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Seat Recline In Y Should Be Eliminated In US  
User currently offlineFlybyguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1801 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7329 times:

In the age of low fares on the majors... the legacies simply pack in more seats (i.e. AA's Less Room Througout Coach 31" or less policy) to compete with airlines like jetBlue. So one is never refreshed after a 6 hour flight in coach. Instead one is usually in a great deal of pain and discomfort especially when the person in-front of you decides to recline. It gets worse when you are at a bulk head seat. The person in front of you can recline all the way and you cannot so you are forced to have some guy's head on your lap for the duration of the flight.

The recline angles aren't even good enough for personal comfort anyway. It is cruel and unusual punishment when seat pitch is 30" or less to have someone recline on you. Jetblue seems to have a minimum pitch of 32" with a maximum of 34" behind the overwing exit rows so recline is certainly allowable under those conditions.

I think newer aircraft on U.S. legacies flying to Europe and Asia probably have better than 30" pitch in Y.

Before anyone says that you get what you pay for, I say that flying the majors on average cost 2X as much (and sometimes more) as flying LCCs to the same destinations. Yet the legacies miss the mark when it comes to value. Why pay 2X as much for a cramped, dilapidated seat, a 75 cent bag of pretzels and half a can of coke when you can fly jetBlue for the same 75 cent snack and a FULL can of coke with 34" pitch, and much better entertainment options for less than a legacy. The legacies miss the mark yet again. They should note that product VALUE is important too. I would pay more than a legacy's price for the kind value jetBlue offers.

It seems to me that the only reason why the traveling public endures the manure heap that is legacy Y service is for the FF miles for upgrades to humane classes of service and a wider selection destinations*.


Comments are welcome.

*Edit to include wider variety of destinations on legacies.

[Edited 2005-02-11 10:00:20]


"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7271 times:

Here's a bit of advice: move to Europe and use Ryanair for your travel needs.  Smile

I'll stick with my FF program, thanks.

Aaron G.


User currently offlineFA4B6 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7258 times:

this country has so many choices and options ... im sure there is something out there that suits your needs.

User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13551 posts, RR: 100
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7198 times:
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Actually, if US were to truly go LCC, this could be an option. If not them, one airline should take the absolute "cheapskate" route and offer the bare minimum for a low fare. While one is at it, go Ryanair and charge for the coke and pretzels. Would I fly this airline? For one or two hour hops, sure! LAX-JFK, shoot me first.

I do agree, my last flight on less room throughout coach left me unimpressed (Exclude the pilot from critisism, he went the extra yard to let the passengers know their business was appreciated).

Trvir, I think you were sticking with a frequent flier program. Its too late for Tower air (FF).  Nuts

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineSevenair From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 1728 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7166 times:

yeah, my 2hr EZY flight the other day (on a 'normal row' - ie not the front, back, exit bulkhead row) had as much legspace as my UA flights LON-ORD, a flight which is 4 times as long  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7067 times:

The problem isn't the recline, it's the pitch. Deal with the pitch and you won't have the recline problem.

User currently offlineBhxforever From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 564 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6956 times:

Just think yourself lucky...the charter airlines in the UK only have pitch of around 27-28",think of the pain when someone reclines their seat!

User currently offlineMoMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1054 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6886 times:

I was on UA once and the guy in front of my slammed his seat back all the way, which busted the screen on my laptop. (cost my company $800 to fix it) I was fuming! I made him put his seat back up after a brief "exchange".

Any stories? I think a once notch recline is more than enough to be comfortable.

Moman



AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
User currently offline1MillionFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6832 times:

FLYBYGUY

the seat pitch is 31 to 32 inches on average on all US carriers not 30 inches.

Wn and F9 are 33 inches. AA is going back to 32 from 35 this is just back to "same room in coach" not less room.


User currently offlineDsuairptman From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 904 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6814 times:

How would you fell after sitting in coach on a cross country flight without the ability to lean back and recline. A stiff body, jetlagged, and pissed off at the airline. I'll take Y w/ seat recline, thanks.


