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Shanghai , Beijing? CO/DL/AA?  
User currently offlineCAL From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 499 posts, RR: 9
Posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3270 times:

Hate to start a new thread on this but I know we were supposed to have some kind of answer on the decision as to who was going to be getting the new route authorities.
With all of the "aviation experts" we have here at A.net I thought you guys might be able to come up with some time frame for the decision.
Or any other info, Thanks and take care all....


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.....and may the best man win......


CAL........Continental Airlines....... Work Hard, Fly Right
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAa777flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3155 times:

Word is that CO will be awarded the EWRPVG route.

User currently offlinePVG From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2004, 723 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3107 times:

Where does the word come from? Don't get me excited for nothing!

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32691 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3061 times:

The most likely scenario is that CO will get seven slots and AA will get seven slots. Delta, Hawaiian, and North American will probably be left with nothing.


a.
User currently offlineCo7772wuh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2973 times:

Accourding to the other threads related to this topic and the people I spoke at CO " who are getting sick of hearing from me " , it's up to the "DOT" US government and possiblly the Chinese gov as well ???

Wondering if CO may have an advantage since they were the only Airline to buy the 787 ???


User currently offlineCAL From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 499 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2819 times:

What does the 787 have to do with the routes that are awarded now, The 787's if CO gets them wont get here until l 2009........

[Edited 2005-02-17 21:41:11]


CAL........Continental Airlines....... Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2798 times:

Quoting CAL (reply 5):
What does the 787 have to do with the routes that are awarded now

ever heard of a kickback?  Big grin


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2791 times:

Only one new carrier will be named this year.

N


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7536 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2728 times:

The most likely scenario is that CO will get seven slots and AA will get seven slots. Delta, Hawaiian, and North American will probably be left with nothing.

Only one carrier will get it.

Edit: Gigneil beat me

Anyway, I think DL is most likely to get it, AA doesnt have a chance, neither does CO,

DL- Serve from Atlanta
CO- Serve from Newark, which their is already plenty of service to china anyway.
AA- ORD, yeah right, not with UA there,

However, I will say that all of these airlines will likely only depend on stricktly O&D traffic, since both UA and NW are much more prominant in Asia, let alone china, many asians are known for sticking with one thing regardless (as long as they like it)



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3471 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2696 times:

AA will not get the service. ORD-PVG is already serviced by UA. Hopefully DL will get the new service, if not, CO should get it.

Jeremy


User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2685 times:

Burnsie, where is this "plenty of service to China" that exists from EWR? Or from the whole NYC-area, for that matter?

Try one flight from JFK on Air China (I don't remember the code) and none from EWR at present. Considering that New York is the second largest market in the US from China for US-bound pax, I fail to see how one flight to JFK on a non-US carrier is considered plenty of service. ATL can't even compare in the amount of traffic. Keep in mind that HKG doesn't count as China service, as there are no restrictions for airlines to get slots to China from the US.


User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2666 times:

My money is on CO. Its not about the airline, but the region. Mr. Mineta wants to link China and the big apple.

User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2660 times:
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thats what is going to be the deciding factor i imagine.....a large business region like shanghai and georgia peaches? idont think so.......it is oging to be awarded to us here at CO.


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineCo7772wuh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2641 times:

I must concur with Cory6188 . If I'm not mistaken the NYC area is 2nd in terms of Asian population next to Arnold's Cal lee Forn ya !

I flew CA JFK to PEK . Service was fine however , CA caters to Asians so I was a little uncomfortable with the food , not that was anything wrong with the food !!! It would be nice to have a US carrier with non-stop flts to Beijing and Shanghai at EWK .

Juventus
Hope this is not a stupid question . Who is Mr. Mineta ?

Dave


User currently offlineCAL From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 499 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2617 times:

If CO was to get the route. Is there some kind of rule that states when and how many frequencies a week they must fly the route to keep it?


CAL........Continental Airlines....... Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineB4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2637 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2602 times:

Quoting Co7772wuh (reply 13):
Hope this is not a stupid question . Who is Mr. Mineta ?


Refers to Norman Mineta, current Department of Transportation Secretary.



B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineCo7772wuh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days ago) and read 2542 times:

Well, I hope that Mr. Mineta makes his decision soon , he's only about a month late .

Thanks for the info .
Dave


User currently offlineAlb222 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days ago) and read 2532 times:

Remember....the 2005 allocation goes to a passenger airline. The 2006 allocation goes to either a passenger or cargo airline.

