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NW's IND To LGA And MCO  
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4570 posts, RR: 18
Posted (9 years 8 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3854 times:

Just did some checking on the earlier announced NW route upgrades from IND to LGA and MCO. It looks as if starting 5/8 the service from IND to LGA will be 3 daily flights. 1 CRJ (#4777), 1 DC-9 (#148) and 1 A319 (#146).

But as for the change to make the 2nd seasonal flight a regular flight doesn't seem to be loaded into the schedule system. Not sure if they haven't gotten around to making the schedule change or if there was no truth to the MCO story. Just have to guess on MCO since I have yet to see an official NW press release on it.


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSendMEtoLAS From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 66 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3750 times:

I hope they don't add another MCO flight from IND. We've got plenty of non-stop service already(WN,TZ,FL, and the new comer NW). They should focus on a new non-stop route for IND.
If I was calling the shots at NW, I would focus on adding frequency with CRJ's(not that I prefer RJ fights) rather than adding a ton of seats with DC-9's. Right now they need to think of ways that will continue expansion without lowering fares. This factor alone will make or break success for NW at IND.


User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3806 posts, RR: 29
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3713 times:

Quoting SendMEtoLAS (reply 1):
I hope they don't add another MCO flight from IND. We've got plenty of non-stop service already(WN,TZ,FL, and the new comer NW). They should focus on a new non-stop route for IND.
If I was calling the shots at NW, I would focus on adding frequency with CRJ's(not that I prefer RJ fights) rather than adding a ton of seats with DC-9's.


Why??? Among the legacies, NW has been the most conservative and cautious about adding capacity in their markets. The announcements concerning upgrades to their IND-LGA/MCO services tells me that demand (which is willing to pay fares that are fair to NW) at IND has met or exceeded their most optimistic expectations Smile

On a different, but related, subject, has NW indicated whether their IND-PHX-IND flight (A319) will be year-around?


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4570 posts, RR: 18
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3637 times:

I haven't seen anything but that flight seems to be loaded from day 1. Just do a search on flights from IND to PHX starting tomorrow and look at the seat maps. Speaking of NW. I still have to dig my camera out of my travel bag, find the cable for it, and upload the pics I took from the NW area of IND.

Bummer. My inside concourse A shots turned out blury. I think I forgot to adjust the camera settings after taking the outside shots. I'll upload what I can and take more pics inside in two weeks.

[Edited 2005-02-23 05:12:19]


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineSendMEtoLAS From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 66 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3608 times:

Why??? Among the legacies, NW has been the most conservative and cautious about adding capacity in their markets. The announcements concerning upgrades to their IND-LGA/MCO services tells me that demand (which is willing to pay fares that are fair to NW) at IND has met or exceeded their most optimistic expectations

Right now fares are still very low for IND-MCO. For most of the dates, R/T fares are in the $140 range (not counting spring break or this month, not long after March TZ will be down to one flight a day to MCO). When fares are low, usually it means 2 different things are happening, 1. Excess capacity, and (or) 2. fierce competition for market share for that routing. I would think it would be rational to not add seats if fares are still this low.

Also, to my surprise, I can still get cheap non-stop flights to LGA (even for dates after the cx TZ service). US and NW are still competing like discounters in IND. That's good for me, and bad for the airlines. Oh well, what's new.


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4570 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3589 times:

Remember FL is coming in with I believe two daily flights to MCO in May. I'm not sure picking up a 2nd MCO flight for NW in the summer is a good idea. Trying to remember these numbers but as it stands with what NW is supposedly doing the would have two daily flights to MCO, FL would have two, TZ one and WN one (maybe two). So we would be looking at 6 daily flights to MCO. That just seems like alot for service to a non hub city. I realize that many people on the east coast fly out of MCO but thats still quite a few seats. Maybe it isn't bad. I mean the only empty flight I've ever flown to MCO was out of MDW. So maybe there is enough demand from IND. Every flight from here to there has been I'd say 90%+ full that I've been on. And I've been on a bunch.


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineLambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2078 posts, RR: 36
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3579 times:

FL is starting IND-TPA/ATL.

