Summa767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2664 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9236 times:
Clearly BA need to get their act sorted. We can remember the flight cancellations, and reduction in schedules due to aircraft shortages since the autumn.
However, the do-gooding independent is proving to be sensationalist in its own way: Just in the headline it wants to say that a jets are being replaced by a "charter flights" giving the impressions that these are not jets. And as to the statement that the 767 will take the flight time to 10 hours, does give the impression that the difference with the speed of the 777 is significant. Gosh gosh.
BAPILOT2B From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 928 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9210 times:
And you really start to question the papers judgement when they dont think its such a big deal when bmi or VS or any other charter operator change the schedule to another operator. Im sure I wouldnt be happy if I booked MAN-MCO understanding I was on one of VS's 744's and when I got their its an old 742 leased from another airline . British newspapers are just a waste of time to read, the chances of you reading a non biased, non sensationalish topic is 0-1. Maybe somebody should forward the writer of that story onto G-BNWH which operates MAN-JFK and then place that same person on the Euro Atlantic 763 LGW-TPA, im sure he would preffer the latter.......
SevenHeavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1183 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9160 times:
There is a big difference between what BA has done (although I agree it has been somewhat sensationalised and distorted by the press) and the VS example you quote. Here's why.
VS schedules and publications show a B742 operating MAN-MCO, they never claim it is a B744 (although it will be from may). Also the B742 in question is a former VS example that still carries its VS registration and actually has slightly better IFE and identical seats, configurations ( except for the B744's that have been "suited") and service in all classes that you would find on any other VS flight and aircraft.
In BA's case they have subchartered an aircraft from another airline that was not published in original schedules and which offers a different standard of product and service. As I said the situation has been twisted a little in the article, and yes a B767 is slightly slower than a B777 but the comparism is not accurate.
Fbgdavidson From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 3786 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9029 times:
Well, while a substitute aircraft is a little disappointing to enthusiasts, I would hazard that the majority of people using the service would be grateful that BA hadn't cancelled completely.
Which would be better? No flight or a different aicraft/provider? I know which I would prefer if I was travelling.
Think about it
I'm a loyal BA flyer and would be furious if I'd saved miles or paid £2500+ for a Club World seat (as I often do) and turned up to be given this POS.
BA have made so many faux pas with this:
-they are still allowing people to book tickets in First / Club World without warning that they will be getting a wildly different product
-the compensation offered is appalling
-they refuse to apologise and put it down to some 'planned schedule' bullhonky.
-Not only have they done this with TPA but NBO as well.....in the same week!
It appears if you are flying in the back you aren't getting an entirely different product but imagine those poor folks who have saved up all their benefit money to take the kids to DisneyWorld in J Watch them run back to MyTravel
[Edited 2005-02-12 17:56:22]
"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
Trident3 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 1014 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8994 times:
Rewind to 1975, we are as a family about to go on our first holiday abroad, to Malta. We arrived at LHR to find that our BA Trident3 had been replaced by a British Airtours 707. That was quite a substitution when you consider that the 707 would have had a seat pitch of something like 28-29 inches. Mind you it was a great adventure for a ten year old!
"We are the warrior race-Tough men in the toughest sport." Brian Noble, Head Coach, Great Britain Rugby League.
Ushermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2990 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8964 times:
Well the TPA service, up until a few years ago was done by British Caledonian DC-10's (1996 being my last trip on this great plane) on behalf of BA and that really sucked, talk about cramped seating. At least a 767 is more spacious, even if the pitch is tighter. I would have only been annoyed by the lack of PTV's because I actually prefer the 767 over the 777.
It is a disgrace though how little compensation the premium passengers were given!
Catatonic From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1155 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 8925 times:
I can safely say (In my opinion) BA's eco product is inferior compared to most charter carriers having flown both across the pond, also (In my opinion) AA offer a much more superior product from LHR especially on their 777's! In future I will be flying AA!
DC10Tim From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1406 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8724 times:
As an economy passenger I would not have been bothered in the slightest. BA took the initiative and got an aircraft to get those passengers to where they wanted to be. Why all the critism? I'm sure people remember the LHR fiasco last summer when BA were hiring lorries to take peoples luggage across Europe days after the strikes had finished. Why couldn't they have charted an aircraft then?
Also, EuroAtlantic are a pretty rare airline to get a ride on anyway, so I might even have been pleased.
Just curious though as to why this is being attributed to the bad weather in the US last month?
Skidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 54
Reply 14, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8667 times:
Back to slanging off BA I see chaps. Well, carry on, but I for one think they did the right thing. And, if you arent happy about the service, complain to their cutomer relations department, not in here.
I stand by my previous statement - at least the flights haven't been cancelled. After last year's fiasco the staff are doing their utmost to get things back on track and try to repair some of the damage done.
There seems to be a lot of Airline slagging in this forum, much of which I don't doubt is warranted, but no one ever gives a thought to how the airline operates and is actually run. Passengers and others spend time knocking and whining about airlines, with very little thought for how they work and the ramifications. Airlines don't just cancel flights because they feel like it, their is usually a damn good reason. They are in the game to make money, and cancelling flights and pissing pax off is not good business.
So, next time you think about having a go, think about the person behind the desk, out on the ramp or in the cabin. They all have a job to do, and if you dont get what you pay for, dont have a go at them, its not their fault! And if the aircraft isn't the one you were expecting, be grateful they bothered to get a substitute - they could just as easily cancel the whole shooting match!
ANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5538 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8635 times:
At least the didn't cancel the flights above... but heres what they cancelled recently... some of them premium routes...
