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FlyI Aircraft Repossessed  
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 9973 times:

Just one...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17560-2005Feb11.html

79 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCactus739 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2447 posts, RR: 31
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 9885 times:

I've seen cars reposessed.... but how do you reposess a CRJ?


You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6764 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 9865 times:

at 30,000 feet.. a MD11 pulls up beside the CRJ, seving papers, telling them to pull over.. LOL


Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineN751PR From Japan, joined May 2002, 1249 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 9799 times:

Hey it happened with Philippine Airlines back in 1998... Embarrassment
(wellI dunno about an MD-11 pulling up... Laugh out loud)



"Ladies and Gentlemen it's happy hour. You will get two approaches for the price of one."
User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 9795 times:


It Happened to RG too a few years ago. From what I hear from the RG repo's they arrive at the city where the aircraft is ready to depart from with federal marshals and pilots who work for the leasing company. After everyone has got off the aircraft the marshals serve the papers and take possession of the aircraft. I cannot imagine the sitting in the gate and having the aircraft repo'ed. What dose the gate agent say. "unfortunately we have to cancel...our aircraft was just repossessed?!"

-m

 Big thumbs up



User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4369 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 9794 times:

It won't be long before the "Independence" rebellion at Dulles is finally put down, and IAD goes back to its rightful place as a colony for a full-service legacy airline...


Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 9759 times:

I posted the same about two hours earlier. No big deal but it's always good to search first.
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1955213/

I'm not a fan of Independence Air at all. Management is cocky and the shareholders have been screwed by them. I hope they go back to being a United Express carrier and making money again....with new management.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 9755 times:

While I agree that Indy's prospects aren't great, they only have to hold on longer than UA. If UA folds first, Indy would have a much easier time of it.

User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 9677 times:

So, Zvezda, when UA folds (and I don't think they will), Indy will start up those flights to Europe and South America?

Indy Air is in much, much worse shape than UA. The not-so-great experiment of an RJ Low (err, HIGH) Cost Carrier will be a memory for business schools to dissect.


User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 9659 times:



NO WAY united is even close to being in as bad of shape as DH!

-m

 Big thumbs up



User currently offlineANNOYEDFA From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 451 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 9636 times:

AVEK00: Get real..... UAL is barely still a full service carrier and at the rate their still losing money and can't even emerge Chapter 11 they should be worried if their going to be around to keep their "colony". Maybe when another company tries to reposess UAL'S aircraft like they did a few months but a judge blocked it, it will be airbus that FLYi can use.....  Smile/happy/getting dizzy *Sigh*


"TWA... One Mission, Yours."
User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 9621 times:

NO WAY united is even close to being in as bad of shape as DH!

Only because they have more assets. UA is certainly not sitting pretty though.

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlineKen4556 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9498 times:

United TriStar said: "UA is one of the only US carriers to have fuel hedged."

I thought that UA could not get fuel hedged lasy year due to its financial situation and that is one reason why the rise in fuel prices was expecially hard on UA.

Anyone know for sure?


User currently offlinePhatfarmlines From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1354 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9455 times:

United Airlines is taking a particularly big hit from not hedging. The Chicago-based carrier, which filed for federal bankruptcy court protection in December 2002, has been able to restructure more easily in Chapter 11, but is prevented by law from hedging while still in bankruptcy.

Quote taken directly from:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/04/16/financial1441EDT0172.DTL

As far as DH is concerned, I think the lessor has a right to do the repossession. DH has been very quiet about releasing 4th qtr. financials, and such information is needed by lessor to determine if DH will be a going concern or not. Holding back info, especially from a publicly-trading company, is not good IMO.


User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4369 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9436 times:

"Maybe when another company tries to reposess UAL'S aircraft like they did a few months but a judge blocked it, it will be airbus that FLYi can use..."

With respect, it is YOU who needs to get real about Indy Air's situation - the airline was doomed from the start by using high-CASM aircraft for a LOW FARE operation, and still records sh*tty loads with even sh*ttier yields despite offering its tickets through conventional point of sale channels.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlinePhatfarmlines From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1354 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9409 times:

Tristar, its time to walk the talk and find proof that UAL has hedged. Until then, I do not find your info credible.

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9400 times:

It says that UA is not hedging fuel, and that it isn't allowed to in bankruptcy by law.


Unless you believe the law has changed, that's directly relevant to what was said above.

N


User currently offlineJc2354 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 581 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9387 times:

Did I read correctly in that the plane was repossessed after missing just one payment? In some states, your car cant be repossessed until you've missed three payments.

One payment late doesn't make much sense. There must be more to the story.



If not now, then when?
User currently offlineCactus739 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2447 posts, RR: 31
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9318 times:

So is this thread about Indy or United?

I have a question for Tristar though... . United lost $493 million in the 4th quarter, $308 million of that was because of fuel. That leaves $185 million that they lost, not counting fuel. You bragged about their record high load factors and performance.... my question is: So? Flying full planes and landing on time means nothing if you lose a ton of money in the process.




