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Flying BA? No... You're On A Charter Today..  
User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5176 posts, RR: 6
Posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8601 times:

http://travel.independent.co.uk/news_and_advice/story.jsp?story=610118

Seems BA are substituting more flights... only this time the press has got wind of it...

They need to sort these operational issues out as the last 6 months have been bad at BA...

52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2547 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8488 times:

Clearly BA need to get their act sorted. We can remember the flight cancellations, and reduction in schedules due to aircraft shortages since the autumn.

However, the do-gooding independent is proving to be sensationalist in its own way: Just in the headline it wants to say that a jets are being replaced by a "charter flights" giving the impressions that these are not jets. And as to the statement that the 767 will take the flight time to 10 hours, does give the impression that the difference with the speed of the 777 is significant. Gosh gosh.


User currently offlineBAPILOT2B From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 927 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8462 times:

And you really start to question the papers judgement when they dont think its such a big deal when bmi or VS or any other charter operator change the schedule to another operator. Im sure I wouldnt be happy if I booked MAN-MCO understanding I was on one of VS's 744's and when I got their its an old 742 leased from another airline  Big grin. British newspapers are just a waste of time to read, the chances of you reading a non biased, non sensationalish topic is 0-1. Maybe somebody should forward the writer of that story onto G-BNWH which operates MAN-JFK and then place that same person on the Euro Atlantic 763 LGW-TPA, im sure he would preffer the latter.......


Jason Nicholls - v1images
User currently offlineSevenHeavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1156 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8412 times:

BAPILOT2B:

There is a big difference between what BA has done (although I agree it has been somewhat sensationalised and distorted by the press) and the VS example you quote. Here's why.

VS schedules and publications show a B742 operating MAN-MCO, they never claim it is a B744 (although it will be from may). Also the B742 in question is a former VS example that still carries its VS registration and actually has slightly better IFE and identical seats, configurations ( except for the B744's that have been "suited") and service in all classes that you would find on any other VS flight and aircraft.

In BA's case they have subchartered an aircraft from another airline that was not published in original schedules and which offers a different standard of product and service. As I said the situation has been twisted a little in the article, and yes a B767 is slightly slower than a B777 but the comparism is not accurate.

Regards,

SevenHeavy



So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
User currently offlineSkidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 55
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8389 times:

Well, while a substitute aircraft is a little disappointing to enthusiasts, I would hazard that the majority of people using the service would be grateful that BA hadn't cancelled completely.

Which would be better? No flight or a different aicraft/provider? I know which I would prefer if I was travelling.

Think about it.

Cheers

Andy



Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
User currently offlineBAPILOT2B From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 927 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8322 times:

SevenHeavy, I do understand the difference, and thanks for going onto why there is a large difference, I should have thought alot more before posting!  Nuts .


Jason Nicholls - v1images
User currently offlineSpike From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1170 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8290 times:

I take it that you have been precribed drugs by now?



User currently offlineFbgdavidson From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 3701 posts, RR: 28
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8281 times:

Well, while a substitute aircraft is a little disappointing to enthusiasts, I would hazard that the majority of people using the service would be grateful that BA hadn't cancelled completely.

Which would be better? No flight or a different aicraft/provider? I know which I would prefer if I was travelling.

Think about it


I'm a loyal BA flyer and would be furious if I'd saved miles or paid £2500+ for a Club World seat (as I often do) and turned up to be given this POS.

BA have made so many faux pas with this:
-they are still allowing people to book tickets in First / Club World without warning that they will be getting a wildly different product
-the compensation offered is appalling
-they refuse to apologise and put it down to some 'planned schedule' bullhonky.
-Not only have they done this with TPA but NBO as well.....in the same week!

It appears if you are flying in the back you aren't getting an entirely different product but imagine those poor folks who have saved up all their benefit money to take the kids to DisneyWorld in J  Big grin Watch them run back to MyTravel Big grin

[Edited 2005-02-12 17:56:22]


"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
User currently offlineTrident3 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 1013 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8246 times:

Rewind to 1975, we are as a family about to go on our first holiday abroad, to Malta. We arrived at LHR to find that our BA Trident3 had been replaced by a British Airtours 707. That was quite a substitution when you consider that the 707 would have had a seat pitch of something like 28-29 inches. Mind you it was a great adventure for a ten year old!


