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NZ Call EK A Parasite  
User currently offlineAerohottie From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 802 posts, RR: 3
Posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 7454 times:

Ralph Norris, CEO of Air New Zealand while announcing the companies 6 month results today described the Tasman route as a "blood bath", and accussed airlines such as Emirates of capacity dumping, an anti-competitive act in any other industry other than international aviation (or so it would seem). Emirates' New Zealand regional manager replied that Emirates operate well within its operating guidelines and complies with all regulations and agreements. They went on to say that Emirates were allowed onto the route to increase competition, and are now accussed of being too competitive.
Ralph Norris described the behaviour of some of Air NZ's competitors on the route as "parasitic". On top of this is it widely understood and recognised that Qantas operating on the tasman route and domestic New Zealand are also losing money. Air New Zealand also believe Qantas are also being anticompetitive on their domestic New Zealand services, using the other parts of their network to subsidise this service.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3198471a13,00.html


What?
65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12189 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 7351 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Also read in todays paper that AKL demands all airlines that operate to AKL to pay up to help the airport pay for upgrades for the A380 when AKL is loaded with cash. The airport is also planning a 1 month runway upgrade, starting next month.

User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2238 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 7312 times:

Aerohottie,

Mr Norris' statement on the website you mention is far more diplomatic than your summary Big grin

Back to the topic, is EK the "only other" non-indigenous participant on the trans-Tasman routes? Also, I thought that EK's trans-Tasman services were achieving disappointing loads? Any truth to this previously "discussed to death" statement?



Kafa, čaj, šraf?
User currently offlineNZ747 From New Zealand, joined Dec 2004, 967 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 7240 times:

Airlines that will not be using the A380 in AKL should not have to pay for facilities for other Airlines aircraft (EK,SQ, and maybe QF).

User currently offlineDoona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3771 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 7203 times:

What airlines are currently planning on using the A380 on it's AKL services? Surely there's not enough demand to warrant the super jumbo?

It brings to mind when SAS ordered a bunch of 747s in the early seventies, just because that was what everybody else did. Sure, the first few flights made economical sense, but in the end the 742s were sold, SAS having lost hundreds of thousands of dollars on the A/C...



Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
User currently offlineZeekiel From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 7191 times:

First post for me. Woohoo!!!

Anyway, I saw ONE News last night and heard the comment from Mr Norris. I think its just sour grapes really. Mr Norris does not know that if you travel on a Emirates 777-300 across the Tasman it is nowhere near even 80% full. Especially in the F and J cabins where I have travelled recently and have only found 2 in First and 7 in Business on the AKL-MEL-AKL sectors. Emirates uses these aircraft so they are not sitting around in Australia from morning to evening (which is when Emirates operate their MEL-BNE-SYD services outbound back to DXB). It is the cargo capacity which allows it to operate to Auckland and Christchurch but as far as economics go, I am not that well enlightened on if its a money making venture.

Air New Zealand operates a far superior schedule to Emirates that allows for business and leisure travellers alike. It operates smaller equipment for their better schedule (A320's albeit a few 744 services here and there for cargo) and is more suited for connections through to US services (now at least) and to the Pacific Islands (not Fiji) as well. Air New Zealand as far as I have flown trans tasman has had excellent loads with almost full J and Y classes.

Quoting JoKeR (reply 2):

Back to the topic, is EK the "only other" non-indigenous participant on the trans-Tasman routes?


Not exactly. Several non-indigenous airlines operate trans-tasman as per our open skies agreement. Some operate daily, some don't.

Thai
Lan Chile
Royal Brunei
Aerolineas Argentinas (I think)
Garuda Indonesia
Polynesian Airlines
Emirates

There may be more airlines or less so I'm not sure.

Cheers

zeekiel


User currently offlineNZ747 From New Zealand, joined Dec 2004, 967 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 7092 times:

Welcome to A.net Zeekiel. It's great to boost the small New Zealand community here.

Quoting Zeekiel (reply 5):
...and to the Pacific Islands (not Fiji) as well.


What do you mean 'not Fiji'? Passengers going from Australia to Fiji have a good connection time for most flights to Nadi. AirNZ has put smaller Aircraft on the AKL-NAN route and increased the number of daily/weekly flights. In addition to the new WLG-NAN service.

