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FAA May Close Some ATC Towers Starting 11 Pm  
User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4660 times:

http://washingtontimes.com/business/20050215-105712-6784r.htm

What are pilots at major airports going to use CTAF?

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUnited777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4636 times:

Boise and Spokane are just two of the airports on the list. How scary! Landing at an airport with no ATC!

User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12341 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4618 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

This could force airlines to cancel all flights that land at the affected airports after 11pm, which will have a ripple effect on all the airlines schedules.

User currently offlineKAUSpilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1963 posts, RR: 32
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4591 times:

Landing at uncontrolled airports or airports with part-time towers is no big deal. There would be no need to cancel flights to the affected airports. The airlines will just have to get their opspecs modified in order to allow ops with a clsd twr. We already do it at about a dozen airports.

[Edited 2005-02-17 09:28:49]

User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3420 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4492 times:

PVDs ATCT has been closing at midnight to 6:00am for years now...

User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6791 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4479 times:

FAY (Fayetteville NC) and GSO are also on that list according to a new article I read here..

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/2134188p-8515234c.html

The North Carolina airports on the list are Fayetteville Regional/Grannis Field Airport and Piedmont Triad International Airport in Greensboro.



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offline747firstclass From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4441 times:

Somewhere on airliners.net there was a recent thread where 4 DL flights returned to ATL late the other night due the shortages in the control towers at the destiantion airports of the flights. I am arfaird it is quite likely we will hear more of this thing.

User currently offline1MillionFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4417 times:

sorry but this title is misleading. SOME towers may close at 11PM not all. Also, it is perfectly safe to fly into an airport without a tower operating during slow times. ILS systems are on 24/7 and landing lights are available, and larger planes also have Ground Proximity warning and Traffic Collision Avoidance systems so really there very very little risk.


The vast majority of airplane (not airline) movements in the US go in and out of small uncontrolled airports daily.


User currently offlinePensacolaguy From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 548 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4414 times:

Quoting 747firstclass (reply 6):

Actually that post is here
http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/1961701/
And the planes returned because of bad fog not shortages in the control towers.


User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3541 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4320 times:

Yeah a lot of airports close their towers and approach control after 11pm. Center would still talk to the aircraft on the way down and the airplanes would cancel their flight plane when on the ground. no big deal at all, just have to pay a bit more attention


Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5310 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4254 times:

Let's face it, government bureaucrats like to try scare tactics, when funding appears short. The FAA wanted more money in the Administration's budget. When it didn't get its full request, the p.r. campaign cranked up, so that members of Congress will hear from the constituents. Congress will then increase funding above the Administration's request.

Let's see how many of these towers acutally close after the budget is approved later this year.


User currently offlineEchster From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4018 times:

It amazes me how a government organization formed with aviation safety clearly at the top of its mission list would even contemplate this move. NTSB data clearly shows more accidents occur at airfields using CTAF than when a control tower is staffed and operational.

User currently offlineGsoflyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1093 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 3856 times:

What's funny to me is that I can understand some airports that end up being really slow at night..... but GSO has has a hand full of Delta and US flights that arrive/depart during this blackout as well as probably 25 cargo flights.

And all this when cargo flights will be ramping up out of here in the next 6 months.


User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3541 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 3821 times:

Echster,

NTSB data shows that more general aviation accidents happen at airfields with just a CTAF. Airline accidents at CTAF airports are running in the same rate as airfields with a control tower. The only airline accident taking place at a non controlled airfield that comes to the top of my head is the United Express Beech 1900 that crashed ontop of a GA aircraft in Quincy Illinois in the mid 90's. That accident (in terms of how it happened) is comparable to a similiar accident involving a commuter and a US Air 737 at LAX (which obviously is controlled) that happened a few years before. Aviation accidents at CTAF airfields are proportional to the amount of traffic that airfield gets. Obviously if O'hare went uncontrolled there might be 2-3 incidents in one day alone.



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineZRB2 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 899 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 3779 times:

I heard about this last week. There was an article in the Buffalo paper about it (see link). Obviously they're not too happy about it.