"We are the warrior race-Tough men in the toughest sport." Brian Noble, Head Coach, Great Britain Rugby League.
User currently offlineUshermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2965 posts, RR: 16
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8216 times:

Well the TPA service, up until a few years ago was done by British Caledonian DC-10's (1996 being my last trip on this great plane) on behalf of BA and that really sucked, talk about cramped seating. At least a 767 is more spacious, even if the pitch is tighter. I would have only been annoyed by the lack of PTV's because I actually prefer the 767 over the 777.
It is a disgrace though how little compensation the premium passengers were given!



Where have all the tri-jets gone...
User currently offlineCatatonic From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1155 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 8177 times:

I can safely say (In my opinion) BA's eco product is inferior compared to most charter carriers having flown both across the pond, also (In my opinion) AA offer a much more superior product from LHR especially on their 777's! In future I will be flying AA!


Equally Cursed and Blessed.
User currently offlineFbgdavidson From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 3701 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 8074 times:

BA's eco product is inferior compared to most charter carriers having flown both across the pond

Well I've done BA Y a couple of times in emergencies (never charter! god forbid!) and found it erm crap but what I thought was interesting was this....

'Travellers in economy class passengers get nothing, because BA describes the service as 'broadly similar' to its own economy product'

No. Not that bad grammar at the beginning!  Big grin But the fact BA admit their own economy product is pretty much the same as low-end charter trash!



"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
User currently offlineDC10Tim From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1406 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 7976 times:

As an economy passenger I would not have been bothered in the slightest. BA took the initiative and got an aircraft to get those passengers to where they wanted to be. Why all the critism? I'm sure people remember the LHR fiasco last summer when BA were hiring lorries to take peoples luggage across Europe days after the strikes had finished. Why couldn't they have charted an aircraft then?

Also, EuroAtlantic are a pretty rare airline to get a ride on anyway, so I might even have been pleased.

Just curious though as to why this is being attributed to the bad weather in the US last month?

Tim.



Obviously missing something....
User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5176 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 7931 times:

If it was an isolated case I could get over it. But this has been going on for over 2 weeks now, not to mention the cancellations in the last 6 months of 2004.

Don;t get me wrong, I'm a loyal BA flyer, but time to put the house in order and get rid of Mike Street.




User currently offlineSkidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 55
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 7919 times:

Back to slanging off BA I see chaps. Well, carry on, but I for one think they did the right thing. And, if you arent happy about the service, complain to their cutomer relations department, not in here.

I stand by my previous statement - at least the flights haven't been cancelled. After last year's fiasco the staff are doing their utmost to get things back on track and try to repair some of the damage done.

There seems to be a lot of Airline slagging in this forum, much of which I don't doubt is warranted, but no one ever gives a thought to how the airline operates and is actually run. Passengers and others spend time knocking and whining about airlines, with very little thought for how they work and the ramifications. Airlines don't just cancel flights because they feel like it, their is usually a damn good reason. They are in the game to make money, and cancelling flights and pissing pax off is not good business.

So, next time you think about having a go, think about the person behind the desk, out on the ramp or in the cabin. They all have a job to do, and if you dont get what you pay for, dont have a go at them, its not their fault! And if the aircraft isn't the one you were expecting, be grateful they bothered to get a substitute - they could just as easily cancel the whole shooting match!

Have a nice flight

Andy



Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
User currently offlineJc2354 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 572 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 7905 times:

I wouldn't mind one last ride on a tri-star


If not now, then when?
User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5176 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7887 times:

At least the didn't cancel the flights above... but heres what they cancelled recently... some of them premium routes...

As I said above.. Its been going on for over 6 months... time to sort it out before they loose more pax to the likes of VS etc

I think we have the right to speak up about this. BA are in the service industry and market themselves as a premium carrier that can fix things when they go wrong... Not recently. Whats the issue? Lack of aircraft? Maintenance? US Visa's?