[Edited 2005-02-24 23:18:42]

User currently offlineZeekiel From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 7012 times:

Quoting NZ747 (reply 6):
What do you mean 'not Fiji'? Passengers going from Australia to Fiji have a good connection time for most flights to Nadi.


Sorry there mate. My mistake. I meant it in the sense that there are direct flights from MEL-SYD-BNE on FJ. But yes there are good connection times from Australia to Fiji via NZ.

Quoting NZ747 (reply 3):
Airlines that will not be using the A380 in AKL should not have to pay for facilities for other Airlines aircraft (EK,SQ, and maybe QF).


I do admit that the A380 will be a quandry for AKL as only three airlines will potentially operate the bulbous mass to begin with. Auckland does need to expand its terminal as the traffic just swamps the airport in summer. We may need to future proof our terminal by building gates for these as more airlines in the near future may choose to operate these aircraft.

It's very touchy issue and we may see quite a bit of friction on the matter.

Thanks

Zeekiel


User currently offlineRupesNZ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 6894 times:

I heard the CEO of AKL International comment on the business news at lunch time ( National Radio ) that costs relating to the A380 only counted towards 7% of their capital expansion project.

To suggest that the other airlines are subsidising those airlines that will land A380's into New Zealand is a bit much given this percentage.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12189 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 6798 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Also read in the paper, (only read one of the articles on the NZ thing in the Business section as me and my other work mates had to leave for WLG to process the passengers from Polynesian Airlines), that NZ are planning on building their own terminal that will house both domestic AND International flights, to make the NZ experience better for its passengers.

User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6729 times:

The presence of Emirates on the trans-Tasman route is one of the factors that would put a tie-up between Qantas and ANZ within the realm of possible someday. While I understand ANZ's gripe about having a 5th freedom competitor on a trunk route, their presence may end up helping them in the long run.

User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5016 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6650 times:

I listened to the audio link of Mr Norris's earnings report on ANZ's web site. At no time did he name any names when he was talking on the subject of dumping of seats on the trans Tasman market. So to say that he named EK is false. Please take care to state the facts not the conjecture of the Press.

User currently offlineAerohottie From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 802 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6584 times:

SunriseValley,

Ralph Norris did name Emirates on both the ONE news and TV3 news, not in the official media release of NZ's financial earnings. He also later stated the phrase "parasitic", when referring to Emirates. The media release on the NZ website is not the only source of information for this topic. I think you would be able to still view the video on either the TV ONE or TV3 websites.



What?
User currently offlineAerohottie From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 802 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6570 times:

Here is the link to some of the news coverage on TV ONE news.

http://tvnz.co.nz/view/news_business_story_skin/475838%3fformat=html

Couldnt find TV3, but you will be able to find articled at....

http://www.nzherald.co.nz
http://www.stuff.co.nz
http://www.nzoom.co.nz
http://www.xtra.co.nz

Enjoy



What?
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3095 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6536 times:

All I've got to say to Ralph and Air New Zealand is that the level of competition is going to stay as it is and if they dont like it that's just tough. Get used to it!!!

So what if Qantas New Zealand is losing money??? If it were losing bucket loads then QF would withdraw the services. However if they did ANZ would increase fares and the public would bo worse off. Again it's just tough!!!


User currently offlineRushed From Australia, joined May 2000, 248 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6508 times:

Im flying emirates to christchurch ex melb over easter and am looking forward to it. I think as far as the schedule goes it is better than qantas, air nz and virgin. I leave early in the morning on the way over and then arrive in the early evening on the return leg, allowing pretty much an extra 2 days holiday. Also at $220 pp + tax return its was a bargin airfare.. and i get to go on the A340-500 instead of a pissy little 737. Cant wait.. !


travel blogging enthusiast :)
User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5344 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6431 times:

Quoting Rushed (reply 15):
I think as far as the schedule goes it is better than qantas, air nz and virgin.


And you can't do that on NZ and QF? Oh yes you can, and most people prefer to have options, ie frequency.

I must admit though, where possible I would choose a widebody.


User currently offlineWassch71 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2005, 208 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6431 times:

Is there any significant traffic between Auckland and Dubai, or does Emirates exclusively rely on the trans-Tasman traffic for its operations to New Zealand?