You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3509 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9293 times:

Once they publish bad results for January other lessors will follow. Game over FlyI.

User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9253 times:

Does anyone know the reg# of the repossessed plane?

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineMEL From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1098 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9221 times:

Harry,



N634BR



NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26450 posts, RR: 75
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9203 times:

>It won't be long before the "Independence" rebellion at Dulles is finally put down, and IAD goes back to its rightful place as a colony for a full-service legacy airline... <

Well, except for that pesky guerilla jetBlue.

>It says that UA is not hedging fuel, and that it isn't allowed to in bankruptcy by law.<

UA stated in their earnings statement that they did have a minor hedge along the lines of $40 a barrel, and that is only for about 20% of their usage

>I've seen cars reposessed.... but how do you reposess a CRJ?<

Since no one answered that, I will. Basically, the "key" to an airplane, at least a legitimate one, is its MX log. If you pull that log from the plane, it is not supposed to go anywhere. After taking the log, the marshalls (In the US, Federal Marshalls always do this) lock the plane until it can be taken to the leasing company or bank's facility



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9172 times:

I saw a show on repo men on the Discovery Channel once, and they had to repossess a private plane. They actually just went to the airport, started the plane up, and flew off with it. Of course, in this case you are talking about an airline, and not a private citizen who might fly off and hide before authorities get there.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineAA717driver From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1566 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9152 times:

Tristar--Please do not call the posters on this board ignorant. We have all observed this business from inside and outside for a long time.

Are we ingorant for not believing that UAL is simply biding its time in Ch.11, waiting to pounce on the other unsuspecting carriers out there? SWA is using hedging to make a decent profit. UAL's hedging (whatever that may be) is keeping it from sustaining even more massive losses?

Lessors who are losing valuable leasing opportunities for their aircraft will be hard pressed to continue their relationship with UAL.

To say that UAL is a "force to be reckoned with" is like predicting a patient in the Intensive Care Unit will bolt from their bed and join the Super Bowl in progress.

Stating that UAL "may survive" is about as optimistic as anyone here dares to be.TC



