updated wing is a new wing. The 737NG had a new wing. The A330 got a new wing. The 747-400 got a new wing. The 747ADV will get a new wing. That's a
91 BoeingBus : so the question of the day... What consitutes a new wing? The general shape of the wing for the most part hasn't changed... but it definetly has evolv
92 777gk : I for one am most excited to see the return of the spiral staircase! It was such an icon, and, along with the "hump", was a defining characteristic of
93 Post contains images Boeing7E7 : Sorry about the link, I don't have a file server that can handle the volume although this may last for a while. Linky still sucky. Actually, the blog
94 N1120A : >777 raked tip design...it'll be too noisy and won't meet QC2 at LHR - so bang goes your BA, SQ, CX sale.The engines will be adapted from the 787 powe
95 Post contains images Gigneil : The wing modifications will be comprised of raked wing tips for an increased span of 225ft 3in, a "trailing edge wedge" similar to what was incorporat
96 VivaGunners : All I can say for the moment is that I hope the 747ADV will really arrive, because, as B seems to have noticed, there will be market for it in 3-5 yea
97 777236ER : We're looking at least at a variant I never said we weren't, I said the 747ADV won't use bleedless engines. A new wing is an updated wing, but not vic
98 BoeingBus : 777236ER Your'e right on! Gigneil, step off the Airbus soapbox... and just stick with the facts and some common sense would be good too!
99 Gigneil : I said the 747ADV won't use bleedless engines. You and EVERYBODY ELSE BEFORE YOU. The first sentence makes no sense. Um, of course it does. There will
100 Art : May I propose a sentence that might placate those involved in the new/updated terminological debate: The 747ADV will have a different wing. I never wa
101 Post contains images Zvezda : Gigneil wrote: "That's like saying that a new coat of paint and new carpet means I have a new house." Excellent analogy! Welcome to my respected users
102 777236ER : Gigneil, it's like saying an extension, new electrics, new boiler, new room and new decoration in every room means you have a new house - you do. Let'
103 Gigneil : Lets agree to disagree. But we can agree that the 747 ADV will not be the same as the 747-400. N
104 777236ER : But we can agree that the 747 ADV will not be the same as the 747-400. I said it will be the same step up from the 400 as the 400 took up from the 200
105 Post contains images Gigneil : Sorry, that I don't agree with. It will be far, far less. I guess its back to agreeing to disagree. Why don't we bet a pint on it? N
106 777236ER : Both the 747-400 and the 747ADV got/will get: updated engines (in fact, you can argue the 747ADV are more of a step up than the -400 engines were), up
107 Zvezda : I think the difference between the B747-300 and the B747-400 is considerably greater than the difference between the B747-400 and the B747Adv. I think
108 Gigneil : The 747 Advanced is not getting new systems, not getting a root change, not getting composites anywhere they aren't presently. Its a minimum cost chan
109 777236ER : The 747 Advanced is not getting new systems, not getting a root change, not getting composites anywhere they aren't presently. Its a minimum cost chan
110 Lehpron : >>"Don't forget how many of the runways in the US were built to the "1 million pound" standard but were derated to 950,000 lbm max plane weight due to
111 Zvezda : 777236ER, I think at that point it would be much wiser to abandon the B747 design altogether and start with a clean sheet of paper. I think Boeing wou
112 777236ER : 777236ER, I think at that point it would be much wiser to abandon the B747 design altogether and start with a clean sheet of paper. I think Boeing wou
113 BoeingBus : Again Gigneil... how can you be so sure? Have you heard how much Boeing is willing to spend and it's at your minimum? are you getting the inside scoop
114 Zvezda : New wing. Not to mention some other non-trivial things like upper deck doors including escape chutes, rafts, etc.
115 F4N : To all: I believe that Boeing will launch this a/c as advertised; I think that they have drummed up enough interest from current 747 operators (most l
116 Gigneil : you have every right to disagree, but you can't be so sure with your guess either... I'm not guessing. I know what's being offered to the airlines. I
117 Art : I'm not being facetious but I am guessing since I don't know much. I guess that Boeing would do well to offer the absolute minimum enhancements suffic
118 BoeingBus : I'm not guessing. I know what's being offered to the airlines. I actually read aviation news, not just a.net." What's currently being offered to the a
119 Sammyk : How do you know it's impossible?
120 BoeingBus : well, the current 744 does not meet QC2 - so Boeing needs to modify both the wing and use newer 787 type engines to meet that spec.