MEA...Like No Other
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12189 posts, RR: 18
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6315 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Sydscott (reply 14):
However if they did ANZ would increase fares and the public would bo worse off.

What makes you think that Sydscott? Have you got any evidence it would happen? like you said in your post the level of competition is going to stay as it is

Quoting Rushed (reply 15):
and i get to go on the A340-500 instead of a pissy little 737.

QFs and DJs 737s?

Quoting SunriseValley (reply 11):
So to say that he named EK is false.

SunriseValley, how about you make sure what your saying is not false!


User currently offlineEDDM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6299 times:

Quoting NZ747 (reply 3):
Airlines that will not be using the A380 in AKL should not have to pay for facilities for other Airlines aircraft


Because they do not benefit from improved passenger and baggage handling?


User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5016 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5516 times:

777ER....

I retract.... thanks for the other links. I don't think it was smart of Mr Norris to name names. AirNZ could if they wished allocate limited seats on AKL-BNE/MEL 747 services to counter EK's pricing. I realise that they do not offer wide body service into CHC from Aus. But they could sweeten the pot by offering double FF points/dollars on sectors departing about the same time as EK. They have options available to them.


User currently offlineMEA From Australia, joined Jan 2001, 631 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5327 times:

I don't understand... why don't these airlines, NZ & QF stop complaining and start competing. Why not take the plunge and trial Australia/NZ to Europe flights via DXB and exploit what seems to be a growing market?

Codeshares with MEA, Royal Jordanian, Syrian, Egyptair, Iran Air, THY, etc should ensure a good passenger mix between Australia/NZ and the Middle East as well as those pax who wish to continue with either QF or NZ to Europe.

Additional revenue can be generated as both QF and NZ would be able to carry pax between DXB and Europe for those that have deplaned in DXB for other destinations.

Is there no market at all for this to happen or even be considered?


User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5016 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4962 times:

MEA....
I think the issue of "dumping" is confined to trans-Tasman O/D traffic not traffic that O/D's beyond Australia and New Zealand.
To take your argument a stage further, why not give EK some of its own medicine by dumping seats on the DXB to its major European destinations. It's only 2900 + nm from DXD to LHR.
QF and NZ should create an agreement similar to the BA/QF one to share revenue etc and go after EK jointly. QF would have to improve the consistency of it's cabin service. If I read the comments on the list correctly they need to offer an early retirement package to clean out the malcontents.
Alternatively set up a crew base in Dubai with Arabic cabin crews or include some at their London base.


User currently offlineAerohottie From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 802 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4036 times:

SunriseValley,

I agree. NZ could boost the widebody usage across the tasman, and then jointly attack EK with QF and possible even SQ at SIN, on the OZ/SIN and SIN/DXB routes, between NZ/QF/SQ they could each offer limited services between DXB and Europe. Give EK a taste of their own medicine, and spread the loisses between them.



What?
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12189 posts, RR: 18
Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4020 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting MEA (reply 21):
Why not take the plunge and trial Australia/NZ to Europe flights via DXB

What has be remembered is that slots at LHR are restricted. If either QF or NZ were to operate to LHR via DXB then most likly one of their other routes would have to be dropped.