As I said above.. Its been going on for over 6 months... time to sort it out before they loose more pax to the likes of VS etc
I think we have the right to speak up about this. BA are in the service industry and market themselves as a premium carrier that can fix things when they go wrong... Not recently. Whats the issue? Lack of aircraft? Maintenance? US Visa's?
3 February 2005
BA 297 London Heathrow to Chicago
BA 005 London Heathrow to Narita
4 February 2005
BA 296 Chicago to London Heathrow
BA 297 London Heathrow to Chicago
5 February 2005
BA 239 London Heathrow to Boston
BA 296 Chicago to London Heathrow
BA 113 London Heathrow to New York (JFK)
6 February 2005
BA 116 New York (JFK) to London Heathrow
BA 185 London Heathrow to Newark
BA 006 Narita to London Heathrow
BA 212 Boston to London Heathrow
7 February 2005
BA 184 Newark to London Heathrow
BA 185 London Heathrow to Newark
8 February 2005
BA 186 Newark to London Heathrow
BA 67 London Heathrow to Philadelphia
BA 093 London Heathrow to Toronto
9 February 2005
BA 66 Philadelphia to London Heathrow
BA 092 Toronto to London Heathrow
Jmc757 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2000, 1310 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8609 times:
I think the only real issue here is people in Club World. Economy passengers are loosing about an inch of seat pitch, and perhaps a slightly inferior IFE system. At the end of the day, the flight is operating.
That article is a load of bull. Quoting flyertalk! Newspapers should not quote anonymous internet forums as if they are industry experts, its ridiculous! It happens all the time, bmi have used EAF 737s before!!
DoorsToManual From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8505 times:
Problem at the moment is a shortage of crew, not aircraft. In particular, a shortage of longhaul crew at LGW; new entrants coming in thick and fast, but alas not quick enough to avoid this business of chartering other aircraft. Apparently 2 Edelweiss A330s have been covering some NBO flights.
In the rush to get rid of 1000s of employees after 911, it looks like they brought manpower levels in certain areas of the airline below the minimum required. When it works, BA service is generally quite good; the recent series of strikes and cancellations though, has not done the airline any real favours, especially when (as stated above by another poster) the airline wishes to promote itself as a premium choice.
GARUDAROD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1554 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8457 times:
There is quite a lengthy discussion on this topic on the PPRUNE board.
Seems that the cause is the requirement for the Cabin crew to get
visas to work the USA flights on their own time, so they are "protesting"
for lack of a better word. Also the seat pitch is supposed to be 28"
on the Euro Atlantic B767 vs 31" on the BA World Traveller. Not quite
Crosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2629 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8413 times:
EuroAtlantic's B767-300 is 289 seats all-economy 2-3-2 - not a particularly high number for an all-Y configuration. By comparison MyTravel's B767-300 seats 326, all-economy, 2-4-2, 29-30" pitch.
So with 7 abreast seating, a similar 289 seat layout on the EuroAtlantic aircraft would easily give a pitch of 30" EuroAtlantic's website says the pitch is 28" - but that seems like a conversion error from metric to imperial units to me... 28" pitch would give more than 289 seats at 7" abreast.
BA would have been able to secure other capacity if the aircraft did not provide even a basic standard of comfort for long-haul operations.
Star_world From Ireland, joined Jun 2001, 1234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8322 times:
JMC757 - I think we can safely say that FT is one of the more reputable sources to quote from with regards frequent BA travellers...! The very fact that you make the comparison with BD using someone else's 737s shows that you don't really appreciate the difference here - as people said above, how would you feel if you'd paid several thousands of pounds (not possible on a shorthaul 737 flight btw) for an international business class flight (with flat beds, etc) and ended up in the front section of a charter aircraft?
: Two of BA's top management, indentified in last years fiasco, have departed or will soon do so. Unfortunately the consequences are still being witness
26 BA Pilot
: I think BA are currently using L1011's for the Kenya Service.
: Skidmarks... of course other airlines cancel flights... But I haven't seen many airlines cancelling a large amount of long haul flights over a 6 month
: I was also reading on that article that they are gonna give 250£ back to Club passengers. I travelled 2 or 3 times to Tampa on the 777 in ClubWorld (
: I travelled 2 or 3 times to Tampa on the 777 in ClubWorld (still cradle seat) with BA and if I was one of those passengers, for sure I would refuse th
: Ushermittwoch says: At least a 767 is more spacious, even if the pitch is tighter. I would have only been annoyed by the lack of PTV's because I actua
: Skidmarks I would have to agree with you that this seems more about slagging off the airline.....seems to be a great pleasure for many. Of course BA d
: 3 February 2005 BA 297 London Heathrow to Chicago BA 005 London Heathrow to Narita 4 February 2005 BA 296 Chicago to London Heathrow BA 297 London Hea
: Sounds like a lot... yes... add this to the cancellations August - December and it is quite significant. I like BA, but why can't they plan/manage the
: Oh dear the broadsheet posh press is at it again, yet they should be ashamed of themselves, the reporting quality is no better than the trashiest of t
: Seems fair enough to me for economy passengers, but not for those who have paid for much better. I think my family had the worst replacement aircraft
: The EuroAtlantic 767-300 operated as BA2037/2036 LGW-MCO-LGW 10Feb2005, which was a first for BA into MCO. Paxs were understandably concerned about th
: Funny thing is, when I clicked on the Independent link, I went to the site and got a BA pop-up ad.
: That article is a load of bull. Quoting flyertalk! Newspapers should not quote anonymous internet forums as if they are industry experts, its ridiculo