GEAUX SAINTS!
User currently offlineNYCFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1388 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6794 times:

I hate it when people put their seats back. Yes, I know it's their "right" to do so, but it's also very selfish. Same thing on buses. As a courtesy, I always turn around and say to the person behind me, "Mind if I put my seat back?" and they always say yes, it's just polite. But I rarely put my seat back, just because I know how annoying it is to have someone's seat in my face.

And as someone else said, the seats don't recline enough to be comfortable.


User currently offlineSpike From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1170 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6768 times:

We'll all be sitting in brace position soon enough to ensure safety against... well, anything. Imagine that, four hours smelling someone's bum in -35" pitch.



User currently offlineSelcalcheckok From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6731 times:

Unfortunately most can not recline in front of me, while I am a "larger" gentleman my knees against the back of the seat dont allow for it.

Usually they think their seat is broken, which is comedic in itself.

ck


User currently offlineSpike From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1170 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6714 times:

I would ask the lard arse to change places with me in this situation.

User currently offlineSelcalCheckOK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6678 times:

doubt it would happen.

ck


User currently offlineANNOYEDFA From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 451 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6587 times:

Right and speaking about the "Value and Class" of those LCC'S I don't exactly see them flocking to all the small no money markets that majors fly to. Compair Jetblue's or any other LCC'S route map to say um any major and that's why they are making money.....I can get to maybe 25 places in the world in Jetblue but I can get anywhere in the world on a major! Oh and Moman you should be more careful it was your own fault that happened and I would of left my seat reclined.... People pay for that small option.


"TWA... One Mission, Yours."
User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12284 posts, RR: 35
Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6487 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

AnnoyedFA, how was it his own fault? He can't use the tray table to work on his laptop in case the guy in front decides to slam his seat back? If you really are an F/A, I hope I never will be on a flight of yours.


“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 33
Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6383 times:

He can't use the tray table to work on his laptop in case the guy in front decides to slam his seat back? If you really are an F/A, I hope I never will be on a flight of yours.

If the laptop usage is essential, he should fly in a premium cabin in case it's not possible in Y. I don't get it how people complain about reclining the seats - I buy a reclining seat and will sure as hell recline it. Try those Ryanair lovely yellow seats - truly a horrible experience.

Why don't they just install benches in cattle class with no backrest?  Insane



Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6341 times:

"I was on UA once and the guy in front of my slammed his seat back all the way, which busted the screen on my laptop. (cost my company $800 to fix it) I was fuming! I made him put his seat back up after a brief "exchange"."

The problem: You have the right to use your laptop while flying. The guy in front of you has also the right ot put back his seat. Your laptop's screen was busted. Reparation cost: $800.

The solution: Your company may pay for a biz or first class ticket next time. Otherwise, try to change [or exchange] your seat with nobody in front of you, or simply avoid the use of your laptop on board.


User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6319 times:

I like my little reclining seat in Y class, thank you. In this day of slow to no service, a little recline in coach on a 3 hour flight is a welcome relief with the lousy cramped seats.

Go buy a ticket in Business or First up front and let us poor pukes in coach have a little something....even if it is only a 4" recline in the cattle car section.



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6291 times:

I nearly died the other day when I got into an F9 319 in the non-recline row in front of the exit.

I forgot just how much I loved to be able to recline.

N


User currently offlineMoMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1054 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6287 times:

The solution: Your company may pay for a biz or first class ticket next time. Otherwise, try to change [or exchange] your seat with nobody in front of you, or simply avoid the use of your laptop on board.

I wish I had been in the front of the plane, I can't change that my old company was cheap and wouldn't pay for a good seat. It's also hard to change seats when the plane is completely booked.

AnnoyedFA, thanks for the support. You would too have moved your seat back up; this guy did without a word when he saw how mad I was  Smile/happy/getting dizzy He paid me back by letting his baby scream the entire flight.

