Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
CO Exec Calls DL Pricing Stupid  
User currently offlineJMV From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 241 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 5223 times:

In a Wall Street Journal article, CO President Jeff Smisek told financial analysts that DL's Simplifares are stupid.

"Simplifares are simply stupid," Smisek said at a JP Morgan conference Thursday. "Our friends in Atlanta kind of finished off the domestic system for us."

Executives at NW and AA concur that the pricing program is harmful to their companies.

Who is really dumb here? DL, or the Lemmings that followed? If they don't believe the pricing is smart, why the heck did they match it? Why aren't the boards of these other airlines calling for the heads of their executives for matching pricing that perpetuates the red ink?

To paraphrase Forrest Gump, "Stupid is, as stupid follows!"


Google begins where my brain ends! ©
69 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3705 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 5161 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Actually it is "Stupid is as stupid does."


Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 5098 times:

Cry me a river. DL is just doing what it finds essential to staying afloat, and if CO doesn't like it, they can come up with their own reaction. After all, it's not that yields were that great before DL announced Simplifares.

User currently offlineSwadispatcher From United States of America, joined May 2004, 427 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 5091 times:

Because if they don't follow the price cuts, they don't usually get the Customers.. pricing tends to influence 85% of people's buying habits on airfares.


Maintain 2300 until Boiler, cleared for the VOR-A approach, report BATLE inbound..
User currently offline762er From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 542 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 5084 times:

DL is going to be hurt by their pricing more than anyone else because they have the most out-of-whack cost structure. You'd think they'd get their costs in order to justify the fares. They've done the opposite. What, did they think that other airlines weren't going to match. The other airlines have no choice.

User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3514 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 5078 times:

"Cry me a river. DEL is just doing what it finds essential to staying afloat,"


The point is they actually do the opposite. There are three big problems for airlines in the US:
1. Fuel prices (beyond their control)
2. Overcapacity
3. Low fares

So what did Delta do? Increased capacity and lowered the fares even more. Nuts That is insane!

Obviously competitors must match prices to avoid loosing customers.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20732 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 5057 times:

It wasn't so long ago that airfares changed so infrequently that airlines could actually print them in their timetables. There was a fare listed for first, coach, sometimes night coach, and an advance purchase fare named something like "Discover USA." That was it.

With the right to fly anywhere they want at any time they want, airlines were also allowed to charge whatever they wanted. It's called a level playing field.

CO and other airlines have had 27 years to adapt to deregulation. If they've not by now rationalized their fleets, streamlined operations, and come up with a marketable fare structure suitable to the across-the-board standardization of service predicted to come about in 1978 by Alfred E. Kahn, former head of the CAB, then it's too late to be calling innovations by other airlines as "stupid." Instead, they should just come right out and say they would prefer to be regulated again.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineCopter808 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1105 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4929 times:

Jeff actually made that statement about a week and a half ago to CO employees. He probably made it long before that as well!

Further reducing fares below cost to provide the srevice is not wise.


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6630 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4897 times:

Further reducing fares below cost to provide the srevice is not wise.

DL isn't lowering fares below cost. They simply lowered outrageously high walk-up fares to more reasonable prices. Trust me, a one-way ticket for $499 still covers the cost. DL also raised many of the fares in the lower, advanced purchase fares.

CO is simply unhappy, because they do not want to face reality. CO's management is extremely inflexible and unwilling to change. While CO many be stronger now, if their management doesn't wake up and face reality, CO may find itself in real trouble.

Keep in mind, much of CO's success the past ten years had NOTHING to do with management skill. CO's management rode their extremely low-cost structure (caused by the 2 BK's in the early 90's) to financial success. Now, other airlines are lowering their costs (inside and outside of BK) and CO's management isn't quite sure what to do.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20732 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4879 times:

Quoting Copter808 (reply 7):
Further reducing fares below cost to provide the srevice is not wise.


The Simplifares, as I understand them, reduced the very high walk-up fares, along with removing some restrictions on advance purchase fares such as Saturday night stay requirements. I've read that some of the lowest fares actually went up 10-15%.

Honest question -- is $599 one-way across the country in first class below cost?



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMidway2AirTran From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 864 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4874 times:

I think the comments and releases from competing Legacy carriers is simply helping DL's simplifares, funny that they are following the same trend on fares too. These type of comments fuel general public perception that DL simply slashed all its fares when in reality they raised fares for the majority of passengers.