3 February 2005
BA 297 London Heathrow to Chicago
BA 005 London Heathrow to Narita

4 February 2005
BA 296 Chicago to London Heathrow
BA 297 London Heathrow to Chicago

5 February 2005
BA 239 London Heathrow to Boston
BA 296 Chicago to London Heathrow
BA 113 London Heathrow to New York (JFK)

6 February 2005
BA 116 New York (JFK) to London Heathrow
BA 185 London Heathrow to Newark
BA 006 Narita to London Heathrow
BA 212 Boston to London Heathrow

7 February 2005
BA 184 Newark to London Heathrow
BA 185 London Heathrow to Newark

8 February 2005
BA 186 Newark to London Heathrow
BA 67 London Heathrow to Philadelphia
BA 093 London Heathrow to Toronto

9 February 2005
BA 66 Philadelphia to London Heathrow
BA 092 Toronto to London Heathrow


[Edited 2005-02-12 20:29:28]

User currently offlineJmc757 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2000, 1298 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7861 times:

I think the only real issue here is people in Club World. Economy passengers are loosing about an inch of seat pitch, and perhaps a slightly inferior IFE system. At the end of the day, the flight is operating.

That article is a load of bull. Quoting flyertalk! Newspapers should not quote anonymous internet forums as if they are industry experts, its ridiculous! It happens all the time, bmi have used EAF 737s before!!


User currently offlineSkidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 55
Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7840 times:

Of course, no other airline ever cancels flights do they?


Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
User currently offlineG-CIVP From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1314 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7797 times:

Alot of airlines sub in aircraft as and when required. It isn't a big deal. Better to do it in the low season rather than the high season.

User currently offlineDoorsToManual From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 7757 times:

Problem at the moment is a shortage of crew, not aircraft. In particular, a shortage of longhaul crew at LGW; new entrants coming in thick and fast, but alas not quick enough to avoid this business of chartering other aircraft. Apparently 2 Edelweiss A330s have been covering some NBO flights.

In the rush to get rid of 1000s of employees after 911, it looks like they brought manpower levels in certain areas of the airline below the minimum required. When it works, BA service is generally quite good; the recent series of strikes and cancellations though, has not done the airline any real favours, especially when (as stated above by another poster) the airline wishes to promote itself as a premium choice.


User currently offlineGARUDAROD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1516 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 7709 times:


There is quite a lengthy discussion on this topic on the PPRUNE board.
Seems that the cause is the requirement for the Cabin crew to get
visas to work the USA flights on their own time, so they are "protesting"
for lack of a better word. Also the seat pitch is supposed to be 28"
on the Euro Atlantic B767 vs 31" on the BA World Traveller. Not quite
"Broadly Similiar"



Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
User currently offlineFbgdavidson From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 3701 posts, RR: 28
Reply 22, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 7675 times:

That article is a load of bull. Quoting flyertalk! Newspapers should not quote anonymous internet forums as if they are industry experts, its ridiculous!

At least they didn't quote someone off here  Laugh out loud



"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
User currently offlineCrosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2598 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 7665 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

EuroAtlantic's B767-300 is 289 seats all-economy 2-3-2 - not a particularly high number for an all-Y configuration. By comparison MyTravel's B767-300 seats 326, all-economy, 2-4-2, 29-30" pitch.

So with 7 abreast seating, a similar 289 seat layout on the EuroAtlantic aircraft would easily give a pitch of 30" EuroAtlantic's website says the pitch is 28" - but that seems like a conversion error from metric to imperial units to me... 28" pitch would give more than 289 seats at 7" abreast.

BA would have been able to secure other capacity if the aircraft did not provide even a basic standard of comfort for long-haul operations.

Regards
CROSSWIND


User currently offlineStar_world From Ireland, joined Jun 2001, 1234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7574 times:

JMC757 - I think we can safely say that FT is one of the more reputable sources to quote from with regards frequent BA travellers...! The very fact that you make the comparison with BD using someone else's 737s shows that you don't really appreciate the difference here - as people said above, how would you feel if you'd paid several thousands of pounds (not possible on a shorthaul 737 flight btw) for an international business class flight (with flat beds, etc) and ended up in the front section of a charter aircraft?

