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Lufthansa In South/Latin America  
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5022 times:

How is LH doing in LatAm, and what are the plans for the future?

As of Feb/05, there will be some changes in the schedule, but overall here are LH routes in the region:

GRU: 14 x week nonstop flights (7 x A346 and 7 x B747);
MEX-CUN: 8 x week nonstop flights with the B747;
EZE: 7 x week with the B747 (1 stop in GRU);
SCL: 7 x week with the A346 (1 stop in GRU);
CCS: 5 x week nonstop flights with the A343;

In full codeshare with RG, LH also operates FRA-GRU-GIG daily with the B772 and FRA-GIG daily with the MD-11.

Any chances of LH landing in BOG to take over the route from BA? When is CCS expected to go daily?

Rgs,


70 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7561 posts, RR: 43
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4991 times:

Hi Hardi. I am surprised to see the info on 8 weekly flights to MEX and CUN. As far as I knew, LH was only flying once daily to MEX only from FRA.

Last year, LH flew once daily FRA-MEX all year long and added 3 additional flights, also with the 744, during the summer season. This year, unfortunately, there will be no additional flights.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4979 times:

As far as I knew, LH was only flying once daily to MEX only from FRA.

LH added one additional flight MEX-CUN (LH496) operating on Saturdays. I'm not aware whether it will operate only provisionally or all Summer/05.

Rgs,





User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7561 posts, RR: 43
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4954 times:

Thanks for the update Hardi. It's good news to see cities other than MEX served by European carriers. Too bad AM and MX do not venture on trans-Atlantic service from CUN.


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4393 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4886 times:

MEX-CUN must be a codeshare with MX.....lufthansa.com does not show any flights MEX-CUN, thus it has to be a codeshare.


Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineFabi727 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 27 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4889 times:


I read that LH flights to Caracas will start on 28 of March, daily.At that time Air France will also commence its daily flights with 747-400s.
I flew LH to Caracas on the 21 of December on a 747-400 but it was a special service for a week due to demand and it really was full. I noticed a lot of people coming from Poland connecting to Margarita Island and of course others connecting to Colombia and Peru.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4879 times:

MEX-CUN must be a codeshare with MX

No. LH flies FRA-MEX-CUN, and does not have 5th freedom rights MEX-CUN. LH uses the B747 for this service.

I read that LH flights to Caracas will start on 28 of March, daily

Interesting development, so LH and AF will serve CCS with daily flights as of March/05? It seems they were quick to capitalise on KL and BA withdrawal.

Does LH have any partnership to connect pax onward from CCS to LIM, and/or BOG?

Rgs,


User currently offline757MDE From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 1753 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4855 times:

There has been lots of gossip regarding BOG, even before BA announced they were going to leave, one of the "optioned to return" in the aforementioned gossip is LH and the other is AZ, but I don't think any of those is coming back soon.


I gladly accept donations to pay for flight hours! This thing draws man...
User currently offlineLanPeru From Peru, joined Jun 2001, 645 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4842 times:

I really wish that LH would give LIM another go. A two-class A340-300 could probably operate with decent loads in both cabins, even if it's 3-4 time a week.

User currently offlineJohnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4823 times:

there´s no such a thing as LH serving CUN. LH's MEX services terminate at MEX.
i wouldn't hold my breath for new LatAm destinations served by LH. they're pretty much focused on GRU which is nothing else but a German suburb (more than 1000 german companies got branch offices there).
don't know about CCS which apparently seems to be succesful but all the other and former LatAm destinations seem to be weak links in the network.

rgds
daniel



If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4804 times:

i wouldn't hold my breath for new LatAm destinations served by LH. they're pretty much focused on GRU which is nothing else but a German suburb (more than 1000 german companies got branch offices there).

Indeed, and dont forget the huge German colony in Sao Paulo and South Brazil; in some cities German is still widely spoken.

there´s no such a thing as LH serving CUN. LH's MEX services terminate at MEX.

You're correct. CUN-MEX is operated by MX, with the 757. And as of March, LH will serve MEX 7 x week (and not 8 x week as stated above).

Rgs,


[Edited 2005-02-12 20:12:58]

User currently offlineGte439u From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 361 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4760 times:

Indeed, and dont forget the huge German colony in Sao Paulo and South Brazil; in some cities German is still widely spoken.