121 Gigneil : Sigh. Boeing IS modifying the flaps. The flaps are what cause the noise that doesn't meet QC2. Its NO problem. They were already going to be doing tha
122 CX747 : I'm amazed that certain members continue to downplay the possible 747Adv as nothing more than a warmed over 747-400. So the aircraft is not a TOTALLY
123 Amy : I have to agree with CX747. The 747ADV will have significant updates that will (hopefully) carry on it's usefulness just as they did with the 737NG, a
124 Post contains links and images B2707SST : Boeing will likely also employ a new engine cowling and nozzle design that was first proposed for the 747-400XQLR, which uses scalloped surfaces to br
125 AvObserver : All of this speculation on how actually "advanced", the 747 Adv. turns out to be is largely fruitless until if and when BCA commits it to production.
126 JDD1 : All this 747ADV talk is just that....talk. It is Boeing doing what they are very good at, launching a smokescreen, this time to cause possible A380 cu
127 NumberTwelve : Am a little confused - yesterday on n.tv (German cnn partner) was informing that Boeing is thinking about to stop producing the 747 if there are only
128 PVG : Here's a question for the knowledgeable: If Boeing went ahead and made the investment in designing and building a substantially new aircraft using as
129 Zvezda : PVG, Boeing could do this, but it wouldn't be a B747 anymore. Someday they surely will do this. When depends in large part on whether or not the B747A
130 Widebodyphotog : All this 747ADV talk is just that....talk. It is Boeing doing what they are very good at, launching a smokescreen, this time to cause possible A380 cu
131 Trex8 : will they just use off the shelf 787 engines and derate them or try get GE and RR to develop a lower thrust version of these new engines??
132 Zvezda : The B747Adv engines will definitely not be off-the-shelf B787 engines and will not be fungible between the aircraft types. The reason is that the B787
133 JDD1 : Widebodyphotog The US and European authorities cannot continue certificating derivatives under 60 year old grandfather rights. For example the 747ADV
134 Post contains images DfwRevolution : You wouldn't knowingly allow your children to go to school on a bus with a 1960s chassis and braking performance. Why do you wish this on the blissful
135 JDD1 : DfwRevolution Reply 134 So I suppose the A330, A340, 737NG, and probably the A350 should not be certified? I don't follow your line of thinking. Howev
136 Widebodyphotog : You wouldn't knowingly allow your children to go to school on a bus with a 1960s chassis and braking performance. Why do you wish this on the blissful
137 N1120A : >will they just use off the shelf 787 engines and derate them or try get GE and RR to develop a lower thrust version of these new engines??< Given the
138 OldAeroGuy : The 737NG Cert. basis was updated in the '90's to essentially the latest standard. A few Exemptions were granted, but nothing exceptional. All Exempti
139 JDD1 : Widebodyphotog I agree whole heartedly that the 747is airworthy and equally have no hesitation in flying in one. if the 747-400 is airworthy a 747ADV
140 Gigneil : will they just use off the shelf 787 engines and derate them or try get GE and RR to develop a lower thrust version of these new engines?? Not only wi
141 Zvezda : N1120A wrote: "Given the relative size, if you look at the 767/744 relationship now, you will see that the engines are the same with the same thrust l
142 Art : Zvezda I am aware of the one engine out takeoff standard. Are twins inherently over-powered and less economical on fuel than quads?
143 DfwRevolution : Are twins inherently over-powered and less economical on fuel than quads? Overpowered- Somewhat, though not necessarily. Uneconomical- Not at all. Twi
144 Zvezda : Art wrote: "Are twins inherently over-powered and less economical on fuel than quads?" That was the theory for long distances. That's why Airbus put f
145 Art : DfwRevolution wrote: Twins have more than proven their economic value over quads of the same size... Zvezda wrote: However, the B777 (especially) has
146 Zvezda : A twin the size of the A380 would have needed engines with at least 150K lbs of thrust. The development cost for such a small number of engines would
147 Art : Zvezda Thanks. I was just being curious. Prohibitive development costs set against projected sales makes sense to me.
148 PVG : I think that the question of the worthiness of the airliner certification process can be answered by the fact the out of thousands and thousands of da
149 OldAeroGuy : JDD1, Just because an airplane hasn't stepped up to the latest set of regs., doesn't mean that it is less airworthy than one that has been designed to
150 KC135TopBoom : Well, this has been an interesting thread. Now where do I begin? I'll start with the runways. The FAA design standard for the 1 million lb runway stre
151 Widebodyphotog : The 744 is not tall enough to accomodate the 112" engines, nor is the wing strong enough to support their weight. Actually the 112 inch fan GEnX and T
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