25 Scotron11 : Two of BA's top management, indentified in last years fiasco, have departed or will soon do so. Unfortunately the consequences are still being witness
26 BA Pilot : I think BA are currently using L1011's for the Kenya Service.
27 ANstar : Skidmarks... of course other airlines cancel flights... But I haven't seen many airlines cancelling a large amount of long haul flights over a 6 month
28 AZA330 : I was also reading on that article that they are gonna give 250£ back to Club passengers. I travelled 2 or 3 times to Tampa on the 777 in ClubWorld (
29 Fbgdavidson : I travelled 2 or 3 times to Tampa on the 777 in ClubWorld (still cradle seat) with BA and if I was one of those passengers, for sure I would refuse th
30 Post contains links and images B4real : Ushermittwoch says: At least a 767 is more spacious, even if the pitch is tighter. I would have only been annoyed by the lack of PTV's because I actua
31 Speedbird2155 : Skidmarks I would have to agree with you that this seems more about slagging off the airline.....seems to be a great pleasure for many. Of course BA d
32 Cheeryguy : 3 February 2005 BA 297 London Heathrow to Chicago BA 005 London Heathrow to Narita 4 February 2005 BA 296 Chicago to London Heathrow BA 297 London Hea
33 ANstar : Sounds like a lot... yes... add this to the cancellations August - December and it is quite significant. I like BA, but why can't they plan/manage the
34 AngelAirways : Oh dear the broadsheet posh press is at it again, yet they should be ashamed of themselves, the reporting quality is no better than the trashiest of t
35 PlaneSmart : Seems fair enough to me for economy passengers, but not for those who have paid for much better. I think my family had the worst replacement aircraft
36 Post contains images VSMike : The EuroAtlantic 767-300 operated as BA2037/2036 LGW-MCO-LGW 10Feb2005, which was a first for BA into MCO. Paxs were understandably concerned about th
37 N1120A : Funny thing is, when I clicked on the Independent link, I went to the site and got a BA pop-up ad.
38 Post contains images KaiGywer : That article is a load of bull. Quoting flyertalk! Newspapers should not quote anonymous internet forums as if they are industry experts, its ridiculo
39 Jc2354 : What is the history of Mike Street?
40 Foxiboy : Well if you read the small print which many people dont do then you would see that any airline can substitute another airline to operate a service,als
41 Speedbird2155 : Foxiboy I work for BA and it is frustrating reading these comments at times. We never pretend to be perfect, we have issues like all airlines, but yet
42 FLVILLA : BA didn't have to do anything, they could have just cancelled entirely, but no, they went out of there way which remember most airlines would not do a
43 WhiteHatter : Typical sensationalist journalism, probably witten by a hack trying to pretend he is an expert. BA have fleet issues with the American operations suff
44 Monkeyboi : I think BA BAshing is almost a national sport in the UK! Come on, give us a break! I do work for BA so may be a little bias, but in the past I have al
45 A340600 : The Tampa route is traditionally 95% leisure traffic. I have worked the LGW-TPA flight numerous times and Club Class is always pretty much dead. yes,
46 AZA330 : All the times I flew LGW-TPA and back Club Class was full. I don't know how many seats now they have with the new flat bed, but they had 42 seats in t
47 Charliecossie : I believe that pax booked in Club would have received the difference between an economy and club ticket AND 250 quid extra as compensation.
48 Sllevin : BA didn't have to do anything, they could have just cancelled entirely And that would have been the right thing to do? Legally, I suspect BA could can
49 Speedbird2155 : AZA330 Just because you've seen Club full when you've travelled the TPA route, doesn't mean that it always is and neither would you know how many of t
50 ANstar : But why has this been an ongoing problem across their long haul fleet for the last 6 months? Surely it can't just be bad luck?
51 Speedbird2155 : It hasn't been an ongoing problem for the last 6 months. You are linking cancellations resulting from different issues, to the ones that are now arisi
52 ChrisNH : They must be able to do the UK-Tampa run without the almost obligatory fuel stop in Bangor, Maine. I checked FlyteComm.com for signs of transient flig
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