UnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 9651 times:
It Happened to RG too a few years ago. From what I hear from the RG repo's they arrive at the city where the aircraft is ready to depart from with federal marshals and pilots who work for the leasing company. After everyone has got off the aircraft the marshals serve the papers and take possession of the aircraft. I cannot imagine the sitting in the gate and having the aircraft repo'ed. What dose the gate agent say. "unfortunately we have to cancel...our aircraft was just repossessed?!"
I'm not a fan of Independence Air at all. Management is cocky and the shareholders have been screwed by them. I hope they go back to being a United Express carrier and making money again....with new management.
ANNOYEDFA From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 451 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 9492 times:
AVEK00: Get real..... UAL is barely still a full service carrier and at the rate their still losing money and can't even emerge Chapter 11 they should be worried if their going to be around to keep their "colony". Maybe when another company tries to reposess UAL'S aircraft like they did a few months but a judge blocked it, it will be airbus that FLYi can use..... *Sigh*
Phatfarmlines From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1333 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 9311 times:
United Airlines is taking a particularly big hit from not hedging. The Chicago-based carrier, which filed for federal bankruptcy court protection in December 2002, has been able to restructure more easily in Chapter 11, but is prevented by law from hedging while still in bankruptcy.
As far as DH is concerned, I think the lessor has a right to do the repossession. DH has been very quiet about releasing 4th qtr. financials, and such information is needed by lessor to determine if DH will be a going concern or not. Holding back info, especially from a publicly-trading company, is not good IMO.
Avek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4236 posts, RR: 19 Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 9292 times:
"Maybe when another company tries to reposess UAL'S aircraft like they did a few months but a judge blocked it, it will be airbus that FLYi can use..."
With respect, it is YOU who needs to get real about Indy Air's situation - the airline was doomed from the start by using high-CASM aircraft for a LOW FARE operation, and still records sh*tty loads with even sh*ttier yields despite offering its tickets through conventional point of sale channels.
Cactus739 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2412 posts, RR: 32 Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 9174 times:
So is this thread about Indy or United?
I have a question for Tristar though... . United lost $493 million in the 4th quarter, $308 million of that was because of fuel. That leaves $185 million that they lost, not counting fuel. You bragged about their record high load factors and performance.... my question is: So? Flying full planes and landing on time means nothing if you lose a ton of money in the process.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26005 posts, RR: 78 Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9059 times:
>It won't be long before the "Independence" rebellion at Dulles is finally put down, and IAD goes back to its rightful place as a colony for a full-service legacy airline... <
Well, except for that pesky guerilla jetBlue.
>It says that UA is not hedging fuel, and that it isn't allowed to in bankruptcy by law.<
UA stated in their earnings statement that they did have a minor hedge along the lines of $40 a barrel, and that is only for about 20% of their usage
>I've seen cars reposessed.... but how do you reposess a CRJ?<
Since no one answered that, I will. Basically, the "key" to an airplane, at least a legitimate one, is its MX log. If you pull that log from the plane, it is not supposed to go anywhere. After taking the log, the marshalls (In the US, Federal Marshalls always do this) lock the plane until it can be taken to the leasing company or bank's facility
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Newark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 31 Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9028 times:
I saw a show on repo men on the Discovery Channel once, and they had to repossess a private plane. They actually just went to the airport, started the plane up, and flew off with it. Of course, in this case you are talking about an airline, and not a private citizen who might fly off and hide before authorities get there.
AA717driver From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1566 posts, RR: 13 Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9008 times:
Tristar--Please do not call the posters on this board ignorant. We have all observed this business from inside and outside for a long time.
Are we ingorant for not believing that UAL is simply biding its time in Ch.11, waiting to pounce on the other unsuspecting carriers out there? SWA is using hedging to make a decent profit. UAL's hedging (whatever that may be) is keeping it from sustaining even more massive losses?
Lessors who are losing valuable leasing opportunities for their aircraft will be hard pressed to continue their relationship with UAL.
To say that UAL is a "force to be reckoned with" is like predicting a patient in the Intensive Care Unit will bolt from their bed and join the Super Bowl in progress.
Stating that UAL "may survive" is about as optimistic as anyone here dares to be.TC
25 1MillionFlyer: I used to run a company that had a Lear 35 financed by Boeing Leasing. It takes 3 payments to get a plane repo'd usually according to the standard con
26 JetBluefan1: Speaking of FlyI, does anyone know when they're going to report their 4Q04 results? JetBlue, which usually reports profits last out of any other US ca
27 SLUAviator: The reason the judge blocked the repo of the UA planes is that it would have crippled UA internationally (tried to take their 767s back). He decided t
28 1MillionFlyer: oh you still have to pay for it. and the lawyer fees, etc etc. Where banks are concerned, you always pay beleive me. I hope they make it.
29 RCS763AV: When the Avianca crisis (99´ or 00´) a representative from the Swiss lessor of the Fokker-50s came to Bogota to take the 10 of them all. Fortunately
30 Burnsie28: 73 FlyI jets, 73 FlyI jets, repossess one, 72 FlyI jets left..... Keep singing fellas, well get to none Next repossesion- CRJ and A319! As for FlyI ch
31 Lightsaber: ERJ170, I laughed so hard, so the MD-11 is the equivalent of a flying crown vic? But officer, my registration is in the cargo hold... JC2354: Many sma
32 PlaneSmart: Commercial aircraft leasing contracts are rather more comprehensive than GA. For example, there are 'trigger' events that set off a series of steps th
33 777WT: The only airline I know hedged fuel costs is Southwest.
