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AF Cabin Crew Fatality - RIP  
User currently offlineSammyhostie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 14351 times:

On Tuesday the 1st of February in Paris Orly, an Air France Cabin Crew died when she fell from an a/c, when the stairs where removed from the 2L door of an A320.

The door had been used to disembark a pax who needed an ambulance. The accident happened while she was standing on the stairs platform to close the aircraft door. The stairs were removed and she fell out of the a/c, while another cabin crew member managed to jump back into the a/c just in time.

The poor lady was only 27, had a husband and 2 young children.

Last year in CFU i remember a TCX temp fell out of a rear door on the 75 whilst doing the same thing, she broke her pelvis, knee and shoulder.

Take care all fellow hosties out there.

[Edited 2005-02-20 10:40:12]

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 14247 times:

Hi Sammyhostie,

It is indeed very sad to hear this - I have heard from a friend this happens a lot. I know most aircraft have a (very visible) band that is clipped across the exit when it's open, but no stairs/PAU present... Surely the person removing the stairs should ensure this device is used?

Condolences to her family.

BAW128



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offlineSammyhostie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 14217 times:

Yes we do put that across the aicraft door, but often when we pull the door in you balance one foot on the steps, and one foot in the aircraft to pull in the door to close it. So if the steps or whatever are pulled away you are caught unaware.

The airbus's are not usually too bad, but it certainly is very easy to fall out fo a door, especially on the Boeings where the doors are a lot heavier.


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12413 posts, RR: 100
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 14196 times:
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A link:
http://www.turkishpress.com/business...s.asp?id=050219222145.akeeq9dt.xml

A similar thread, but going into the union action this incident caused (posted a few minutes before this thread):
http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/1968358/

Poor lady... My condolences

Lightsaber



I've posted how many times?!?
User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 14160 times:

Aaah, I understand now. Sad though...


A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offlinePVG From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2004, 722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 14003 times:

Commercial airliners are such sophisticated machines. They can fly thousands and thousands of miles around the world during a typical 15-20 year or longer life cycle. Why can't they design them so that the doors can be closed with the push of a button and all that needs to be done is for someone to close the latch from the inside? They can do it for mini-vans, but not for a $100 million airliner? I can't believe that the electric motors would that great of a weight penalty?

Condolences to the young lady's family.


User currently offlineRunway25 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13932 times:

I think many people under estimate an FA's role. I as a passenger don't under estimate it & I would like to thank all FAs for "looking after me" on my regular flights.

This tragic accident proves their job can & does have dangerous scenarios.

My condolences to her family.


User currently offlineA340600 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 4104 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13891 times:

Condolences to her family, a great shame for something to happen like this. When you see them closing the doors, it always looks unsafe to me,

Sam



Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
User currently offlineSammyhostie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13821 times:

I dont mind closing airbus doors so much, but i hate and am honestly very scared when pulling in a Boeing door, especially when there is no steps there. There so heavy and we are so little!

User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 13691 times:

It's unbelievable that accidents like this one occur in the 21 century.

Poor young lady. Poor young kids.


User currently offlineAfboy From France, joined Jun 2001, 38 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 13591 times:

Air france has revealed that the ground agent is faulty because he didn't secure the stairs. The latter will very likely be punish. This has triggered the anger of the unions. and that's why ground agents at orly have decided to go on strike, which explains the mess at orly.
I personnally think that this is indecent towards the fa's family and relatives.
cheers



Flown: SF3, CRJ,CR7, AT7,E120,E145,146,RJ85,RJ100, F100, B727,732,733,734,735,736,772,A300,318, 319,320,321,343, M83, DC
User currently offlineZaphod From United Arab Emirates, joined Feb 2004, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 13532 times:

I walked into the Load Controller's office a couple of days back and I saw this poster there about Ramp Safety saying something like, Be alert when removing the steps, remember the AF F/A fatality.
I thought it was an old case.

This poster struck me because one of the BG staff here at DXB recently fell from the steps when the platform gave way. He was a catering staff who was climbing into the DC10 after some 70 odd passengers had decended. He suffered some serious injury but is now stable.


User currently offlineVictorTango From India, joined Jan 2005, 500 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 13390 times:

In 2003, at Bombay while boarding a Jet Airways flight a passenger died when he fell off the stepladder through a gap between the 737 aircraft and the left corner of ladder. After that incident all stepladders at Jet Airways were fitted with safety railings.