Generally, the German-Brazilian community has fully integrated into Brazilian society. German is no longer widely spoken in the far south of Brazil except by the immigrants and some of their children. However, there are certain towns in the south such as Blumenau (Santa Catarina), which was settled by Germans in the late 19th century, where the architecture and food is distinctly Germanic. However, the language is still the distinct Portuguese of Southern Brazil. As with the European diaspora in other parts of the world, it is uncommon for them to return to their ancestral homeland frequently.



User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4704 times:

Generally, the German-Brazilian community has fully integrated into Brazilian society.

Correct, as have any other different communities, from Africans (ex-slaves for the Portuguese colonisers) to Japanese and Arabs.

.As with the European diaspora in other parts of the world, it is uncommon for them to return to their ancestral homeland frequently

Many European-Brazilians, Japanese-Brazilians, Arab-Brazilians, of second or third generation, do travel frequently to their homeland, and also migrated back to their homeland. This is represented, for example, in the amount of Brazilian-Italians, Brazilian-Germans and, above all, Japanese-Brazilians with dual nationality that keep busy the VRF's loads of flights to these destinations. [note RG and JAL flights NRT-GRU, for example: if you happen to be in GRU when RG or JL flights from NRT arrive you have the impression you are in Japan  Smile].

Rgs,


User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5922 posts, RR: 40
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4654 times:

I see the following future routes for LH to Latin American City´s.

beginning a 3/7 from MUC to MEX using A346 after a time upgrade to a daily service.

a 4/7 from FRA to MEX using a 2class A343.

reinstall the MUC-GRU flight just after 6 month Varig beginns....

regards
Avianca



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4644 times:

I see it slightly different:

FRA-MEX 7x A380
FRA-CCS 7x A343
FRA-GRU-GIG 7x 747, maybe A380
FRA-GRU-SCL 7x A346
FRA-EZE 7x A343


and from my wishlist:

FRA-BOG-LIM 7x A343


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4600 times:

My guesS:

FRA-GRU-GIG 7 x A380;
FRA-GRU 7 X A346;
FRA-MEX 7 x A380;
FRA-EZE 7 x B747;
FRA-CCS 7 X A343;
FRA-SCL 4 x A343;
FRA-BOG-LIM 4 X A343

Rgs,


User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4589 times:

FRA-GRU-GIG 7 x A380

I think that GIG will dissapear completely from LH's network, why should they send their own planes when passengers can connect comfortable on RG via GRU or take the nonstop flight from FRA to GIG on RG? LH already stopped the nonstop flight from FRA to GIG (operated by the 343 in F/C/Y configuration in the past) and now they will even stop the GRU-GIG flights in favor of GRU-EZE and GRU-SCL. GIG is a low yield market, maybe they will send a 343 in C/Y configuration without F nonstop from FRA on a few days a week, but I really doubt that they will fly FRA-GRU-GIG on the A 380 in the future.

Patrick


User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5922 posts, RR: 40
Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4567 times:

<FRA-BOG-LIM 4 X A343>

only a 4 times a week conection including both destination with A343, this will not work. more possible a 4/7 to bog and a 3/7 to lim direclty. but i doubt LH step in two new markets the same time. first bog and 1 or 2 years later lim again. we will see

regards
Avianca



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8942 posts, RR: 40
Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4551 times:

reinstall the MUC-GRU flight just after 6 month Varig beginns....

RG is doing 4X weekly and LH 3X weekly, at least that's what it was supposed to be before GRU-MUC-PEK got delayed.

I doubt we'll see the A380 here anytime soon... We'll see other destinations, possibly served by RG, connecting Brazil to Germany in maybe a few years, depending on RG's situation.

I think a 7X weekly POA-SSA/BSB-FRA can do well.

Serving 1X daily A380 to a country the size of Brazil don't make much sense.

As far as GIG goes, I think they will leave the city temporarily.

Cheers,

PPVRA



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4393 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4525 times:

See Hardiwv, you didint have to correct me just for the pleasure of it, as you were awfuly wrong, check your facts next time.