Could this little PR gimmick really be a under-the-table collusive effort of the legacy carriers to raise yeilds on the bottom out pricing and attempt to turn public attention away from growing LCCs? I believe that it's a possibility.

Just a little conspiracy theory to the mix  Big grin



"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4859 times:

Danny,

"The point is they actually do the opposite. There are three big problems for airlines in the US:
1. Fuel prices (beyond their control)
2. Overcapacity
3. Low fares"

The thing about overcapacity is a myth. They was overcapacity after 9/11, but how many people do you know that are still refusing to fly? If there was so much overcapacity the airlines wouldn't be having record loads and constantly new routes opening.

Jeremy


User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3806 posts, RR: 29
Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4782 times:

Further reducing fares below cost to provide the srevice is not wise.

Simplifares are not the culprit (nor is overcapcity) with regard to the yield-depressing pricing insanity practiced by the U.S. legacies. The real issue behind below-cost yields is the totally senseless loss-leader fares that the legacies continue to offer in the interest of market share and load factors above all else, including profit. With load factors and pax numbers at all-time highs, the market will absolutely positively bear higher fares, especially if there is consistency in what pax can expect to pay.

BTW, since CO and NW are among the harshest critics of Simplifares, they should do Delta a favor and terminate their alliance with DL. For Delta, it would be a significant step in the right direction.


User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4751 times:

BTW, since CO and NW are among the harshest critics of Simplifares, they should do Delta a favor and terminate their alliance with DL. For Delta, it would be a significant step in the right direction.

Because the alliance is actually helpful to all the airlines. It provides each of the airlines more choices to send customers where they want to go and attract new customers who need to go to those places.

Besides, even when the NW/CO alliance was announced, it was made a point that the carriers will still be competitors in the market, but if you need to lean on one another to make a buck, then so be it. You can still help out each other and be competitors at the same time.


User currently offlineZone1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1035 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4740 times:

Quoting Midway2AirTran (reply 10):
I think the comments and releases from competing Legacy carriers is simply helping DL's simplifares


I fully agree. When average Joe Consumer reads in the newspaper, CO CEO mad at DL's cheap fares, what airline do you think he will check out when he requires airline travel? The buzz created by Simplifares is tremendous as seen by the amount of traffic to delta.com. The new commercials are ridiculously stupid though.



/// U N I T E D
User currently offlineLegendDC9 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4721 times:

I think many are missing an important point. Delta is in trouble. Delta did not lower fares in order to get more passengers and fill up their aircraft with more low fare paying passengers. Delta is simply playing "chicken" with the airlines that are even in deeper trouble than it is (UA, US, TZ), knowing they would have to match fares in order to compete. In order to survive, DL (and any airline for that matter) needs one of the big players to simply die out. By reducing fares, simplifying and what not, they are cutting off more and more revenue to the industry. The airlines that have the deepest pockets and lowest operating costs will be the ones to survive. As soon as a major player dies out, fares are going to jump, because or reduced competition and less traffic.
Overcapacity is not a myth, it is alive and well. seriously, do we really need 80 daily flights between LAS and the LA area? or 60 between SEA and the bay area? These flights run at 50% capacity during the week, and if those pax paid more than $100 for their round trip, they probably just didn't look hard enough.


User currently offline1MillionFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4702 times:

Quoting LegendDC9 (reply 15):
Overcapacity is not a myth, it is alive and well. seriously, do we really need 80 daily flights between LAS and the LA area? or 60 between SEA and the bay area? These flights run at 50% capacity during the week, and if those pax paid more than $100 for their round trip, they probably just didn't look hard enough.


Thanks for that I totally agree. Overcapacity is really true, even for LCC's !

I was on a WN flight on a Wednesday (2 feb) 7AM flight to CLE from BNA with 27 people on a 733. later that week going to MSY from BNA - Sold out both ways. Even WN has flights that arn't always full.


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4659 times:

Quoting Danny (reply 5):
So what did Delta do? Increased capacity and lowered the fares even more. Nuts That is insane!