Olly


User currently offlineSwisswings From Switzerland, joined Feb 2005, 60 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 13249 times:

Sad story and I feel sorry for the f/a's family. I am not surprised to see such a thing happening at a Paris airport. I often travel through CDG and observe unsafe behavior of employees often. ADP, as the company that runs the airports in Paris, is not what I would call a state-of-the art airport administration company. The chaotic situations you encounter at all terminals in CDG, the unsafe behaviors of bus drivers as well as unsafe constructions are somewhat typical for ADP. Hopefully, they are willing to learn and improve...

User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 13195 times:

Swisswings - the sad incident happened at Orly airport - the crossroad of all french radical tradeunions ( SUD aérien,CGT...)..
It's time someone explains to these idiots that the customers they blocked and prevented from taking flights are the ones who pay their salaries...
But the intelligence level of these people does not go that far....



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineNYCAAer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 690 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 13166 times:

This has happened several times in the past at AA, but the F/As in question were injured, not killed, fortunately.

As a result, AA F/As do not open or close aircraft doors. Company policy is to have ground personnel open the doors from the outside, thus preventing this type of mishap.


User currently offlineNwacrew From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 12654 times:

NYCAAer:

Didn't an American Airlines steward die a couple of years ago at a Florida airport, when he opened the main cabin door prior to the aircraft being depressurized? (There was a pressurization problem) He was blown out onto the tarmac and killed...


User currently offlineAWspicious From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 12531 times:

It upsets me to no end when someone is killed in some stupid manner... Through no fault of their own. This unfortunate accident should not have occured! Yet, here we have a dead woman and two orphaned children all because some jackass didn't do his job properly.
There's gonna be those who question my haste to condem the ramp worker. But, hey... Tell it to the woman's husband... If the ramper was more attentive his wife would still be alive.


User currently offlineAirgeek12 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 12501 times:

That's really sad. I feel really bad for her family, though. I still don't really understand it all though. OK.. so basicly she was trying to close the a/c door so one foot was on the stairs thingy and one foot in the a/c, than the stairs pulled away and so she like fell out? geek

User currently offlineSwisswings From Switzerland, joined Feb 2005, 60 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 12306 times:

Beaucaire: You are right, the accident happened at ORY. But, in fact, it doesn't make a difference since both airports, ORY and CDG are managed by ADP and the status quo at both places is the same. A mess.

User currently offlineWdleiser From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 961 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 12277 times:

>>>Didn't an American Airlines steward die a couple of years ago at a Florida airport, when he opened the main cabin door prior to the aircraft being depressurized? (There was a pressurization problem) He was blown out onto the tarmac and killed...<<<<

I believe it was a 767 at MIA, had an emergency landing because of an indicated engine failure, the FA rushed to the door before the plane was depressurized, opened it, and was sucked out and died. There was no fire after the fact, just a false alarm.


User currently offlineSpirit MD-80 From Puerto Rico, joined May 1999, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 12207 times:

It was a A-300 not a 767

User currently onlineFlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7379 posts, RR: 57
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 11119 times:

Sammyhostie,

This terrible accident didn't occur exactely how you discriebed it.

The flight was arriving from BIQ (Biarritz). A passenger at the front was sick and there was a medical ermergency team taking care of him, so it was decided that the other PAX would disembark by the rear door.

After all the PAX have left the plane, the Captain asked to close the rear door. The two F/A stept out on the stairs platform to unlock the lateral safety panel that blocks the a/c door. At that moment, the stairs were removed. One of the F/A had just the time to jump back into the plane, the second one fell on the tarmac, between the stairs and the plane.

The normal procedure requires thet the ground staff, in charge of removing the stairs has to walk up to the platform and unlock the safety panel himself. The F/A are not supposed, and normally not allowed to do it.

Concerning the strike and the mess at ORY, everybody should be very carefull when talking about it. It is very easy to put the blame on one person only after such an accident.

The guy who removed the stairs (without removing the safety panel ) was recruited by AF less than two months ago and was nort properly trained (of course for saving money).
There is less and less ground staff to handle a/c, the same staff has to take care of the stairs, help for loading/unloading luggages, etc...
It is the same in all the airlines, always for the same good reasons : cutting costs and saving money.

And then, when a tragedy like this happen, it is always very easy to put all the blame on one person only, while the "Responsible Managers" who barely know what an a/c looks like (but took the decision to reduce the ground staff) stay comfortably seated in their office.

Morover, the police investigation about this accident is not finished yet. It is quite surprising and shocking that AF took already the decision to blame one person, in these conditions.