34 Lightsaber: Planesmart: Good post. Welcome to my respected users list. Oh, its not for that post alone, your overall maturity. I've noticed you pipe in quickly wh
35 Iowaman: The only airline I know hedged fuel costs is Southwest. FL hedges and I could but wrong but I believe B6 does also.
36 IslipWN: N634BR is the plane that I flew on! IAD-ORF. That's so weird to think that a plane you were just on a few weeks ago has been repossessed! Michelle Qua
37 FriendlySkies: If you read UA's yearly financial report, it mentions that they hedged 20% of their 2005 fuel needs. There's a post somewhere on a.net about it (not d
38 Avek00: "Aside from how ugly it looks, it may actually be a blessing (don't have to pay for it now)." Far from it - a default on obligations to one creditor/l
39 A330323X: It says that UA is not hedging fuel, and that it isn't allowed to in bankruptcy by law. Unless you believe the law has changed, that's directly releva
40 ANNOYEDFA: I don't care how crippled they would of been... If they can't pay for it the lessor should have every right to repo it.
41 PlaneSmart: Avek00 "Aside from how ugly it looks, it may actually be a blessing (don't have to pay for it now)." 'Far from it - a default on obligations to one cr
42 N1120A: >The only airline I know hedged fuel costs is Southwest.I don't care how crippled they would of been...If they can't pay for it the lessor should have
43 Uadc8contrail: Time to get kerry to break out the FLYI experience again in order to get the troops to drink more kool-aid..anyone from indy in here knows what im tal
44 FSPilot747: I dauno I always thought FlyI was a joke to begin with. Didn't see it lasting more than a year with their CASM figures. FSP
45 Sllevin: Just to elaborate slightly on Planesmart's post... the "trigger" events are referred to as "convenants." Available cash is perhaps THE most common cov
46 1MillionFlyer: This then leads to either a Default or technical default of the agreement. Many times when a default occurs, it allows the lessor to increase lease ra
47 RDUDDJI: N634BR is in the air right this second flying revenue for IDE. So obviously someone is mistaken (at least about the tail number). P.S. IIRC UA almost
48 UALPHLCS: When ever there is an INdy Air thread there are those who want to turn it into a UA bashing thread. It's not surprising considering the history of Ind
49 ERJ170: Now comparing UA and DH as this thread has turned into is like comparing Sun-drop (for my NC folks) and Coca-Cola, which is, at best, pointless. Sun-D
50 APFPilot1985: Ive been on a repo for a couple of 172's and a lear for the company i used to work for. We would go in with proof of ownership id's and a letter from
51 Solehibob: I am finally motivated to post here. This repo is no big deal. One whiny lessor and one CRJ. 1) It IS 634BR. 2) USBank is the trustee suing on behalf
52 Solehibob: Oh and one other point: there has been too much progress made on the restructure over the past few months to let everything drop at this point. For ex
53 Allstarflyer: Solehibob, welcome to my respected users list, the 1st to make it. It has been a concern wondering how things are going to shake out. Unfortunately, I
54 Solehibob: wow, on my first posts, too. Thanks!
55 Avek00: "there has been too much progress made on the restructure over the past few months to let everything drop at this point." Not at all - other carriers
56 Solehibob: That doesn't sound right. UA and US couldn't get much of any restructure done until they actually went into protection. Before filing their unions ref
57 NY-JFK-LGA: United Airlines just wants us back. Its not what we at Independence want.
58 Lindy: Current situation at IAD. It looks like they are removing titles and logo from 8 airplanes. Rafal
59 Bohica: The A/C in the photo above are being returned to GE.
60 Solehibob: Those birds are part of the GE package from January. Check their registrations. All according to plan.
61 Bicoastal: Any idea when the illustrious management at Independence Air is going to release its financial reports? Seems they're a bit late on the draw for this
62 Solehibob: Bicoastal what sense does that post make and what sense does it make to post that? Indy is redoing everything from their fleet to their labor contract
63 Avek00: "They can't report until the negotiations are done." Yes, they most certainly CAN report, despite any ongoing negotiations. They are choosing NOT to r
64 Solehibob: Again, DAL delayed reporting as well. It's not a big deal. The Q could have been bad but Indy is about the future and not the past.
65 FlyPNS1: DAL delayed in the same way back in the fall. DAL reported its third quarter numbers on October 20, 2004 which is about the time DL always reports and
66 Solehibob: Ok then, what's your point? DAL was reporting a Q at that time, IDE is reporting a full K, IDE isn't even late in reporting as they reported as ACA in
67 Qwerty: Any ideas on what this might mean for the Airbus delivery schedule? From 8-K Filing: In response to recent speculation with respect to the status of i
68 FlyPNS1: The point I was making was that you kept saying how DAL had delayed which isn't true.
69 Solehibob: IDE isn't delayed either. And DAL waitied to report until its restructure was done.