MCO is a very strong, but weak yielding market out of IND (and every other market). So we'd be looking at 2 by NW, 1 by TZ and WN a piece. Certainly not overkill on a route with nearly 1000 passengers a day. The route could probably support up to 6 flights a day or so.


User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9412 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3578 times:

AirTran is doing one daily to Orlando beginning in June. They start in April with one to Tampa and three to Atlanta. Down the road I look for AirTran to connect IND to Baltimore, or possibly La Guardia, and perhaps Sarasota, Ft. Lauderdale, and one more to Atlanta.

NW on the other hand is not adding a ton of seats. Even with their upgrade to two mainline a day (as I predicted), following the ATA dismantle of four flights a day to La Guardia, there are still less seats. But with US Airways still flying that route, the fares should still be competitive, especially with the prices US Airways has been offering lately. For the future of La Guardia, as I mentioned above I would not be surprised to see AirTran begin service there. If they don't, then I look for US Airways to begin flights mainline, or perhaps even American Eagle to come in, depending on the market. Of course Continental could always take advantage of it and throw a few mainline to Newark. Time will tell, but I for one would like to see AirTran, if anyone, expand at NW. NW continued expansion & dominance will just drive up fares.

As for Orlando...Orlando is one of the top destinations from Indianapolis and has been historically. In the past there have been as many as seven flights a day on four airlines.

I'm guessing NW will keep Phoenix year around since ATA is pulling the IND-PHX route, unless America West steps up service, which I predict they won't since they historically always seem to remain idle during these opportunities.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4570 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3576 times:

STL.. My wife flew HP once. Them keeping idle here is perfectly fine by me  Smile/happy/getting dizzy . Still is a bit sad to see part of IND history go away (TZ). I wonder if TZ customers would have been loyal to them had they chosen to raise prices by 5% or 10% to help recover some fuel costs? It seems from a previous article that had fuel prices not doubled from 2003 that they would have turned a profit this year. Is there no loyalty in the airline industry?


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3806 posts, RR: 29
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3564 times:

It is good to see a legacy "thinking outside the box" as NW has done at MKE and IND by putting some of their aircraft to better uses than shuttling to and from their hub cities all day every day. Seems like IND (as well as MKE) have worked well for NW -- perhaps even better than they anticipated.

Has there been any further word about NW's announcement that, following the major drawdown of US Airways operations at PIT, they are considering the same at PIT as they have done at IND and MKE? Since WN announced PIT as their newest city, it seems like NW has been silent about their plan for possible expansion at PIT by adding point-to-point services in addition to their DTW/MSP flights.


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4570 posts, RR: 18
Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3545 times:

I'm not really sure how much US has pulled out of PIT. PIT has supposedly lost their hub status even though they have something like 170 daily US flights. Or will US scale back even further?


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineSendMEtoLAS From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 66 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3523 times:

It seems from a previous article that had fuel prices not doubled from 2003 that they would have turned a profit this year. Is there no loyalty in the airline industry?

i think customer loyalty is has been dead for the last few years, with the exception of WN. Expedia.com, has reported over 1.1 billion in bookings per quarter in 2003. I'm sure the figure has grown for 2004 quarters.

Sites like Expedia, Travelocity, and Orbitz have forced competitive pricing. Consumers have always worked hard to compare fares, now they can compare the carriers without making countless phone calls to find the lowest fare.

And that's what it's all about, the lowest fare. That's why IND has had the jump in passenger numbers.

It's a matter loosing or winning, red or black ink. Any carrier can lead in departures and say they own an airport, but if the flights loose money, the operation is worthless.


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4570 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3514 times:

Do you think NW is making any money in IND or are they just filling jets for the sake of driving out the competition? And once the competition is gone the prices will go up significantly?


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineZID From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 294 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3448 times:

Indy, no ATA wouldn't have garnered much loyalty. Until very recently ATA has been a vacation oriented low-cost carrier. Vacation travellers don't, and can't, care about loyalty. For the father booking a flight for his family of six to Orlando, he's booking travel on whichever airline has the lowest fare.