The problem was the guy slammed back his seat without giving me any chance to move my laptop. That was what upset me. He does have a right to recline his seat, but when his "right to recline" interferes with my "right to enjoy the flight" I do have a problem. Should you get to exercise your "right to smoke" on a plane which means I can't exercise my "right to have clean air?" Common courtesy is expected and appreciated.

I am much more careful now and generally fly AA with MRTC (but not much longer).

Moman



AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6238 times:

"The problem was the guy slammed back his seat without giving me any chance to move my laptop. That was what upset me. He does have a right to recline his seat, but when his "right to recline" interferes with my "right to enjoy the flight" I do have a problem. Should you get to exercise your "right to smoke" on a plane which means I can't exercise my "right to have clean air?" Common courtesy is expected and appreciated."

I have one doubt. When so said "slammed back his seat" are you meaning "roughly"? With the intention of broke your computer?

Usually a passenger don't ask for permission to recline their seat.



User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5310 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6202 times:

My understanding is that AA has the old pitch, 31" on the 757s and the A300s. On the rest of the fleet, only 1 row of coach is being put back in the aircraft, so the pitch should be 32.5" to 33". Not as nice as 34" to 35", but better than the cattle-car days before MRTC was implemented.

Here's my problem with seat recline. It always happens that whenever I read a broadsheet newspaper, the person in front of me reclines the seat all the way. Now, I do fold up the paper when reading and eating breakfast or lunch at home. But that's because I have to space to unfold and refold.

I don't have that much personal space on a plane, particularly if I have the window seat. So, reading a broadsheet becomes a pain.



User currently offlineMoMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1054 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6198 times:

I do not believe the guy had the intention of breaking my computer. He slammed his seat back quickly, which is probably common (especially with kids), but I try to go slowly to give the person behind me a chance to move their paper, etc.

If I had a half-full glass of water on the tray it would have been knocked over.

