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LH And AF Dominate Europe  
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3862 times:

Data released today from the European Airline Association:

Top European Airlines in terms of pax (2004):

1. Lufthansa 48mil

2. Air France 44mil

3. British Airways 35mil

4. Iberia 25mil

5. Alitalia 22mil

Top European Airlines in terms of load factor (2004)

1. KLM 81,8%

2. Lufthansa 78,2%

3. Virgin Atlantic 77,4%

4. Air France 76,1%

5. Iberia 75,2%

6. Swiss 75,0%

7. Icelandair 74,5%

8. British Airways 74,3%

9. TAP Portugal 74,2%

10. LOT 73,9%

Top European Airlines in term of increase in demand (2004)

1. bmi 23,3%

2. Finnair 23,0%

3. Icelandair 21,1%

Top European Airlines in terms of increase in capacity (2004)

1. CZA - Czech Airlines + 23,0%

2. bmi + 20,4%

3. Austrian + 19,1%

Comments and reactions? I was disappointed to see that BA is being left behind by both LH and AF.

http://www.aea.be


18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3799 times:

This is the link with the complete data set for all European airlines member of the EAA:

http://www.aea.be/AEAWebsite/DataFiles/Pr05-007.pdf


User currently offlineTripple7 From Netherlands, joined Aug 1999, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3700 times:

Too bad the major LCC are not included in this data sheet. I think it is also interesting to look at RPK's. In my opinion this is a more important statistic. If you look at RPK's, it is interesting to see that AZ, SK and IB score relatively low as compared to AF, BA, LH and KLM.

When you take into account the AF-KLM as one, they are the largest airline in terms of passengers by far. Almost 65 million!

[Edited 2005-02-16 14:14:30]

User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6926 posts, RR: 63
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3651 times:

"Left behind"? I know what you mean but size isn't everything (as they say...) BA these days is focusing on being profitable rather than being the biggest. In the long run it's the correct strategy.

User currently offlineBCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3638 times:

I am also disappointed to see that BA is being left behind by both LH and AF. However, when you consider that BA has competition on home ground from VS and bmi, does AF or LH have competition from other legacy carriers based in the same country?

Apart from LCCs and charter airlines I cannot immediately recall any other German or French FCC that could pose threats to LH or AF.




MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
User currently offlineTeva From France, joined Jan 2001, 1872 posts, RR: 16
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3565 times:

Bcal, for AF, I can give you their main competitor:
SCNF, with their TGV high speed trains.
AF does't fly to BRU anymore. The Thalis train is just faster and cheaper.
MRS , LYS and NTE have lost a lot of traffic at the arrival of the train
Teva



Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19233 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3486 times:

I don't think the results particularly surprising. It actually adds to my theory that, in time, there will be three main airlines operating on a hub-and-spoke system in Europe LH, AF/KL and BA - with the point-to-point flights being operated by (at this time, an indefinite number of) low-cost, no-frills airlines.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2501 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3464 times:

I am quite surprised about those figures. I thought BA would come second. Do BA figures include franchise operations???


Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3452 times:

there will be three main airlines operating on a hub-and-spoke system in Europe LH, AF/KL and BA

It makes sense.

Hub 1: FRA = LH

Hub 2: CDG = AF

Hub 3: LHR = BA + VS

Taking into account that there is a possibility of a potential merger IB+BA, creating Europe's biggest airline group.

Rgs,


User currently offlineKLMA330 From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 697 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3414 times:

Would a merger between IB and BA create an airline larger than KL/AF Group?
Just wondering  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3384 times:

In terms of pax number:

1. AF+KL+AZ = 87mil (AF+KL = 65mil)

2. BA+IB = 61mil

3. LH = 48mil (LH+LX = 57.4mil)

Rgs,


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7412 posts, RR: 57
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3338 times:

Hardivv,

I agree that now, we must consider AFKL together, not AF alone, or not KL alone.. but why AF+KL+AZ ??? it doesn't make sense to add AZ.

Or in that case, you should consider LH+SK, or LH + OS ...

Note also that CDG is the HUB N°1, and not N°2, in terms of number of connections offered daily.