Anyway, I dont know about LH´s plans but they are a little aircraft short and they are more focused on Asia right now. Maybe when they recive the new A340-600s they could re-start BOG and LIM, but I dont see that happening in 3 or more years.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineJohnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4409 times:

yep, i agree with the last post.

may i add two more points in regard to GIG and EZE.

i think the main reason why LH now dropped GIG again is that it wanted to serve both EZE and SCL on a daily basis via GRU. (apparently FRA-EZE-SCL was not that succesful) so GRU-GIG had to go.
however, should LH one day re-introduce EZE again as nonstop and still keep the 2nd daily GRU, i could imagine that GIG could come back online again.
i agree that GIG itself does not seem to be a lucrative destination, but as an add-on onto the GRU leg LH would only require a small number of pax to gain a contribution from the GIG service to help cover expenses so it could make sense.

some post suggested that LH should use an A343 nonstop to EZE. i'm afraid that's never gonna happen. believe it or not, a fully loaded A343 (at least the older ones) has already a hard time making it nonstop to GRU (despite its great range) and even the A346 can't take all the cargo on one of the trips (i think it's on the westbound leg). EZE is pretty much stretching the range and payload capabilities of LH's A340 fleet.

rgds
daniel



If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
User currently offlineTGV From France, joined Dec 2004, 874 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4393 times:

Interesting development, so LH and AF will serve CCS with daily flights as of March/05? It seems they were quick to capitalise on KL and BA withdrawal.

AF has already been flying daily to CCS for more than one year.

For the summer schedule (March 27th) they will only increase capacity, changing the A343 for a B744.



Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans. (AF/KL for example)
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4498 posts, RR: 72
Reply 22, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4387 times:

I wouldn't hold my breath for any Lufthansa expansion in South America. The airline seems to be firmly focused on Asia, and is aiming at opening new destinations and boosting frequencies both in China and India. So the little extra longhaul capacity that might become available is sure to be deployed in that part of the world, and, if anything, I expect Lufthansa to shrink in South America, by eventually closing SCL. Let's just say that Chile is getting a very last chance with this new daily FRA-GRU-SCL routing.



User currently offlineChiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2004 posts, RR: 16
Reply 23, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4379 times:

Does LH have any partnership to connect pax onward from CCS to LIM, and/or BOG?
LH publishes fares via CCS:
to BOG with AV and VH
to LIM with TA and VH
to UIO/GYE with VH
within Venezuela with R7.


User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4343 times:

My guess on LH routes:
MEX and GRU get A380 service. Anything else is just an opinion.