You mean increasing capacity through planning the retirement of 52 100-seat 732s, 26 120/128-seat 733s, 16 150-seat MD-90s and 15 200-seat 762s over a 4-year period? Definitely sounds like adding capacity  Yeah sure .
Quoting Zone1 (reply 14):
I fully agree. When average Joe Consumer reads in the newspaper, CO CEO mad at DL's cheap fares, what airline do you think he will check out when he requires airline travel? The buzz created by Simplifares is tremendous as seen by the amount of traffic to delta.com.

Absolutely. After all, when you have a 300% increase in website visits over a three-day period, it seems you must be doing something right.


User currently offlineWarszawa From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 727 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4651 times:

Quoting JMV (reply 0):
If they don't believe the pricing is smart, why the heck did they match it?


Continental has matched it in some markets, but from what I see, Northwest hasnt, at least from my experience searching for tickets from Florida. I was trying to get home TPA-FNT (one way ticket) in March and have been checking everyday since mid - January. I've come across Continental fares that were around $120 or so...and Deltas would stay around $114.70.

I preferred Northwest, which is why i didnt book. This Tuesday i gave up waiting, and booked Delta TPA-CVG-FNT for $114.70 One Way...still a pretty good price.

Over the time i compared fares since about mid-january, the cheapest i've seen TPA-FNT was $217 one way for Northwest, and that was an evening departure. For the morning flights (around 8am or so)... as of last Tuesday, Northwest wanted about $370 one way, totally ridiculous. Checked the seats on the 757 flight for TPA-DTW (not going to mention DTW-FNT since thats irrelavent to this topic), basically about 95-97% empty...pretty pathedic.

Didnt want to risk waiting longer so thats why i went ahead and booked Delta. But, anyways, like i said, Northwest from what i see hasnt really matched anything (in response to DL that is...they have in some AirTran markets out of FNT), at least in the Florida market.



Flying a plane is no diff. from riding a bicycle. Its just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -'Airplane'
User currently offlineLawgman From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4611 times:

I recommend everyone take a quick read of the following presentation given by Robert Milton of Air Canada back in November. I think it explains what Delta might be trying to do and what the legacies are doing wrong (though the presentation was primarily about Air Canada).
http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/me...ons/documents/041118_wingsclub.pdf


User currently offlineCasInterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4670 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4587 times:

Delta's prime interest in this is to go ahead and get US air to go out of business. If Delta can
1. Lower fares
2. Increase plane utilization
3. Lower costs.

It has the chance to lower the revenue stream that US air is still depending on for it's survival.

Delta has help in this endeavor. Southwest starting service in Pittsburgh and Airtran in Charlotte. These moves going to start putting more pressure on US Air.

Also lately here in RDU, COMAIR has started adding more traffic to cities such as Tampa , Ft Lauderdale, New Orleans and Orlando, and actually connecting them through to Boston, New York, and DC. This is a bit of a change from what I thought was an O&D model for RDU. They are directly competing with a lot of US Airways Express routes. Slowly but surely US Air is going to go away. Or they are going to take a lot of other airlines down.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4927 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4573 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Delta was simply looking into the future and realizing that the industry is not going to be able to offer walk-up fares of over $1000 much longer. As others have mentioned, it's mostly these walk-up fares that have been reduced; the advance purchase low fares are already so low in some markets that they simply cannot go much lower. Yes, this causes a revenue dip in the short term but not too many people were buying those $1000 fares anyway. The legacies cannot rely on those businessmen-gouging $1000 fares to subsidize their $99 fares any longer as WN, B6, and others are already offering business-friendly walk-up fares and starting to draw more and more of those customers away from the legacies.

Delta is in the middle of a very aggressive cost reduction plan that should allow them to support this kind of permanent fare structure in the future. The other legacies are only trying to delay the inevitable (eventually, some LCC will start infiltrating NW's markets and NW will have to face the music as well). DL is already battling with LCCs in 70% of its markets, anyway.


User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2991 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4565 times:

JetBlue's CEO, David Neeleman, renamed Delta Simplifares as "Simply Rip-off Fares" after explaining that the highest one-way fare between NYC and OKC is $499, -TYS $419, and -BWI $349.

I guess no airline is happy about this new fare structure, but it won't effect the LCC's in the least IMO. Therefore, the CEO's of the legacies - such as CO - have every right to complain.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 4527 times:

JetBlue's CEO, David Neeleman, renamed Delta Simplifares as "Simply Rip-off Fares"

Has anyone else noticed that since Delta announced the SimpliFares, so many LCC CEO's are shitting bricks and trying to talk them down?

