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Qantas And The A380 Delays.  
User currently offlineQantas077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5861 posts, RR: 39
Posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10914 times:

seems there is some way to go with the A380.

A380 delays Qantas dogfight

By IAN HUGHES

February 21, 2005

STRESS fractures uncovered during testing of the new Airbus A380 mega-plane may delay an upping of the ante in the battle between Qantas and Singapore Airlines for market share.

According to reports from Germany's Der Spiegel magazine, Airbus engineers have failed to iron out problems encountered in stress tests.

There were "unexpected and significant difficulties" with the rear end of the plane when tests were carried out on it, the magazine quoted an insider as saying.

The landing gear is also causing engineers concern, the magazine reported, adding that the A380's first flight in March could be delayed by weeks.

full article at this link below.

http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/st...jsp?sectionid=1265&storyid=2695105


a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQantas077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5861 posts, RR: 39
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10785 times:

sorry, but anything weighing as much as a full A380 hitting the ground at 150kts is going to have trouble, imagine if the Japanese carriers got this on the D market and loaded it with 800 people and there luggage, the stress on landing would almost be to much to bare.


a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineOzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2723 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10744 times:

If you want to discuss the testing issues, there's already an active thread, so this is a duplicate.

On the topic of the impact on QF and SQ competition and the transpacific route:

i) About time QF got some more competition on this route

ii) What's this got to do with the A380 and any potential delivery delays?

Ozglobal



When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
User currently offlineWukka From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1017 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10697 times:

Quoting Qantas077 (reply 1):
sorry, but anything weighing as much as a full A380 hitting the ground at 150kts is going to have trouble,


That's not a real winning statement. 150kts isn't an excessive airspeed by any means during a touchdown... unless you're talking about a straight vertical descent without lift at 150kts?

I'm confused by this comment.



We can agree to disagree.
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2971 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10680 times:

Qantas077, keep dreaming. There will never be a A380 operating domestic routes.

User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10672 times:

Other thread entitled A380 testing problems has been deleted (I think).

Referring to the report in Suddeutsche Zeitung, last sentence is:

"Airbus hatte das größte Passagierflugzeug der Welt Anfang Januar vorgestellt und wiederholt betont, die Arbeiten lägen im Plan."

My German is not perfect, but my translation of this is:

"Airbus unveiled the world's largest passenger aircraft at the beginning of January and forcefully repeats that work is going to plan."

Any German speakers correct me please if I expressed "lägen im Plan" incorrectly.


User currently offlineQantas077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5861 posts, RR: 39
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10665 times:

Carpethead

it was a hypothetical, i know that the Japanse carriers will never operate it, they're to involved with boeing, i said "imagine if" if you can't see the hypothetical in that then that's your problem.

[Edited 2005-02-20 23:33:47]


a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5569 posts, RR: 36
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10615 times:

Art, your translation is correct.

User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10603 times:

Art, you were quite close - "wiederholt betont" is more along the lines of "repeatedly stated" and not "forcefully repeats" - but the rest of your translation is good.

Regards,
Frank



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8459 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10583 times:

Isn't the whole point of testing to discover these sorts of problems? I would also think that the media has, as they tend to do, probably blown it out of proportion to some extent.

User currently offlineQantas077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5861 posts, RR: 39
Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10553 times:

Bill
i think the point is, the plane has never flown and this is already a major issue for Airbus and it's engineers, it needs to be sorted yesterday.



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5569 posts, RR: 36
Reply 11, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10530 times:

Quoting Leskova (reply 8):
Art, you were quite close - "wiederholt betont" is more along the lines of "repeatedly stated" and not "forcefully repeats" - but the rest of your translation is good.


Of course you are right Frank, I just thought it won't matter in this context  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10498 times:

Quoting ZRH (reply 11):
Of course you are right Frank, I just thought it won't matter in this context


Actually, you're right - it doesn't really matter in this context... I just hadn't seen your reply when I wrote mine, which I wouldn't have posted had I seen yours...  Big grin

Qantas077, I think the real issue here is: is it really an issue for Airbus, or is it just an issue for the press? In other words - does the problem really exist? Or was it just a slow news day/week?



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineQantas077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5861 posts, RR: 39
Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10420 times:

well the fact that Airbus sighted this as a reason for the pushing back of the test flight and that it has Airbus, engineers and a customer like Qantas worried says it all.


a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineGlideslope From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1621 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10299 times:

Actually, I'm surprised any thread on this topic is not deleted from this site.

Let's hope this is not the beginning of a trend  Sad Were not talking about major advances in engineering on this airframe. There are no composites in the rear fuselage or gear.

IMO, I think this is going to become a larger story. There is more to the "crash diet" the airframe went on last year than meets the eye, IMO.



To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
User currently offlineQANTASforever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10128 times:

Wouldn't Qantas have some sort of insurance agreement - that would state that if the delivery of the A380 to Qantas was significantly delayed that QF would be eligible for compensation due to having to alter it's aircraft operations timetable?

