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Capt. Dale Robin Hirsch?  
User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Posted (9 years 10 months 1 day ago) and read 3662 times:

I know there was a post on this Capt. and the incident that occurred but was he disciplined by AA for his actions and arrest?



Also how big of a incident was this to AA and there relations at GRU?


http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/01/14/finger.gesture.reut/


Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 1 day ago) and read 3649 times:

I don't think AA did anything. They paid his fine, $12,775 US, and he was released and allowed to travel back to MIA pending the check clearing. AA brings revenue to Brasil with its flights to GIG and GRU, think they would be nicer to pilots coming in from their long trips.

Regards.


User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 1 day ago) and read 3644 times:

BTW: What kinda a/c was he piloting into GRU when this happened?


Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 23 hours ago) and read 3626 times:

AA has three daily flights from MIA-GRU:

AA # 929, 763
AA # 907, 763
AA # 995, 772


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12340 posts, RR: 18
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 23 hours ago) and read 3623 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting BoeingFever777 (reply 2):
What kinda a/c was he piloting into GRU when this happened?

Wasn't it an A300?


User currently offlineETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 23 hours ago) and read 3614 times:

Quoting Aa777jr (reply 1):
I don't think AA did anything. They paid his fine, $12,775 US, and he was released and allowed to travel back to MIA pending the check clearing. AA brings revenue to Brasil with its flights to GIG and GRU, think they would be nicer to pilots coming in from their long trips.


I am sure they would be nicer if these pilots (and there was another one too!) were not so full of themselves, giving the finger to law officials! I am so glad he got punished, as he deserved it. No matter how much revenue AA brings in to the country, Brasil showed that respect is the utmost requirement. Too bad they did not put him into detention for longer than he stayed: 6 months minimum would have been enough. Aa777jr, try giving the finger to a US customs official, and see what will happen.


User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 23 hours ago) and read 3605 times:

Quoting 777ER (reply 4):
Wasn't it an A300?



I don't think they fly the A300 into GRU from MIA: unless is was an a/c sub.



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7809 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 21 hours ago) and read 3549 times:

Serves him right.

Would he expect a Brazilian pilot to do this at JFK.


User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 15 hours ago) and read 3452 times:

It's been stated on this forum many times the only reason the Brazilian government went to the extremes it did to photograph all Americans, including the US flight crews, was because the US Government started photographing Brazilian nationals entering the US on vacation. The US did it for security reasons, Brasil did it for spite. So a tired pilot raised his middle finger higher than the others while he held he super duper high tech Brazilian immigration card. Nothing happened to the pilot, he simply wasn't able to leave Brasil until the AA payment cleared for his fine. I could make a case either way.

User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20822 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 15 hours ago) and read 3423 times:

Well, well, well. The face (and finger) of the Ugly American abroad captured in all his glory. When will we ever learn once we leave our shores we're guests in other countries, and the rules of hospitality go both ways. I'd bet this errant pilot wasn't as disrespectful upon re-entering the U.S.


International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8195 posts, RR: 54
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 14 hours ago) and read 3401 times:

"Try giving the finger to a US customs official, and see what will happen." We all know pretty much what would happen - you'd vanish for a very long time. On the other hand, I must disagree vehemently with AA777jr: "The US did it [fingerprinting] for security reasons, Brasil did it for spite." What a disgraceful and dishonest statement. Since when have Brazilian nationals posed any kind of security threat to the USA? I would say the US did it out of spite, Brazil reciprocated in it's own self-interest.


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineGnomon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 14 hours ago) and read 3383 times:

Cedarjet --

The U.S. government's policy of documenting Brazilian passengers in the United States was based on intelligence which seemed to indicate that al Qaeda terrorists would try to enter the United States through Brazil and a handful of other countries.

It's also well documented, in media reports, that the Brazilian policy was retaliatory for the inconvenience visited on its U.S.-bound citizens.

Whether or not you believe the United States government's stated reason is up to you.

If anything, Brazil is a valued trading partner with the United States. U.S. officials would not do anything "out of spite" to Brazilians entering this country, if for no other reason than to avoid jeopardizing the healthy economic interchange between the two countries. The United States articulated legitimate national security reasons for its policy; the Brazilian government, in return, articulated its irritation and disgust, validly or not. Those are the facts.

Edit: BTW, I agree with your comment about the consequences of disrespecting American immigration officials. Even as an American citizen, I've had my fair share of ridiculously unpleasant Customs and TSA experiences.

[Edited 2005-02-25 19:34:46]

User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8195 posts, RR: 54
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 14 hours ago) and read 3351 times:

Gnomon: "The U.S. government's policy of documenting Brazilian passengers in the United States was based on intelligence which seemed to indicate that al Qaeda terrorists would try to enter the United States through Brazil and a handful of other countries." I don't know, in a normal world, the amount of trade Brazil does with the US would insulate it from stupid policies like fingerprinting tourists, but with the Neocons in DC, we're all in Bizarro World. One unsubstantiated bit of "intelligence" (lies more like, if the case against Iraq is anything to go by) and the entire nation of Brazil are treated like criminals. "Whether or not you believe the United States government's stated reason is up to you." Indeed it is, and I don't believe them. After blaming Iraq for 9/11 when we all knew it was Saudi, and saying Iraq had WMD when we all knew it was a lie, I have no choice but to disbelieve everything the US gov't says and does. This may seem blindly "anti-American" (I'm not, I've spent enough time over there to even have a trace of an American accent), but it's simply a case of looking at past behaviour and making a rational judgement, which is: they're all bullshitters.