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050217/1033444.asp


User currently offlineGOCAPS16 From Japan, joined Jan 2000, 4364 posts, RR: 19
Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 3769 times:

Class C and D airports doesn't require an operating control tower at those airports. I'm sure Spokane and Boise are under Class C airports...no big deal for the airlines.Pasangers shouldn't be afraid as these are professionals we are talking about..I see them doing traffic advisories on CTAF when im flying at night at uncontrolled airports after 2200 or 2300. Only airports requires a 24 hour facility tower are those on Class B, much more busier airspace.

Regards, Kevin



SIX T'S!......TURN. TIME. TWIST. THROTTLE. TALK. TRACK.
User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2507 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 3724 times:

Our tower here in GRR is closed from midnight until 0530 local time. We often get late commercial arrivals after midnight, and one of the FedEx flights arrives around 0500 local.

No big deal- Chicago ATC talks them down and gives them approach clearance. The arriving/ departing aircraft broadcast their intentions in the blind on GRR's tower frequency. Departing flights can get clearance delivery from Chicago ATC on the ground at GRR since the Chicago ATC transmitter is next to the field at GRR.



Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineGoBoeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2727 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 3686 times:

Airline flights regularly go into HDN, Steamboat Springs / Hayden, Colorado. It is interesting to watch an airliner do a full ILS complete with a procedure turn and hear the pilot make the basic VFR traffic reports.

There are already a number of towers that are part time. PWM comes to mind. If the traffic is not heavy enough I'd rather have them close at night for a few hours and be sufficiently staffed during the day rather than open all the time but understaffed when things get busy.

Nick


User currently offlineFlyMIA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7279 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3626 times:

I dont think airports like ORD MIA JFK LAX will be part of this list. Maybe smaller commercial airports.


"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineGoBoeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2727 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3616 times:

FlyMIA,

Definitely. JFK, MIA, LAX, and ORD probably have more traffic from 2 - 4AM than some towered airports have from 2 -4 PM!

Nick


User currently offlineSmcmac32msn From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3599 times:

MSN closes 2300 to 0500 each night. NW has an arriving flight at 2315 each night from MEM (I think) with the tower closed, I'm sure its no big deal for these pilots. They've probably flown into CTAF airports when they were learning to fly anyways. They should know how to handle it.


Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5310 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3570 times:

Some time ago, the FAA wanted to close the DPA (DuPage Airport) from midnight to 6:00. Besides the fact that management used the 24-hour tour as a marketing tool to get more biz jets, the belief was that with the congested airspace over the Chicago metro area, this meant more work for Chicago ATC.

So, the tower is open 24 hours.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26815 posts, RR: 75
Reply 22, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3553 times:

>Somewhere on airliners.net there was a recent thread where 4 DL flights returned to ATL late the other night due the shortages in the control towers at the destiantion airports of the flights. I am arfaird it is quite likely we will hear more of this thing. <

The pilots were full of $hit. They were making up the excuse to give to the pax on the flights that were not able to land because of fog conditions and a lack of Cat IIIb ILS. A tower will always have at least minimum staffing to handle its needs.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineAirportugal310 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3720 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3531 times:

Quoting PVD757 (reply 4):
PVDs ATCT has been closing at midnight to 6:00am for years now...



Got into this situation with them just the other night around midnight. No biggie...they cleared us for our approach in New Bedford and told us there was no other traffic observed between us and EWB.

Wheres the worry?



I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offlineSonOfACaptain From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1747 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3406 times:

When my dad first joined US, he would fly into airports where the tower had been closed all the time. He did this with mainline jets too, so if the FAA does do this, safety should not be a concern. After all, most pilots got their start flying into non-controlled airports.

-SOAC



Non Illegitimi Carborundum
25 Pilotpip : 95% of the time pilots do visual approaches anyway. They do have eyes and ears you know? The controllers have a job but the pilot is still the one con
26 Meister808 : This really isn't a big deal... I would wager that 95% of the pilots flying airliners that weren't trained by a military branch picked up most of thei
27 Burnsie28 : I bet the controllers are not going to be happy with Bush. He doesnt think that we need anymore controllers, well guess what, a lot of them are unders
28 Pilotpip : If he had it his way, ATC would be privatized Burnsie. Then it wouldn't be his problem at all.
29 N766UA : And since the president can do absolutely nothing regarding controller hiring or funding besides can them for striking, it's a non-issue.
30 Gsoflyer : "Still - not a big deal. I don't see any reason for the FAA to pay 4 guys to sit in a windowed room to hold the hand of 10 planes an hour, at most. If
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