User currently offlineMozart From Luxembourg, joined Aug 2003, 2182 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3266 times:

Hmm, you guys keep looking at the "number of pax" aspect of things. Now what REALLY surprised me is the INCREASE of 23% for bmi!!! How? Why? Does that include bmibaby?

Also, why so much more increase for AY and FI? AY I can see because of their operatoins to Asia where they leverage their geogrpahic position, but FI?


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3233 times:

I agree that now, we must consider AFKL together, not AF alone, or not KL alone.. but why AF+KL+AZ ??? it doesn't make sense to add AZ.

I added AZ to the AF+KL numbers so as to compare with a possible merger IB+BA. It is known that there have been talks of AZ getting together with AF+KL, and BA with IB, but nothing official or concrete as yet.

Here is the TOP 15 list, including AF+KL merged (in terms of pax, 2004)

1. AF/KL 64mil (44+20mil)
2. LH 48mil
3. BA 35mil
4. IB 25mil
5. AZ 22mil
6. SK 20mil
7. TK 11mil
8. LX 9mil
9. OS 7mil
10. TP, BD 6mil
12. AY, JK, OA 5mil
15. VS 4mil

Interesting that TP made its way up to the top 10; surprised to see VS at the bottom of the list!

Rgs,


[Edited 2005-02-16 17:38:41]

User currently offlineFlyLondon From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3110 times:

If you draw up a list of the top ten in terms of RPKs it is much closer:
(Millions)

1. Lufthansa 109469
2. Air France 106830
3. British Airways 106463
4. KLM 63002
5. Iberia 45765
6. Alitalia 33860
7. Virgin Atlantic 30080
8. SAS 24022
9. Swiss 20532
10. Austrian 17529

And then take these figures to calculate average revenue kilometres per passenger:
(Kilometres per passenger)
1. Virgin Atlantic 6950
2. KLM 3102
3. British Airways 3003
4. Air France 2398
5. Austrian 2300
6. Lufthansa 2268
7. Swiss 2210
8. Iberia 1773
9. Alitalia 1520
10. 1179

No surprise that VS is on top given that they only fly long-haul but it seems that both BA and KLM fly a greater proportion of their passengers long-haul than AF and LH who carry more passengers in Europe. In the long-run this bodes better for BA and KLM as profit are made in long-haul and not inntra Europe. Plus when you consider that VS creams off a large proportion of the long haul traffic from BA things don't look so bad.


[Edited 2005-02-16 19:10:00]

User currently offlineIcarus75 From France, joined Oct 2003, 800 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3083 times:

Teva,
Thalys between Paris and Brussels is not a real competitor for AF : at least one railcar of some of the Thalys are reserved by AF.
You can also book a ticket to BRU with AF : it'll be a train ticket!



Flying is amazing!
User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5568 posts, RR: 36
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3005 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (reply 10):
In terms of pax number:

1. AF+KL+AZ = 87mil (AF+KL = 65mil)

2. BA+IB = 61mil

3. LH = 48mil (LH+LX = 57.4mil)


Why do you take LH and LX together? At the moment they have absolutely no links, on the contrary they are competitors. Why don't you take SK and OS to the LH numbers, this would make sense.

[Edited 2005-02-16 20:09:17]

User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2816 times:

Quoting Teva (reply 5):
Bcal, for AF, I can give you their main competitor:


Yes, but unlike the competition between BA and VS, you can't take the TGV from PAR to NRT or JFK. Similarly, you can't take VS from LHR to EDI, however they do have trains. At the end of the day, domestic flights are small potatoes compared to long-haul where BA and VS compete.

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2601 times:

it seems that both BA and KLM fly a greater proportion of their passengers long-haul than AF and LH who carry more passengers in Europe. In the long-run this bodes better for BA and KLM as profit are made in long-haul and not inntra Europe

I'm not sure AF and LH are not stronger than BA in long-haul flights. In addition, it shows that, different from BA, LH and AF managed to maintain their intra-European dominance. BA's fall in the intra-European market may just preclude its decline in the intercontinental market.

It also means that BA needs to implement new business management decisions, including the go-ahead to merge with another European airline: IB.

Rgs,

[Edited 2005-02-22 15:20:54]

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