Moman



AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
25 LTBEWR : The best answer as to when tigher pitch seats (33" or less) is to limit the amount one could recline the seat back. Usually a notch or 2 (1-2 inches o
26 Flyabunch : I have somewhat mixed emotions on this issue. First, I like to lean back on longer flights. Two, I fly red-eye's farily often and reclining is mandato
27 Warszawa : " Common courtesy is expected and appreciated. " 100% With you on this one. I cant stand arrogant idiots who fully recline their seat in front of me o
28 Jetstar : I have noticed since I started flying AA after the TW merger that the seat recline is less than TW’s, I would say they recline about half the distan
29 Sllevin : Coach is bad enough with recline. Without it would be really bad. I'd rather have wider seats any day. My shoulders from edge to edge are way more tha
30 Notbluejet : there will never be and end to this topic. IMO this is not an issue with the seats, the pitch, the airline. The biggest issue is THE PEOPLE. If people
31 Bobster2 : The solution is so simple. Design the seat to recline by moving the bottom forward instead of by moving the top back. People with short legs can recli
32 Brons2 : I support the author of this thread. I'm 6'7" and if you recline on me, you're crushing my knees.
33 Post contains images Lightsaber : Bhxforever, 28" inch pitch?!? Can anyone tell me if that's legal in the USA? Ckfred, interesting tidbits on the AA pitches; I was on a 757.
34 September11 : Most flight attendants probably want seat recline be eliminated -- so many passengers forget that their seats are reclined and that flight attendants
35 Ouboy79 : Are the couple inches of reclining really that important? Really all they need to do is redesign the seats to be more supportive of the back and then
36 FA4B6 : I support the author of this thread. I'm 6'7" and if you recline on me, you're crushing my knees. So why should someone else suffer because youre tall
37 IslipWN : Moman, I highly doubt that the man in front of you really slammed the seat back quickly. Don't get me wrong, I know that it can be annoying, however,
38 BoeingATL : FA4B6 in your words "SOL" So of you're a midget, paying the same fare as someone 6'7, would you be comfortable flying in baggage? Same schedule, proba
39 Aa757first : Most flight attendants probably want seat recline be eliminated -- so many passengers forget that their seats are reclined and that flight attendants
40 MoMan : Islip, I actually had the laptop on my lap. When he brought the seat back quickly, he hit the top of the screen and jammed it down, causing it to flex
41 Flick70 : For all those that commented that laptop users should either upgrade to Biz or leave them off...that makes no sense. Airlines cater to the business fl
42 Lightsaber : Flick70, One question, How would your design survive the required 9G impact loading? I'm missing something in the structure... (Note, I'm asking, not
43 JAXFL : I just love the way Martinair flight attendents handeling this situation.Everytime serving meal or drink,they make people recline back give room to ea
44 Iwok : What is the point of having a "reclining seat" and a "table" if you cannot use them. The main problem is the seat pitch, and I propose the following s
45 Nosedive : So why should someone else suffer because youre tall? You know what youre in for when you fly and if you cant fly 1st, biz, in exit row or bulk head,
46 B707Stu : I've had lousy reclining experiences on just about every carrier. But don't take my capacity to recline away. Add a couple inches between seats, perio
47 SLC1 : I have never used recline (ever), I always figure it too rude to the person behind me, maybe I'm just too nice a person. And I'm 6'2", but I guess I j
48 BAW716 : FlybyGuy, Welcome to America. The land of the free and the home of the free market economy. The reason that you are getting the kind of treatment you
49 Flybyguy : How could anyone say that tall people should either buy biz or first class seats or stay grounded? I think that is quite arrogant. Certainly common co
50 David L : So, some people think they've paid for the right to recline their seats? Just because you've paid for a ticket and the seat reclines doesn't necessari
51 TACAA320 : "So, some people think they've paid for the right to recline their seats? Just because you've paid for a ticket and the seat reclines doesn't necessar
52 The Coachman : Bobster2, EK's A345 seats on recline do actually move the seat bottom forward. It's a good way of doing things and it does work.
53 Flyabunch : Seats can indeed go back fast enough to damage laptops or spill drinks. If someone pushes the button and leans back with all their weight at the same
54 David L : TACAA320: If you don't think "right" is legally related, use a dictionary. "Right" is most definitely legally related. According to your reasoning, if
55 Post contains images Bhxforever : Lightsaber, well the legal minimum over here is 26". So maybe they are actually being quite generous with 27-28"??
56 David L : TACAA320: OK, I see you're a lawyer. Well, I guess the law in the Costa Rica is quite different to the law in the UK! Here, just because something can
57 TACAA320 : "TACAA320: OK, I see you're a lawyer. Well, I guess the law in the Costa Rica is quite different to the law in the UK! Here, just because something ca
58 TACAA320 : "If you don't think "right" is legally related, use a dictionary. "Right" is most definitely legally related. According to your reasoning, if the seat
59 Post contains images David L : TACAA320: Fair enough . No offence, but I don't really travel to Costa Rica very often... well, never, actually - I can't go everywhere! But I still d
60 TACAA320 : DavidL No problem at all. We are here to share experiences, knowledge, even to discuss in a civilized manner as you do. Take care. Thanks.
61 777STL : "So why should someone else suffer because youre tall? You know what youre in for when you fly and if you cant fly 1st, biz, in exit row or bulk head,
62 Flick70 : Flick70, One question, How would your design survive the required 9G impact loading? I'm missing something in the structure... (Note, I'm asking, not
63 David L : Incidentally, I'm not tall, I'm pretty average (in every way) but I can understand that a tall person's going to knock the back of my seat from time t
64 Post contains images Lightsaber : Bhxforever Lightsaber, well the legal minimum over here is 26" Ow! As I'm 6' 0" tall (what's that, 185 cm?) a 26" pitch sounds painful. Stop! Personal
65 Indy : Can anyone point out an airline/aircraft that has a pitch of less than 30"?
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