FriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4004 posts, RR: 6 Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days ago) and read 2072 times:
Welcome to America...the expansion will go through one way or the other. The Mayor of Chicago supports it. The Governor of Illinois supports it. BOTH Senators from Illinois support it. The FAA supports it. Sorry all you Bensenvillians, but expansion is coming. Instead of wasting time complaining about it like the parochial participants that you are, why don't you start looking for a new house? The city offered to pay for it already, sounds like a plan to me...
As for being overbudget...just about every major construction dealy is overbudget. It was also calculated a few years back. The anti-realism people just hired a bunch of "aviation consultants" to tell the FAA they are wrong. Sorry boys, that ain't gonna fly. Just look at some the arguments they make and you'll see why.
Flying_727 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 428 posts, RR: 5 Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1941 times:
They better get started soon, other wise in a couple of years Blagoiovich won't be there to help. I know first hand that this governor isn't liked in IL and its a bi partisan decision, as the governor was Booed by students at a SIU basketball game.
If the mayor, governor, and senators don't push hard and fast, it may be the end of O'hare expansion.
MoMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1048 posts, RR: 4 Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1940 times:
How about Illinois just pays AA a billion dollars for AA to move all connecting ops to STL. This way ORD won't need to expand (saving $12 billion), there won't be as many flight delays, and the hometown airline (UAL) will become much stronger.
I know I'm dreaming, but the gov't is dreaming if they think ORD expansion is going to be a smooth ride.
Ckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 4653 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1903 times:
Let's face it, government projects almost always go over budget. Look at the Big Dig in Boston. Not to mention that the darn think leaks.
The fact that the Governor may lose his bid for re-election does not mean the end of ORD expansion. First, there are Republicans who support ORD expansion that may run for Governor in '06. If you want names, there is Bob Schillerstrom, president of the DuPage County Board, as well as Kirk Dillard, a state senator and chairman of the DuPage County GOP.
Second, the Mayor has a good working relationship with George Bush. This may explain to some degree why the FAA has been so accomodating so far.
Third, Sen. John McCain has made a number of unkind comments about the opponents of ORD expansion, including former Illinois Senator Peter Fitzgerald. McCain and Fitzgerald almost got into a fight on the Senate floor, and Trent Lott had to break things up. Personally, I think the former Navy flyer could have knocked the snot out of Fitzgerald.
My point is, however, that since McCain is chair of the Commerce Committee, he is supportive of measures that will improve ability of the air traffic system to move people in a timely manner, and ORD expansion is a key measure.
Fourth, Speaker Dennis Hastert is from Illinois and a supporter of both UA and AA. An expanded ORD will certainly be help them retain market share within the industry, so he is a supporter of ORD expansion.
Leelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1869 times:
Quoting MoMan (reply 8): How about Illinois just pays AA a billion dollars for AA to move all connecting ops to STL
Haven't TW, and subsequently AA proven through real world experience that their isn't enough O & D traffic at STL to sustain a mega-hub. Consequently, AA would probably stand to lose much more than a billion dollars in the long term if they went back down that road again. IMO, AA's current operation at STL with 200+ flights per day is just the right size for the market.
MoMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1048 posts, RR: 4 Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1805 times:
Quoting MoMan (reply 8): AA to move all connecting ops to STL
You're right about the O&D, but I'm only suggesting they move a good portion of connecting flights only. AA would still have O&D service in ORD. Instead of having a mega-hub at ORD and baby hub at STL, they would have close to equal size hubs at both airports. This would save ORD from expansion, save AA from chronic delays, and I think it would be well received by the traveling public once it they are given a chance to see how smoothly things would work.
Boeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1792 times:
Quoting MoMan (reply 8): How about Illinois just pays AA a billion dollars for AA to move all connecting ops to STL. This way ORD won't need to expand (saving $12 billion), there won't be as many flight delays, and the hometown airline (UAL) will become much stronger.
And give the largest O&D market in the nation to UA??? Not a chance.
Ckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 4653 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1749 times:
The only problem with cutting the size of the ORD hub and increasing the size of the STL hub is that Chicago is big enough to support 2 major hubs. St. Louis isn't big enough to support one major hub.
In the last 20 years, the metro Chicago area has grown from 6 million to 8 million, and there is no sign of growth slowing down. Housing developments keep going up farther and farther from the Loop, in all directions.
That's why ORD is still a hub for two major airlines.
Peotone will be needed at some point, but there is a need to set up infrastructure before that day. Right now, there is no rail service from the Loop. Both ORD and MDW have CTA lines, and there is a commuter rail line that serves remote parking at ORD.
The other problem for Peotone is that there is no direct highway access from the western suburbs, which has a lot of people and businesses. The extension of I-355 from I-55 to I-80 just started, about 10 years behind schedule. So it will be at least 10 years, before the extension to I-57 and the airport site starts.
Midway2airtran From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 864 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1719 times:
The expansion is pretty much underway and in the hands of the FAA, it is doubtful that it will be stopped. The critics can only gripe and complain now. Then realize how wrong they were when it gets going in the future. The new runway configs and new terminal should be a great benefit for everyone that flies not only in Chicago, but nationwide.
Leelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1691 times:
Quoting Ckfred (reply 16): the metro Chicago area has grown from 6 million to 8 million
Actually, the 2000 census reports there are slightly more than 9 million people residing in the "Chicagoland" area. I'm convinced that the AA and UA mega-hubs aren't located at ORD by accident, mistake, conceit, or a strange desire to lose money. However, there are vocal participants in these threads from Indianapolis, St. Louis, and elsewhere who sincerely believe that the dual ORD mega-hubs: are just a lot of overkill; unnecessarily cause congestion throughout the rest of the system; and that the proposed expansion/realignment is a costly boondoggle which will do little or nothing to remedy the congestion problems.