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Confused About UA Flight #3, OGG-KOA?  
User currently offlineShawn Patrick From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2608 posts, RR: 16
Posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2993 times:

Hi, I am a little confused about United flight #3! Apparently it goes ORD-OGG-KOA-ORD, but I'm not so sure.

This flight status page is consistent with that:
http://dps1.travelocity.com/dparcobr...dep_dt_yr_1=2005&dep_tm_1=9%3A00am

Also, when I search for OGG-KOA on the UA timetable under "City/Airport Timetables Screen", it shows there is a daily nonstop OGG-KOA on a 777, flight #3. Okay...

But when I search for OGG-KOA under the "Scheduled Flights Screen", this flight doesnt show up.

Also, when I try to search www.itn.net or travelocity for this flight, it doesnt show up.

So what's the deal with this??
Thanks!

Shawn

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2962 times:

shawn,
UA sells the flight in this order.....ord-ogg,ord-koa,ogg-ord and koa-ord...they do not sell any seats between ogg and koa....it might have to do with the code share agreements between ua and aq



bus driver.......move that bus:)
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2957 times:

It's a circular routing (not sure if that's the technical term). One-stop service ORD-KOA via OGG, nonstop service KOA-ORD, it doesn't backtrack through OGG before returning to Chicago. This service just began in December, so I haven't flown it yet and I'm not sure how they handle the passengers returning to ORD from OGG while the plane is being serviced in Kona.

User currently offlineGoCOgo From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2901 times:

I imagine the KOA stop is mainly there for fuel. OGG has only a 7000' (if that) runway. They probably can't get a 777 with the fuel to get to ORD off that runway. AA does the flight with a 763, so that's probably why they can do the flight direct.


"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2867 times:

Quoting GoCOgo (reply 3):
I imagine the KOA stop is mainly there for fuel.


Actually, I think UA is trying serve both OGG and KOA directly from ORD with the single flight using the 772. IIRC, UA has dropped one of the daily SFO/KOA roundtrips in favor of this scheduling. NW has adopted similar routing to OGG and KOA with a 752 from one of its west coast gateways.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2807 times:

Quoting GoCOgo (reply 3):
I imagine the KOA stop is mainly there for fuel. OGG has only a 7000' (if that) runway.


AA does ORD-OGG-ORD just fine.


Quoting Leelaw (reply 4):
NW has adopted similar routing to OGG and KOA with a 752 from one of its west coast gateways.


Though the Kona stop on Northwest's SEA-OGG-KOA-OGG service actually is because of fuel reasons. The 753 was having heavy weight restrictions on SEA-OGG-SEA, so they added KOA.



a.
User currently offlineUAORD2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 267 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2778 times:

the reason for the stop in koa IS for fuel reasons. Not enough runway to get to ORD without heavy weight restrictions from ogg, so the flight goes to koa to fuel up.

User currently offlineShawn Patrick From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2608 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2773 times:

So let me get this straight -

The flight goes ORD-OGG, then OGG-ORD via fuel stop in KOA? So all passengers flying to ORD embark in OGG, and no passengers get on at KOA?

Thanks for the help guys,
Shawn


User currently offlineUAORD2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 267 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2766 times:

passengers may embark in koa. United does not sell seats for pax who are just traveling ogg-koa. must be either ord-ogg, ogg-ord, ord-koa, or koa-ord

User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2734 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (reply 5):
Though the Kona stop on Northwest's SEA-OGG-KOA-OGG service actually is because of fuel reasons. The 753 was having heavy weight restrictions on SEA-OGG-SEA, so they added KOA.



When I was in Kona in December I was surprised to see NW operating these flights with 752s instead of 753s. I didn't realize they had ETOPS 752s.


User currently offlineGoCOgo From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2734 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (reply 5):
AA does ORD-OGG-ORD just fine.


Quoting MAH4546 (reply 5):
Though the Kona stop on Northwest's SEA-OGG-KOA-OGG service actually is because of fuel reasons. The 753 was having heavy weight restrictions on SEA-OGG-SEA, so they added KOA.


So your saying a 772 can get to ORD, 3636nm off a 7000' runway, but a 753 to SEA, 2294nm, can't without weight restrictions? Anyway, like I said, AA does it with a 763, UA does it with a 772. A UA 772 holds 348 passengers with a 515,000 lb or so max weight, while a 763 has a max weight of 400,000 lb or so.

Most likely UA goes to KOA because it does enable them to provide another destination on their own equipment. They could go to HNL or ITO, but they already serve HNL nonstop, and there isn't the demand for ITO. So they chose KOA.



"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2703 times:

Quoting GoCOgo (reply 10):
Most likely UA goes to KOA because it does enable them to provide another destination on their own equipment. They could go to HNL or ITO, but they already serve HNL nonstop, and there isn't the demand for ITO. So they chose KOA.


I think you're right, as I said in reply #2, IIRC, they've dropped one of the SFO/KOA flights in favor of this scheduling.

I don't believe ITO has had transpacific passenger service directly to the mainland in quite a while. I think the largest aircraft in there these days are FedEX MD-11s, and UPS DC-8s.


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3457 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2690 times:

KOA being the tourist side of the Big Island and ITO being more a port, it does not make much sense for a mainland to service ITO any more, AQ and HA provide enough lift to service Hilo. KOA used to have UA 742's to SFO, KOA has quite a long runway for it's size, guess thats why OGG does not have JAL serving it, even though they have the authority to do so, they chose to fly to KOA instead, even though the flight operates NRT-KOA-HNL-NRT, for a fueling stop in HNL, I guess the 742 or DC-10 used, can't make the trip back to NRT with a full payload. I don't believe it's for more lift HNL-NRT, they already have many flights each day in that market.


AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlineGoCOgo From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2680 times:

Quoting Leelaw (reply 11):
I don't believe ITO has had transpacific passenger service directly to the mainland in quite a while. I think the largest aircraft in there these days are FedEX MD-11s, and UPS DC-8s.


Absolutely right. Heck, I think Aloha and Hawaiian are reducing service to Hilo, too. Too bad, I like Hilo a lot. It just has a nasty reputation of raining all the time, but I think all that rain gives it a lushness the Kona can't compete with. Anyway, I was just trying to explain that UA did chose to go to KOA when there were other options to gas up. ITO has an 9800' runway that a 772 could make ORD from. But they go to KOA because it enables them to make the fuel stop of more use than simply getting fuel.

What I wonder is if the trip can be made open jaws with no penalty i.e. get off in OGG, make your own way to KOA to enjoy the Big Island while you are there, and then embark at KOA for the return trip, all for the same price of someone who booked ORD-OGG-ORD only. I think open jaws is the best way to go to Hawaii. Four year ago, I went CLE-DFW-LAX-(one day stopover)-LAX-HNL and returned OGG-DFW-CLE. Saved us a bunch of money not having to book a trip back to HNL to get home.



"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2646 times:

Actually, the runway at KOA is 11,000 feet. Most aircraft should be able to do MTOW out of there.

JAL/JALways has one flight per day into KOA operated with either 743s or DC-10s. The mega-resorts on the Kohala Coast of the Big Island are very popular with Japanese tourists. I'm not sure that every JAL flight through KOA originates and ends at NRT, IIRC, it alternates between NRT and another Japanese airport (just don't remember which one) depending on the day and season.


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