25 Zeekiel : I think the question of whether Air New Zealand or Qantas flying the DXB-LHR sector is a difficult one. As far as dumping seats goes I'm not really su
26 RichardJF : A useful strategy for QF might be to run Australian Airlines to somewhere like Stansted and Manchester via India using 744's, that might effect EK a b
27 777ER : Will NEVER happen as long as SJ operate B733/A320
28 ZKSUJ : Weren't EK meant to start PER - AKL some time? I heard it a while ago. I presume if that happened, it would make it worse
29 NZ1 : It is happening soon, watch this space. Also there is to be a 2nd SYD-AKL flight soon. NZ1
30 777ER : Wow, an EK A343 to AKL
31 ZK-NBT : Oh so that is happening, and also PER hadn't heard about that for a little while.
32 ZKSUJ : Man, 5 times a day in AKL, thats quite a big presence
33 Cedarjet : Perth won't happen. They can squeeze in a flight from BNE/SYD/MEL to New Zealand and back within the existing schedule - the aircraft would otherwise
34 777ER : I do remember reading in Australian Aviation that EK had every intention of flying PER-AKL and were also considering AKL-LAX. EK were also planning o
35 Zkojh : i heard that EK were just going to be using 777's into akl, Nothing about perth tho, this market is getting so small!!
36 777boi : It will indeed be 777-300 for the second syd-akl EK service. But i would not be surprised if the 340-500 then goes SYD-CHC, just like the second MEL s
37 777ER : When EK decide to start PER-AKL then a B777 will operate the flight instead. Oh well no A343 pics then
38 RichardJF : 777ER-On one of the other posts some guy with a user name horus (Eygpt) said there was a rumour that EK were looking at WLG with a A332! this was a wh
39 777ER : Holy crap that would really make my day. Which airports in Aussie receive the A332?. An A332 can land at WLG fully laden as it happened last year
40 777ER : When I'm working at the airport on friday then I can try and find out about EK. If EK are going to fly to WLG then it would be best if EK depart aroun
41 NZ1 : The talk from certain managers at AKL airport, is that EK have purchased a 15 acre piece of land to build an A check and Line Maintenance facility in
42 777ER : Wow looks like EK are keen on making New Zealand a big hub for their operations
43 SunriseValley : [ In the same vein, where would AirNZ build their own terminal? West of the present International Terminal or East of the Maintenance facility? It wou
44 OzGlobal : He should know, his company took over and bled to death one the world's great airlines, Ansett.
45 SunriseValley : This is simply not correct. There was nothing to bleed; NewsCorp or whoever it was that owned the controlling block had already done that. Ansett was
46 OzGlobal : My point was that Ansett might have been saved by a more responsible (and cashed-up) buyer than the then AirNZ.
47 RichardJF : I think on balance if EK has a hub at AKL it is a advantage for NZ. More routes get developed to the Americas. AKL gets a greater share of Aust/NthAm
48 SunriseValley : I agree! SQ must have smiled when they reflect on what they avoided in not getting landed with Ansett. Of course they never got to the due diligence
49 NZ747 : I thought EK's plan from the start was so make AKL its second hub. For New Zealand pilots it is a great chance to make more money, and live in nz, tha
50 Aerokiwi : Ralph Norris ahd absolutely nothing to do with NZ during the Ansett saga. And NZ is a different beast than it was back then.
51 777ER : Fully agree. NZ have since done: added A320s to the fleet added domestic Express added Tasman Express added Pacific Express ordered B772ERs and B787s
52 ZK-NBT : The EK thing sounds interesting, though its not really a new piece of news to me, except the land. I am flying them for the first time in a couple of
53 NZ747 : They have been building something to the west of the International terminal for yeeeeaaars now. I always see the big yellow trucks there doing somethi
54 777ER : I mentioned this is a topic a few days ago
55 ZK-NBT : What for a terminal? Could of fooled me, there is a little land there but I doubt they could build anything there never mind a terminal. Way to close
56 777ER : I said it in reply 9 in this topic
57 ZK-NBT : Ok sorry missed that. Sounds good, wonder how many years away that will be.
58 NZ747 : Yeah I know, but beyond that and o the north a bit in the same area. They have been doing something there for over five years now. It doesn't take th
59 777ER : Fully agree. When I was at AKL last year, I was looking at the model and thinking "AKL want to look like this......keep dreaming"
60 Zkojh : i was wondering about thoses models, at akl, very good tho, word is i read that anz new domistic terminal will be built along with the new runway in 2
61 RichardJF : 777ER-you had mentioned a while ago that 2 new airlines were going to WLG this year I assume one was Air Pacific and another you didn't mention but di
62 AerorobNZ : They actually abandoned that original project as far as I have understood. That project is from pre-1990, pre A380 as well. The 3 gates by Gate 1 tha
63 777ER : I said in the topic that your talking about was that one was starting new flights to WLG (Air Pacific, using B737-700s) and another airline has got i
64 ZKSUJ : "They have been building something to the west of the International terminal for yeeeeaaars now. I always see the big yellow trucks there doing someth
65 777ER : Could say the same thing about WLG. WLG has built a huge shopping mall on airport land, biggest tenant is The Warehouse.
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