CO has a good shot at the 2005 allocation.
DL did not apply for 2005 but rather for 2006. If a passenger carrier gets it, DL should because CO and DL would be operating from areas not currently served N/S by an American flag carrier. (Hong Kong does not count.)


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32691 posts, RR: 72
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2503 times:

AA will not get the service.

They have the most political support. That's what matters most.

ORD-PVG is already serviced by UA.

So what? NYC-PEK is already service by Air China.



a.
User currently offlineCAL From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 499 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2425 times:

Quoting CAL (reply 14):
If CO was to get the route. Is there some kind of rule that states when and how many frequencies a week they must fly the route to keep it?



CAL........Continental Airlines....... Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineAlb222 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2405 times:

Quoting CAL (reply 19):
If CO was to get the route. Is there some kind of rule that states when and how many frequencies a week they must fly the route to keep it?



There are 7 frequencies to be awarded in 2005 and 7 frequencies in 2006. Normally, the start time is initiated by the carrier requesting the slots in their filing. We are probably looking at July before a start-up at this late date.
If a carrier starts a route and does not fulfill its obligation as to days and frequencies flown, DOT can rule the route abandoned after 90 days and reassign them. This has happened too when a carrier received a route award and never started the route.....they can lose the route if another carrier applied vis-a-vis DL getting 5 frequncies from UA for ATL-GIG service as DOT determined these frequencies were abandoned.

[Edited 2005-02-18 04:20:53]

User currently offlineThucydides From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 95 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2349 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (reply 18):


Quoting MAH4546 (reply 18):
AA will not get the service.

They have the most political support. That's what matters most


Yeah, and look at all of the political support United had, and have they gotten a government backed loan yet? Last time I checked, they were 0-3, despite the fact that the Speaker of the House was making calls to the Treasury Secretary. Can't get much more support than that...


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32691 posts, RR: 72
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2342 times:

Quoting Thucydides (reply 21):
Yeah, and look at all of the political support United had, and have they gotten a government backed loan yet? Last time I checked, they were 0-3, despite the fact that the Speaker of the House was making calls to the Treasury Secretary. Can't get much more support than that...


There is a significant difference between financial support and support for getting a new route.



a.
User currently offlineThucydides From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 95 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2229 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (reply 22):
There is a significant difference between financial support and support for getting a new route.


Yes, there is a significant difference between a Memer of Congress, in United's case, the Speaker of the House personally calling the Treasury Secretary and a group of Members of Congress sending a letter to the Secretary of Transportation about a route authority. The letter goes into the file, the call gets returned and the Secretary must determine the impact on future requests that he and the President have of the Speaker. Not to mention that the United effort also included a large contingent of additional Members of Congress.

At the end of the day, the only way this political support would amount to anything would be if after all of the analysis is said and done, AA remains tied with CO or DL for authority. And then one would have to ask, what would the Secretary, and therefore the President, gain or lose by choosing between Texans arguing for Chicago route authorities and Georgians and other southerners arguing for ATL routes, or midatlantic/NYC representatives arguing for New Jersey based authorities.


User currently offlineGoCOgo From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2189 times:

Quoting Thucydides (reply 23):
AA remains tied with CO or DL for authority


AA can't be tied with DL as they aren't competing for the same authority. I think CO has a (very) slight edge over AA for this year, and that CO and DL are pretty even for 2006. The biggest thing against CO for the 2006 authority would be their getting this year's, with some arguing that one carrier should not get both. Personally, though, with the market NYC has for China service, I think CO should should get the routes. How many travelers from Georgia, Florida, and surrounding area are there who fly to China? Shouldn't O&D rule in selecting who gets the routes? I could be totally wrong, and if someone has O&D figures for China for the Northeast/eastern Midwest versus the South, please correct me. I have no idea how to get international O&D numbers.



"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
25 Thucydides : GoCOgo: While you are correct in saying that AA and DL are not directly competing for the authorities, the point that I was trying to make was that pe
26 The777Man : I fully agree with Thucydides; CO and DL would give the most public benefit and that's the critieria the DOT is supposed to go by when they make the d
27 Alb222 : Although I agree that CO and DL offer the best scenarios and combined with offering new American flag carrier services where none exist, I think DL mi
28 102IAHexpress : As mentioned previously there are a total of 14 frequencies up for grabs. There are seven frequencies available for March 25, 2005 and seven frequenci
29 Alb222 : First, welcome to ANet. Your post seems to imply that CO will win all 14 frequencies. Am I misreading something? Although I agree as stated b4, CO sh
30 Post contains links 102IAHexpress : When the new frequencies are announced in a couple of weeks there will be a total of 19 frequencies up for grabs. Seven frequencies are guaranteed to
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