User currently offlineAlanUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 11008 times:

Hi all,

Sad story indeed. It has happen to a BA crew member too, but she survived, although badly hurt (it was a 737, not as high as others). Since then BA has put out a very clear policy for Cabin Crew to open or close doors:

- Never open a door until ground equipment is in place and you have received 2 knocks from ground staff
- then count to 10 before opening the door
- Never place a foot outside the aircraft (opening and closing of doors must be made using assist handle and never jetty/steps)

It used to be that if the APU was broken, we could open doors 1L and 2/4/5R to get some air going... not anymore due to this new policy. (unless steps are in place).


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 10951 times:

FLYSCC - sorry but the topic is why on earth do trade-unions provoke a strike - which has been re-conducted at 17.30 hours by the way and they threaten to harden it...- because of a ramp-agent who clearly has a track-record of mis-behaviour and clearly did not follow the rules!!!!
Thousands of passengers are penalised because SUD and CGT want to show their muscles and power regardless of a not even officially pronounced firing of the agent.
The hostess is dead,two children are without mother and all the trade-unions find is to rotten the life of thousands of those who pay for their salary. This is typical french "Klassenkampf" or fight of the working classes aginst the establishment - it's becomming political !
Orly and CDG have a long history of unneccessary work-conflicts and those who ahve a job with Air France,ADP or any other institution active on the two Paris Airports should be glad they have a job .
Thousands of airline-workers have lost their jobs in France within the last years -partly because of a rotten system in France that many accuse but nobody dares to chage because of fears that the trade uniosn will bring the country to a halt!
I have lived in many counties but France is probabely the most rotten place when it come to trade union influence and power !!!!

[Edited 2005-02-20 20:43:49]


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
25 CORULEZ05 : Something similar happened on a CO flight somewhere in Central America I believe. However, I dont think it was a crew member but a disabled pax...VERY
26 OB1504 : Technically he was pushed out by the escaping pressurized air, and as mentioned above, it was Airbus 300B4-605R N14056. It involved Boeing 757-224 N1
27 CORULEZ05 : Unfortunately, I myself know how hard it can be to lose family members, I have lost 5 immediate family members in the past 5 years.......so my heart g
28 UA777222 : Outside of restrictions and other issues that would cause this door to not go into an aircraft I don't think airlines are willing to fork up so much
29 Post contains images Airgeek12 : Thanks alot, FlySSC! I get it now, and that is really sad!
30 DLKAPA : Now out of idle curiosity, the thread starter mentioned that she was standing on the outside, on the platform, to close the door. If she was flightcre
31 Aa757first : [ I assume very little. The B767 features electric assist at door 1L and the L1011 features electric assist at all doors except the auxiliary service
32 September11 : AF cabin crew .. my sympathy to Air France and employee. all airlines will never forget this one. I am sure they will learn from death of AF F/A. I ho
33 UA777222 : That's totially irrelevant seeing how the L1011 and 767 doors were built into the design. Think about what it would cost and what it would take to do
34 Post contains links and images AsstChiefMark : "Air France cancelled half its flights out of Paris' Orly West air terminal due to a strike in protest over a worker being suspended after a flight at
35 PVG : Noted UA777222. I meant that the electronic doors should be incorporated into the initial design. I understand that a retro-fit is costly, difficult,
36 Post contains links and images 777WT : It was AA's A300 View Large View MediumPhoto © Allan Rossmore
37 Brons2 : Here's the full rundown on the AA A300 FA pressurization fatality accident, point your browser to this link at the NTSB website: [Edited 2005-02-21 07
38 Post contains links Brons2 : Here's the full rundown on the AA A300 FA pressurization fatality accident, point your browser to this link at the NTSB website: http://www.ntsb.gov/n
39 Post contains links Flick70 : While I have incredible sympathy for the family of the FA, there is some serious room for inquiry. I normally watch where I am walking/standing at all
40 Copter808 : OK, here's a thought for the AF employees... Instead of going on strike and losing pay, as well as alienating the passengers, why not continue to work
41 Sammyhostie : Its a good idea, but I dont think it will happen! They should name an aircraft after her perhaps.
42 Ts-ior : A similar accident happened for a Tunisair F/A in 2001. That was in Djerba (DJE/DTTJ) and the aircraft involved was an AB6. The F/A fell down after th
43 ATCT : As an old Ramp rat, I opened closed doors frequently, I never found them "hard" or dangerous. I mean they arent light or all, but with a good yank the
44 Sammyhostie : I know the actual action of closing the door isnt actually that hard in theory, but for us girlies it is harder to pull the door in, hence why we bala
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