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineGnomon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 14 hours ago) and read 3324 times:

Cedarjet --

I'll agree with you on two points:

1.) The administration hasn't always acted rationally with respect to ensuring that security policy clicks with foreign trade (see the EU steel tariffs fiasco last year); and

2.) No terrorists, to anyone's knowledge, have ever entered the United States via Brazil. Maybe the U.S. policy stopped them; maybe there never was anyone to stop. I guess we'll never know.

That said, regardless of the unreasonableness of Brazil's policy, I do think the AA pilot acted equally boorishly, so I agree with you there, too. Just wanted to get the facts on the record.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

[Edited 2005-02-25 20:03:00]

User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 4 hours ago) and read 3216 times:

Look at what Immigration does in Brazil: they fingerprint, photograph, then do what with it? Zilch! Nada! Niente! Nothing! Pas! The officer likely presses the delete button after each US passport holder goes through the process. This is done with public money, in a country that cannot afford waste. Equipment & labor being consumed every day. Kids could be educated with this money!

Then Mr. Dale comes along and gives the whole system the finger. All power to him!



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User currently offlineFLY2LIM From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1188 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 4 hours ago) and read 3198 times:

Quoting Incitatus (reply 14):
Look at what Immigration does in Brazil: they fingerprint, photograph, then do what with it? Zilch! Nada! Niente! Nothing! Pas! The officer likely presses the delete button after each US passport holder goes through the process. This is done with public money, in a country that cannot afford waste. Equipment & labor being consumed every day. Kids could be educated with this money!


The United States is a sovereign nation and creates its own laws. Brazil is a sovereign nation and creates its own laws. That is the way life is, and no one can sit here and judge a nation.
Having said that, a foreigner comes into a country and gives a government official the internationally known symbol for "f**k you" (I don't like to curse but I'm making a point) and he becomes subject to the laws that govern said country. The captain took the stereotypical "arrogant American" attitude and it cost his employer quite a bit of money and bad publicity. He was lucky, perhaps, that Brazil wasn't more punitive. Does anyone remember the American/British minor who was caught spraying graffiti all over Singapore? He was caned five times in public. And then, there are the stories of the drug dealers who are caught in Muslim countries and have their limbs cut off, or are executed.
When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
FLY2LIM



Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 3 hours ago) and read 3162 times:

Going back to the incident. The Brazilian airport officials probably did something stupid to make the crew angry and less complient. I really don't think that the crew would want to argue with officials after a long flight as they would probably be in a hurry to get into the hotel.

User currently offlineETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 3 hours ago) and read 3145 times:

Quoting AirWillie6475 (reply 16):
Going back to the incident. The Brazilian airport officials probably did something stupid to make the crew angry and less complient. I really don't think that the crew would want to argue with officials after a long flight as they would probably be in a hurry to get into the hotel.


You have no idea how many times US airport officials do something stupid to make me and many other crew angry. Do I raise my middle finger? No! Respect, is what it's all about. And buddy Dale ain't got any. Stop coming up with excuses for him.


User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 3 hours ago) and read 3135 times:

I don't care about all the red tape and bs you ppl talk of........I wanted to know if AA disciplined this pilot that's all. J/C stay on topic.

From the posts I've read you ppl know nothing about the topic but want to only piss and moan about the reasoning for the U.S. government's policy of documenting Brazilian passengers and vs verse. If I want to know that I'll google the reasoning for that.

This is a AVIATION forum not a political one.  Angry  Angry

So no one knows for sure?



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4376 posts, RR: 28
Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 3 hours ago) and read 3126 times:

BoeingFever777:

Very well articulated. I was shocked at seeing such political comments on here given that I paid money to be part of an informative and factual aviation forum. Instead, I find myself reading through such boorish and childish political diatribe.

If I wanted to talk politics I could have just as easily joined a political forum and pointed out to everyone how the U.S. is at least attempting to clean up the global mess we live in currently and which was created originally by a number of European powers in the last two centuries, in particular France, Great Britain, Spain and let's not forget Germany.

Mmmm...interesting how those four also make up a socialist entity called Airbus.

"Can we we all get along?"



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineAirgeek12 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 10 months 3 hours ago) and read 3121 times:

So AA just paid his fine and let him resume his job? I know it is sort-of a misdemeanor, but still. And it gives American Airlines a bad image. If you ask me I think he got let off the hook a little to easy.

geek


User currently offlineLPLAspotter From Portugal, joined Jan 2005, 682 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3068 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (reply 9):
When will we ever learn once we leave our shores we're guests in other countries, and the rules of hospitality go both ways


I couldn't agree with you more! That type of attitude will surely allow you to make friends the world over.



Nuke the Gay Wales for Christ
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