25 Hardiwv : I expect Lufthansa to shrink in South America, by eventually closing SCL. Let's just say that Chile is getting a very last chance with this new daily
26 JoFMO : Some of you sound too pessimistic about SCL. LH serves SCL daily since a couple of years. The only think that has recently changed is, that they serve
27 Lamedianaranja : So, to go nonrev this summer AMS-CCS, would you recommend LH or AF? AF has the bigger a/c but would it be more fully booked?
28 Avianca : it is a big mistake what a lot of think to focus only the brazil market. Allot of countrys in South America are growing in special Colombia, why shoul
29 RCS763AV : I used LH from BOG to MAD via FRA. It was b/c LH was nice and obscenely cheap. LH has a good reputation in Colombia. Many people still transit at CCS
30 Avianca : for example my wife and my parents also only like to travel with LH via CCS to Colombia... and for me, I am always tooks the cheapest no matter what a
31 Post contains images Aero : Hi guys... My LH information sources have confirmed: There are NO plans of dropping SCL from LH´s network. LH has always been successful at SCL, spec
32 Avianca : Hey Aero totally agree with you only not in one point. I don´t think LH is very sucessfull in the Cargo Market to SCL. Rates are still good and fligh
33 Hardiwv : I don't see any sign to worry regarding SCL. I agree that SCL is the weakest in South America for LH, but I can't see any sign that they gave them som
34 Arcano : I expect Lufthansa to shrink in South America, by eventually closing SCL. Let's just say that Chile is getting a very last chance with this new daily
35 Avianca : >Any reason for this? I also assume that LH's new routing via GRU will also compromise most of the cargo to GRU, without leaving much space for the on
36 Aero : Do you think that SCL had a bigger share of LH's flight FRA-EZE-SCL? Well, most of the Business Class passengers from FRA head to SCL instead of BUE.
37 Avianca : regarding the freight yes, because LH uses the 2 freighter per week to EZE for the local freight. The higher percentage of the freight on the FRA-EZE-
38 RCS763AV : Regarding the restart of BOG, what LH could do is cut CCS to 4x weekly and go BOG 3x weekly, like it did in the past.
39 Chiguire : Regarding the restart of BOG, what LH could do is cut CCS to 4x weekly and go BOG 3x weekly, like it did in the past. In terms of costs it would be si
40 RCS763AV : ...Just wait until AV starts FRA, which is a fact. It doesnt matter if they do well or not, they will add seats and Colombian PAX will probably take A
41 Avianca : >...Just wait until AV starts FRA, which is a fact.
42 Hardiwv : Actually, Chile is giving LH a last chance if we want to talk of last chances Chilean people will always prefer LAN for going to FRA, so LH demand wil
43 Avianca : >Any information on type of equipment, frequencies and route (nonstop or stop in MAD?).
44 RCS763AV : Sorry for the misunderstanding. Well, its not like they did a press release, but Efromovich already said he wanted AV in Europe and quickly, thats wh
45 Chiguire : In case Av opens FRA LH will of course lose some passengers to Colombia. But also to Ecuador and Peru. Maybe even Venezuela itself as AV will most pro
46 Hardiwv : Efromovich already said he wanted AV in Europe and quickly Why FRA? Couldnt AV go back to London (LGW) or, better, CDG so as to compete (or complement
47 Avianca : Germany and in special FRA has a big Colombian comunity. >FRA is just a medium-sized town< Rhein-Main area has more than 4 millon of people. Just a fe
48 Avianca : Hadriwv, don´t get me wrong, but always in your posts regarding new flights to and from FRA you let us know that FRA can not fill the flight? Please
49 SOUTHAMERICA : Does AV still have a partnerhsip with AF? Sort of. They do not codeshare, but both companies have an efficient cooperative agreement for easy connecti
50 Avianca : >So what? Just take a wild guess about how many of those passengers that will be carried daily from Bogota and Paris are actually connecting traveller
51 RCS763AV : FRA and LON dont have competition, AV will likely go there. Also, as SOTUHAMERICA says, CDG has an O/D but not as much for more than 7 flights a week,
52 Arcano : Both statements are rather pretentious. Not really, just take a look about market share figures outbound SCL and see how the Chileans tend to prefer L
53 Hardiwv : AV has a strong codeshare with IB, which includes one of the Madrid-Paris flights, and it seems to be working out just fine. Wouldn't be surprised if
54 Chiguire : If LA flights are always full why doens't LA start flying nosntop to FRA? That flight fills in MAD. I often use LA for FRA-MAD-FRA. There are always
55 Marambio : If LA flights are always full why doens't LA start flying nosntop to FRA? Mainly because the distance between Chile and Germany is too large for the
56 Hardiwv : Well, most of the Business Class passengers from FRA head to SCL instead of BUE. Economy is a different story.... Interesting fact. Mainly because the
57 Lima : Yes gentlemen, but do not forget cargo! Maybe loads are low but LA carries valuable cargo to Germany (i.e.seafood or raw materials) that justify the A
58 Post contains images Chiguire : By the way, does Iberia codeshare on this flight's MAD-FRA segment? They could be quite interested, and since both are in Oneworld... Yes, they do....
59 Incitatus : >I think a 7X weekly POA-SSA/BSB-FRA can do well. >Serving 1X daily A380 to a country the size of Brazil don't make much sense. >As far as GIG goes,
60 PPVRA : Incitatus, If you combine POA and BSB or SSA I thought maybe they could fill a smaller aircraft (767/332 or something like that). GIG can easily be co
61 Marambio : Marcos, Air France is again investing in a nonstop SCL-Paris flight this year. Back in 2001 they operated this flight but did not last long. I wonder
62 Post contains images Aero : i´m always telling people here not to forget the Cargo business as well as the regional sector. Almost 50% of LAN´s revenues results from the Cargo
63 FlySSC : AF programm to South/Central America, starting March 28th : MEX : 11 x Weekly (Daily B772ER + 4 x Weekly B744) CCS : Daily B744 BOG : Daily A343 CAY :
64 Post contains images SOUTHAMERICA : Actually, Marcos, AF already long-announced the re-launch of nonstops to SCL, and surprisingly, it will be on a 772 with full L'Espace Premier and Af
65 FlySSC : EZE keeps daily service in 772, unchanged. Right. But with a quite higher offer in terms of seats, as 4 of the 7 weekly flights will end in EZE... Ab
66 Post contains images Hardiwv : KL will offer daily flights AMS-GRU with the B772 (following the Dutch frugal tradition, only biz and economy, since KLM does not have First on any o
67 Hardiwv : About AF, you must add to the program mentioned above the KLM flights I presume that if you consider AF+KL together they are bigger than IB in the reg
68 Avianca : don´t think that the other airlines in special LH will disregard the traffic SouthAmerica. regards Avianca
69 FlySSC : Hardiwv, You HAVE now consider AF+KL, especially to the destinations served by both airlines. The "Fare combinability" is now a reality, and it works
70 Hardiwv : I must say that it does not work so well on the KLM side...you almost never get any combinality when trying to book a flight on KLM website; the same
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