Just like right after the SimpliFare announcement, FL had a half page in the Atlanta Journal Constitution with Joe Leonard talking about how Delta's move was revenue negative for them and was a mistake.

Now, lets look at that and use some common sense. Why would Joe Leonard be worried about that? Wouldn't he get a huge kick out of Delta shooting themselves in the foot? If DL's move is wrong, why not laugh if off, sit back, not say anything, and watch the circus unfold? Instead, both Leonard and Neeleman are trying to talk them down, trying to get some folks to believe it and put pressure on DL that the move is wrong.

Time will tell, but by taking a long look at the Simplifares strategy, I believe its here for the long run and will be a huge success, just not within the first quarter or two.


User currently offlineQuestAir From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 367 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 4511 times:

It sounds like something that ex-CEO Bethune would say.


'Do we carry rich people on our flights? Yes, I flew on one this morning and I�m very rich.' - Michael O'Leary
25 DAL767400ER : Or the press release the put out over the net: "We have checked our fares, and we are still cheaper than Delta." Well, duh, DL never announced lower
26 WindowSeat : Easy for Neeleman to take pot shots at Delta and criticize them on routes that jetBlue does not fly on. WAIT! You can't have it both ways. Either Del
27 Wjcandee : It's important for the LCCs to get out there and counter SimpliFares by saying, "Quite simply, OUR fares are lower. Our highest fares are lower, and o
28 LegendDC9 : "Has anyone else noticed that since Delta announced the SimpliFares, so many LCC CEO's are shitting bricks and trying to talk them down?" As much as I
29 Iowaman : No, loads are higher than ever.
30 B4real : Funny how AA matched it then...
31 Ctbarnes : Stupid as compared to what? The current way the industry sets fares? Now THAT's stupid! Charles, SJ
32 LegendDC9 : Iowaman, it's not just about the loads, if the availability is there to fly for dirt cheap, then people will fly. But with such low yields, it doesn'
33 1MillionFlyer : exactly LegendDC9 Iowaman, planes are full only because fares are so low. Again too many seats chasing too few passangers willing to pay a fare where
34 FLYACYYZ : There is nothing innovative, nor revolutionary about DL's pricing structure. It is simply a carbon copy of AC's revamped North American pricing struct
35 Phollingsworth : Legend, You have it pretty much correct. If you look at the $ yield per revenue passenger mile, in constant dollars, since 1978 you will notice that
36 LegendDC9 : I really like how this thread became a yield analysis exercise. So in even simpler terms, DL lowered fares in CVG (which has been notorious for high O
37 WindowSeat : . All these examples given above are classic Revenue Management. The key measure is your Revenue per Available Seat mile. This measure combines load f
38 TinPusher007 : While I can appreciate CO and everyone else's contempt for DL depressing yields with Simplifares, I believe DL had no other choice. CO does not face n
39 WindowSeat : . Delta has been brought up in many of our discussions in Revenue Management and how the principles are applied to businesses like the airline and hot
40 B4real : What?? I'm a 4 year top level Medallion and have never heard of this. I know CO and AA have it. Any links on this?
41 Artsyman : CO does not face nearly the amount of low far competition that DL does. **** Continental faces LCC price competition on 78% of their route network. I'
42 Tango-Bravo : Especially if Simplifares are unrestricted (ie fully refundable, no fee to change). Can someone confirm whether Simplifares give business travelers t
43 B4real : Simplifares do not imply unrestricted / refunable / no fee tickets. However, Y/B/M fares for coach are still available for sale.[Edited 2005-02-18 02
44 WGW2707 : CO is simply unhappy, because they do not want to face reality. CO's management is extremely inflexible and unwilling to change. While CO many be stro
45 OzarkD9S : Bottom Line: Delta is trying to steady their own corporate ship. If others don't like it, too damn bad. The folks at Delta aren't terribly concerned w
46 MaverickM11 : "No, loads are higher than ever." At average fares that are lower than ever... If fares returned to the average of 2000 tomorrow, that load factor wou