Business is where the loyalty lies. If you have good service with a comfortable business section offering frequent and convenient service to multiple destinations, and can get a company enrolled in your frequent flyer program - that's where you get the loyalty. That's one of the reasons why Northwest is here. Indianapolis is one of their largest business frequent flyer cities.

As for IND-MCO, they have 1,068 daily passengers in that market, so the passengers and chance for profit are definitely there. Now if only somebody could win the airfare war on that route, so that the remaining airlines can charge reasonable but not ridiculous fares. Which is what it appeared we were on the verge of having with Delta's withdrawal and ATA's stumble. (we all know that if NW & WN were the last two standing on this route, and if NW would raise it's IND-MCO round trip fare to $198, WN would also raise their fare), but with the arrival of AirTran, we're right back to square one. Let the battle begin.

As for IND-LGA, the Indy to New York market sees 884 daily passengers, so I think that 12 daily regional jet non-stops, and 3 daily mainline non-stops, in addition to 2 daily Southwest one-stops to ISP, are probably enough. The one thing I would think might make a little money would be an American Airlines non-stop to their new terminal at JFK.



I'm not joking! This is my job!
User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3806 posts, RR: 29
Reply 14, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3348 times:

Quoting SendMEtoLAS (reply 1):
If I was calling the shots at NW, I would focus on adding frequency with CRJ's(not that I prefer RJ fights) rather than adding a ton of seats with DC-9's.


Since LGA is a slot-restricted airport, would NW even have the option to increase IND-LGA capacity (in response to strong demand) by adding more RJ frequencies?


User currently offlineSendMEtoLAS From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 66 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days ago) and read 3307 times:

that's a very good point.

User currently offlineNwafflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1050 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days ago) and read 3302 times:

What about more gates for NWA at Ind? 5 sure crams things in there, and even though the A concourse security has added another check point, it's still pretty bad to get thru

User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4570 posts, RR: 18
Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3269 times:

If it were me I'd do everything in my power to get out of "A". Even if I picked up no additional gates I'd want to claim the 5 that TZ is giving up. "C" is just much nicer. They could try and get WN to move and pick up their 3 gates even if they added no more flights. Just to reduce the crowd.

On the issue of slots I guess about the only thing NW can do is increase jet size right?



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9412 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3220 times:

What's the point of moving to C? Sure security lines are long at A, but if you move to C, you'd have even longer lines to deal with with both C & B. Work on expanding your own operations out of A, sweet talking SWA to move from A and then that way you can set up your own dedicated security system for your WorldPerks Elite members/First class passengers. After all, isn't the high number of WorldPerks members the reason why NWA hella expanded in the first place?


if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4570 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3204 times:

Good point on the security line. As a matter of a fact when I was at the airport the other day and waiting in line at B/C I heard a traveler ask specifically about a dedicated line for first class passengers. My only point with C was the quality of the building.


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineNwlover From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3195 times:

NW shoud think about adding more cities out of MKE. Some ideas such as IAH, SEA, SFO, BOS, and possible a seasonal to JAC. Does anyone know if NW has considered some of the vacation hot spots of Mexico out of MKE?

User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4570 posts, RR: 18
Reply 21, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3170 times:

Aren't they even more space restricted in MKE than IND?


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineZID From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 294 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3122 times:

No.

In Indy NW has only five gates in Concourse A with no chance of using the other three because of WN.

While in MKE, NW has gates 64 through 69 in Concourse E, and their buddies at CO sparsely use gates 62 & 63, so I'm sure that NW could use those every now and then. Plus gate 60 is used quite a bit by FL, but gate 61 just sits there waiting for somebody to use it. So in Milwaukee, Northwest has unrestricted potential access to seven gates with a possibility of using two other gates for a few flights a day.



I'm not joking! This is my job!
User currently offlineZID From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 294 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3126 times:

In Milwaukee, Northwest's greatest impediment to adding service isn't gate space but rather just waiting for that darned Midwest to die like ATA did in Indy. Because unlike ATA, Midwest has a nice contingent of loyal business flyers, so their death grip is a little stronger than ATA's.


I'm not joking! This is my job!
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