QFF


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10085 times:


IMO, I think this is going to become a larger story. There is more to the "crash diet" the airframe went on last year than meets the eye, IMO.


We have ABSOLUTELY no idea what the issue is.

N


User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10042 times:

I am also a bit confused by the reporter's reasoning in tying A380 testing issues together with competition issues between Singapore and Qantas. The tie is pretty thin.

User currently offlineLockheed1011 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 156 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9885 times:

"Other thread entitled A380 testing problems has been deleted (I think)."

Art,
You are 100% right. It was deleted!  Sad

Freedom of speech does not apply when we talk about Airbus.
Deleted, banished, erased, finite................


User currently onlineCrosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2600 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9801 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

The original topic on A380 testing problems has not been deleted. It's been moved to Tech/Ops. Still there if you want to read it or post a reply...

Now what were you saying about freedom of speech  Yawn

Regards
CROSSWIND


User currently offlineTockeyhockey From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 952 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6508 times:

maybe i'm being too positive, but a good engineer wants to encounter some problems during testing. all that these problems indicat to me is that the design is pusing the efficiency envelope -- it is maybe a tiny bit too light or a tiny bit too heavy, too well reinforced, or not reinforced enough.

testing irons out kinks like this.


User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6445 times:

Today's comment from Airbus on the "problems:"

http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1108980578.html


User currently offlineMilan320 From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 869 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6212 times:

Quoting Leelaw (reply 22):
Today's comment from Airbus on the "problems:"

http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1....html



Well there you have it, take what Der Spiegel said and what Airbus said and average the two, and perhaps there is a problem but not as significant as Der Spiegel made it out to be. A bit simplistic perhaps, I realize, but any project of this size will have sensationalism and spin-doctoring.

/Milan320



I accept bribes ... :-)
User currently offlineB707Stu From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 918 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5983 times:

Here's what strikes me as a bit odd in the statement:
"The preliminary findings indicate we are moving in the right direction," said spokesman David Voskuhl on Monday. "No serious problems have been encountered."

An acknowledgment of "non serious problems." Obviously Airbus has mortgaged the farm on this aircraft and is in the middle of a very intense marketing campaign, let alone the chronic Boeing battle. Any "serious problem" with the aircraft would more than likely jeopardize those carriers on the fence about placing an order. I'd like to hear a rebuttal from Der Spiegel before coming to any conclusions.

No doubt the proof will be in the test flight and its ultimate date. Any impact on deliveries will soon be known. Airbus could be in a precarious position. Do we disclose something that really concerns us and alienate potential sales or do we not and if it does turn out major really hurt ourselves?

My gut tells me where there's smoke there's fire. The question is, is it a smoldering low grade fire requiring some unexpected attention or are we talking inferno?


User currently offlineAirbus3801 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1089 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5825 times:

Quoting Carpethead (reply 4):
Qantas077, keep dreaming. There will never be a A380 operating domestic routes.


I wouldn't be every so sure about that Qantas077. I am sure many of us thought that when the 747 came out.....


25 Gigneil : "We are not aware of the problems that the Spiegel is claiming," Voskuhl said. I think that pretty clearly states the position. There's not a major pr
26 TeamREGAL : I'd have to agree with Gigneil...For an aircraft of that immense size and weight, I'm sure "problems" would occur and that's pretty much true for any
27 Cedarjet : All new designs have problems - remember when that 777 had an explosive decompression during a test flight? A huge duct under the cabin blew loose and
28 1MillionFlyer : the CRJ700 test aircraft went into a non-recoverable flat spin and killed 2 people near Tulsa during that airplane's certifcation. If you look at the
29 Art : Not strictly on topic, Cedarjet, but this sounds... um, like you are inferring something about the carriers concerned: (Referring to 777 and A330) "..
30 Post contains links Brons2 : To clarify, that unfortunate accident was not the fault of the airframe. http://www.aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19940630-0
31 Cedarjet : 1MillionFlyer, those 727-100 landing accidents weren't "unknown reasons", the pilots flew the planes into the ground by allowing massive rates of desc
32 Aerofan : you know, some wise man once said there are 3 sides to every story. I think I'm going to wait for the truth- while keeping DS story and AB spin in min
33 Sonic67 : Of course their will be problems and delays on new AC epically one as big as the 380. Also the media may be making this into a larger problem than it
34 CM767 : Are you sure on that?, I do not recall any decompression in flight for the 777, There was one decompression on the ground on the first pressurized te
35 Cedarjet : CM, there was a major decompression event in flight on a 777 during the test phase. Others may know more but it was something to do with a duct, it di
36 OzGlobal : If feel like I'm not in on the joke... Can anyone explain what this has to do with transpacific competition between SQ and QF?
37 Qantas077 : OzGlobal, the longer it takes the 380 to get into the air the longer it's going to be before we see the QF vs SQ battle for premium pax and premium ro
38 OzGlobal : I'm sorry, but why? Both airlines fly 744's with similar premium F and J products. The battle could start tomorrow. If it were a question of 744 of S
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