47 Midway2AirTran : If the majority of your passengers are actually paying more, the average fare will naturally become higher. DL may have actually raised their own ave
48 Airportugal310 : The armchair CEO-ing in the thread is at an all time high (or low).
49 Ckfred : I personally think DL made the right move, for the long run. There are times, as a leisure traveller, that I don't want to stay over a weekend. Maybe
50 Avek00 : "So to sum up the opinions of management at NW, CO, and AA, of which I'm a shareholder, they have no clue what they are talking about." LOL! To the co
51 AA767400 : It wasn't so long ago that airfares changed so infrequently that airlines could actually print them in their timetables. There was a fare listed for f
52 1MillionFlyer : AA767400 up to 1978 before deregulation. I saw these when I was really little kid and for CO and AA they literally had the city pair and the price for
53 Tango-Bravo : Actually, in taking a look at my timetables, the end of fares being printed in timetables came sometime around 1972. Even by the mid 1970s (a few yea
54 JMV : Avek00, If the fares are good for DL, but not the other carriers - why did the other carriers match DL's program? Why does this lesson from my childho
55 SESGDL : JMV, WN actually has the largest market share of any US carrier, as the largest domestic airline. DL is a close second. Jeremy
56 StevenUhl777 : Well, with US and TZ maybe, but there is very little route overlap between DL and US. I don't believe that DL is trying to go after UA with this Simp
57 Pdxflyer : Delta is going to do what is good for Delta. The fact that the CO pres hates it only confirms for Delta that they are on the right track. I think they
58 Avek00 : "If the fares are good for DL, but not the other carriers - why did the other carriers match DL's program?" Because the airline business is one of the
59 Post contains links JMV : SESGDL, I stand corrected. Based on domestic emplanements, indeed WN has the largest market share. Thank you. http://www.bts.gov/press_releases/20...2
60 Post contains images WindowSeat : You mean DL's pricing ingenuity, right? .
61 Post contains images Avek00 : "You mean DL's pricing ingenuity, right?" No, I said stupidity, and meant it. It would have been ingenius if it helped US to drop dead post haste ( ),
62 WindowSeat : Revenue dilution would be if they were pricing tickets lower than people would have purchased at the higher price anyway. Delta never said they lower
63 B4real : Only AA matched it with a 'revolutionary' new fare structure. Other carriers matched directly competing routes.
64 Post contains images AeroWesty : T-B may very well be right, it was somewhere in the 70's that this practice was stopped for most major airlines. It was the year after deregulation c
65 Avek00 : "So, while it may seem revenue dilution, it is a clever tactic to gain market share and by doing so increase revenue." For Delta, perhaps. For CO and
66 1MillionFlyer : They are not being forced to do change their fares. Once again, there is overcapacity in the marketplace supply and demand is forcing them to react t
67 CTHEWORLD : AeroWesty, Maybe re-regulation isn't such a bad thing...remember, it was Kahn that also said deregulation didn't turn out the way he thought is would,
68 FlyBeQ400 : Yield management is a fact of the airline industry now, especially in Europe. Whether the marginal seat is sold at $49 or 99 cents for the low-yieldin
69 WindowSeat : Avek00, First, you called Delta's pricing insanity. When I said it was ingenuity, you called it revenue dilution. When I said it was a clever tactic
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Financial Update: AA&CO Shares Soar, DL Needs Time posted Fri Oct 20 2006 23:31:06 by Dutchjet
How Long Has CO Been Using DL Gates At T6, LAX? posted Tue Jul 12 2005 11:17:24 by B-787
CO 764 & DL 772 Due In FLL Sat Pm posted Sat Apr 2 2005 22:38:44 by Falcon flyer
DL/CO Or All DL MSP-DAB posted Thu Jan 27 2005 19:38:58 by KaiGywer
Redeeming CO Miles For DL Flights- How? posted Fri Jan 7 2005 04:09:08 by AA737-823
No CO Segments On DL? posted Thu Jan 6 2005 20:47:52 by Ramerinianair
New Life To CO Purchase Of DL? posted Wed Jun 16 2004 22:56:09 by Nealcg
CO Emergency @OKC-DL Runway Mishap @DFW posted Fri Jun 11 2004 18:34:31 by Contrails
CO 757 Vs DL 757 posted Mon Jul 1 2002 17:16:28 by Bhmal
Former CO Exec Greg A Trader! posted Fri Dec 28 2001 00:04:04 by Seven37s