FL450, M.85
25 1MillionFlyer : I used to run a company that had a Lear 35 financed by Boeing Leasing. It takes 3 payments to get a plane repo'd usually according to the standard con
26 JetBluefan1 : Speaking of FlyI, does anyone know when they're going to report their 4Q04 results? JetBlue, which usually reports profits last out of any other US ca
27 SLUAviator : The reason the judge blocked the repo of the UA planes is that it would have crippled UA internationally (tried to take their 767s back). He decided t
28 1MillionFlyer : oh you still have to pay for it. and the lawyer fees, etc etc. Where banks are concerned, you always pay beleive me. I hope they make it.
29 RCS763AV : When the Avianca crisis (99´ or 00´) a representative from the Swiss lessor of the Fokker-50s came to Bogota to take the 10 of them all. Fortunately
30 Burnsie28 : 73 FlyI jets, 73 FlyI jets, repossess one, 72 FlyI jets left..... Keep singing fellas, well get to none Next repossesion- CRJ and A319! As for FlyI ch
31 Post contains images Lightsaber : ERJ170, I laughed so hard, so the MD-11 is the equivalent of a flying crown vic? But officer, my registration is in the cargo hold... JC2354: Many sma
32 PlaneSmart : Commercial aircraft leasing contracts are rather more comprehensive than GA. For example, there are 'trigger' events that set off a series of steps th
33 777WT : The only airline I know hedged fuel costs is Southwest.
34 Post contains images Lightsaber : Planesmart: Good post. Welcome to my respected users list. Oh, its not for that post alone, your overall maturity. I've noticed you pipe in quickly wh
35 Iowaman : The only airline I know hedged fuel costs is Southwest. FL hedges and I could but wrong but I believe B6 does also.
36 IslipWN : N634BR is the plane that I flew on! IAD-ORF. That's so weird to think that a plane you were just on a few weeks ago has been repossessed! Michelle Qua
37 FriendlySkies : If you read UA's yearly financial report, it mentions that they hedged 20% of their 2005 fuel needs. There's a post somewhere on a.net about it (not d
38 Avek00 : "Aside from how ugly it looks, it may actually be a blessing (don't have to pay for it now)." Far from it - a default on obligations to one creditor/l
39 Post contains links A330323X : It says that UA is not hedging fuel, and that it isn't allowed to in bankruptcy by law. Unless you believe the law has changed, that's directly releva
40 ANNOYEDFA : I don't care how crippled they would of been... If they can't pay for it the lessor should have every right to repo it.
41 PlaneSmart : Avek00 "Aside from how ugly it looks, it may actually be a blessing (don't have to pay for it now)." 'Far from it - a default on obligations to one cr
42 N1120A : >The only airline I know hedged fuel costs is Southwest.I don't care how crippled they would of been...If they can't pay for it the lessor should have
43 Uadc8contrail : Time to get kerry to break out the FLYI experience again in order to get the troops to drink more kool-aid..anyone from indy in here knows what im tal
44 FSPilot747 : I dauno I always thought FlyI was a joke to begin with. Didn't see it lasting more than a year with their CASM figures. FSP
45 Sllevin : Just to elaborate slightly on Planesmart's post... the "trigger" events are referred to as "convenants." Available cash is perhaps THE most common cov
46 1MillionFlyer : This then leads to either a Default or technical default of the agreement. Many times when a default occurs, it allows the lessor to increase lease ra
47 RDUDDJI : N634BR is in the air right this second flying revenue for IDE. So obviously someone is mistaken (at least about the tail number). P.S. IIRC UA almost
48 UALPHLCS : When ever there is an INdy Air thread there are those who want to turn it into a UA bashing thread. It's not surprising considering the history of Ind
49 Post contains images ERJ170 : Now comparing UA and DH as this thread has turned into is like comparing Sun-drop (for my NC folks) and Coca-Cola, which is, at best, pointless. Sun-D
50 APFPilot1985 : Ive been on a repo for a couple of 172's and a lear for the company i used to work for. We would go in with proof of ownership id's and a letter from
51 Post contains links Solehibob : I am finally motivated to post here. This repo is no big deal. One whiny lessor and one CRJ. 1) It IS 634BR. 2) USBank is the trustee suing on behalf
52 Solehibob : Oh and one other point: there has been too much progress made on the restructure over the past few months to let everything drop at this point. For ex
53 Allstarflyer : Solehibob, welcome to my respected users list, the 1st to make it. It has been a concern wondering how things are going to shake out. Unfortunately, I
54 Solehibob : wow, on my first posts, too. Thanks!
55 Avek00 : "there has been too much progress made on the restructure over the past few months to let everything drop at this point." Not at all - other carriers
56 Solehibob : That doesn't sound right. UA and US couldn't get much of any restructure done until they actually went into protection. Before filing their unions ref
57 NY-JFK-LGA : United Airlines just wants us back. Its not what we at Independence want.
58 Post contains images Lindy : Current situation at IAD. It looks like they are removing titles and logo from 8 airplanes. Rafal
59 Bohica : The A/C in the photo above are being returned to GE.
60 Solehibob : Those birds are part of the GE package from January. Check their registrations. All according to plan.
61 Bicoastal : Any idea when the illustrious management at Independence Air is going to release its financial reports? Seems they're a bit late on the draw for this
62 Solehibob : Bicoastal what sense does that post make and what sense does it make to post that? Indy is redoing everything from their fleet to their labor contract
63 Avek00 : "They can't report until the negotiations are done." Yes, they most certainly CAN report, despite any ongoing negotiations. They are choosing NOT to r
64 Solehibob : Again, DAL delayed reporting as well. It's not a big deal. The Q could have been bad but Indy is about the future and not the past.
65 FlyPNS1 : DAL delayed in the same way back in the fall. DAL reported its third quarter numbers on October 20, 2004 which is about the time DL always reports and
66 Solehibob : Ok then, what's your point? DAL was reporting a Q at that time, IDE is reporting a full K, IDE isn't even late in reporting as they reported as ACA in
67 Qwerty : Any ideas on what this might mean for the Airbus delivery schedule? From 8-K Filing: In response to recent speculation with respect to the status of i
68 FlyPNS1 : The point I was making was that you kept saying how DAL had delayed which isn't true.
69 Solehibob : IDE isn't delayed either. And DAL waitied to report until its restructure was done.
70 Solehibob : Qwerty: yes. nothing at all.
71 Qwerty : yes. nothing at all. I doubt you are correct. Go ahead and buy up all you want at $1.55
72 Solehibob : Airbus isn't at the table now? Is that what you are saying?
73 Unicorn : Hmmm, N630BR is listed as belonging to NATIONSCREDIT COMMERCIAL CORP. They also own N620BR, N622BR & N634BR. These four aircraft are amongst the oldes
74 Post contains links Solehibob : It's 634BR. USBank for INGLease. Here's the link to the case. http://portal.courts.state.ny.us/pls...0/CMS_DEV.RPT_FCAS_OPEN_INDEX.show
75 Flightopsguy : IDE stock continues downward...at $1.49 this morning. No doubt IDE will find someway to re-invent themselves and stay in business, but I think that th
76 CasInterest : It will be interesting to say the least. How much money have they lost, and have the load factors reached a point where the creditors might back off.
77 Bicoastal : Fridays and Sunday nights/Mondays morning are good for all airlines. The question is how booked are they on other days....and not simply on flights to
78 CasInterest : Yep Bicoastal, I totally agree with you, and I think it will be interesting to watch now that they have all the GDS agreements, and they appear all ov
79 Midway2AirTran : "IDE stock continues downward...at $1.49 this morning. No doubt IDE will find someway to re-invent themselves and stay in business, but I think that t
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