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UPDATE: TSA Prohibits Matches/lighters  
User currently offlineQqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2275 posts, RR: 13
Posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2592 times:

The TSA was to take action several weeks ago on a mandate to add matches and lighters to its prohibited items list, but failed to take action. Effective February 28, 2005, matches and butane lighters will be prohibited, and strict enforcement will begin April 15, 2005. This will give the TSA time to inform the traveling public of the new regulation.


The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyibaby From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1017 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2579 times:

Since most people carry matches in their pant pockets anyway, I don't see how they will be adequately able to search for matches. I understand the thought on butane lighters, but really..matches? The sulfur is readily detecable when lit, and someone trying to light one kind of sticks out like a sore thumb.

User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8092 posts, RR: 54
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2571 times:

At the rate they're going, they'll ban another inflight danger soon: passengers.


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2561 times:

I said it before, I'm saying it again . . . and I'll keep on saying it . . .

It's stupid, stupid, stupid. Unenforceable. Waste of time.

Anyone thinks they're safer now than before, well, come on back down to earth and refill your prozac prescription . . .

The TSA is a waste of money . . . "Thousands Standing Around" is an understatement.


User currently offlineGo3Team From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3267 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2547 times:

Is that for only carry on, or both carry on and checked baggage?

I guess airports that now have smoking areas, can now eliminate them.



Yay Pudding!
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17439 posts, RR: 46
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2519 times:

"It's stupid, stupid, stupid. Unenforceable. Waste of time.
"

You think that matters to the mafia *ahem* I mean TSA? If anything that's more of a reason to extract money from passengers/airlines *ahem* I mean enforce safety.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineNLINK From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days ago) and read 2483 times:

The TSA didnt pass this, congress attached it to a bill, which requires TSA to enforce this new rule.

User currently offlinePilottj From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 279 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2398 times:

Looks like the Tobacco Lobby has too many lawsuits going on to keep Congress's pockets full anymore.


God was my copilot, but we crashed in the mountains and I had to eat him...
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2371 times:

Quoting Go3Team (reply 4):
I guess airports that now have smoking areas, can now eliminate them.



I hope they do, as I despise going anywhere near the ones @ ATL. I work on Concourse E and three of the shops I stock are right near the smoking lounges, and one of them is right next to the door for one of them, and it always reeks of cigarette smoke.

The City of Atlanta is in the process of looking at a citywide indoor public smoking ban with one loophole, the airport. Hopefully the statewide ban currently on the table in the State Legislature will kill the smoking lounges if the TSA doesn't do it first. Getting rid of the smoking lounges could actually mean extra money for the airport. Turn them into retail shop space and make some extra rent money. The sale of cigarettes isn't too big of a thing for the newsstands anyway, as many people balk at paying $7 a pack.


User currently offlineElwood64151 From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2477 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2356 times:

I have no problem with banning smoking in public buildings. However, if I'm a business owner and wish to allow people to smoke in my establishment, I should be able to make that decision for myself and my business. As a consumer, I should demand a separate (and I mean SEPARATE) area for non-smokers. Let's face it, the original regulations regarding smoking and non-smoking areas were basically ignored for as long as they've been around.



That said, someone who smokes or otherwise might need a lighter (some of us use them to deal with loose threads!) should not be forced to buy a new one every time they travel by air. And the potential danger from these instruments in not only limited but by all accounts infinitesimal.



At LC's Hamburgers in Kansas City, there is a sign that clearly states: "This Is A Smoking Establishment."

Do I like to smoke? No. An occasional cigar, maybe, but I'm the first one to say that regular smoking is one of the stupidest things you can do. Do I like to be around cigarette smoke? No. It disgusts me. Do I want to pay for people's cancer treatment when they turn 50, find out they have lung cancer and don't have health insurance? No. It's their own fault and they should have to deal with the consequences of their actions. What they spent on tobacco probably would have paid for their health problems, anyway.

But if they want to smoke, then let 'em friggin' smoke!



Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2288 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (reply 5):
You think that matters to the mafia *ahem* I mean TSA? If anything that's more of a reason to extract money from passengers/airlines *ahem* I mean enforce safety.


Hell no Mav . . .doesn't matter to them at all! You and I are probably in agreement as we see eye to eye about most things - it's bullshit, you know it, I know, and I'd bet good money that TSA knows it . . . they just don't care!

Quoting NLINK (reply 6):
The TSA didnt pass this, congress attached it to a bill, which requires TSA to enforce this new rule.


I wouldn't give a damn if Dubya himself authorized it - it's still stupid, unenforceable. Period.


User currently offlineNLINK From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2259 times:

It might not be 100% enforceable at the checkpoint but if you get caught doing it once you are inside the secure area expect a fine and it to be confisicated then.

User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2225 times:

Quoting NLINK (reply 11):
It might not be 100% enforceable at the checkpoint but if you get caught doing it once you are inside the secure area expect a fine and it to be confisicated then.


When I was a smoker I had lighters and matches everywhere . . . I had matches from places I didn't even know I'd visited . . . I suspect that unless one is traveling with NEW luggage, they'll find some eventually.

It's a stupid rule, passed with ignorance, that won't prevent a damn thing, and simple adds justification to the job of the TSA Nazis who aren't generally worth a shit. Period.


User currently offlineSeptember11 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3623 posts, RR: 21
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2207 times:

You see big change

Example:

American Airlines
Chicago O'Hare - Los Angeles

before (1980): "free" matches offered by airlines onboard
before (1975): smoking OK

after: (2005) smoking NO
after: (2005) TSA prohibits matches

What are the causes and effects of the change?



Airliners.net of the Future
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7562 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2185 times:

I am sure that I will be flamed, but here goes.

Did'nt you try prohition before, (with alchohol). I understand that it was not a total success.

As for matches and safety, I know that Richard Reid to set fire to his shoes, but I expect them to try something different next time.

The problem is that we can not afford to rely on them being morons, (If he had gone to the toilet and locked the door.....). Just as well he was a dope.


User currently offlinePOR2GAL From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 62 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2177 times:

So, I guess no more smoking in flightdecks?!?

 Wink/being sarcastic



Spotters, Inc.
User currently offlineLegendDC9 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2161 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (reply 12):
It's a stupid rule, passed with ignorance, that won't prevent a damn thing, and simple adds justification to the job of the TSA Nazis who aren't generally worth a shit. Period.


Why is there such a "jihad" on the TSA? They don't make up any rules, just enforce what they are told to by homeland security. I agree that the whole thing is a joke, but it's not any TSA employee's fault... they are only following orders (j/k)


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2141 times:

Quoting LegendDC9 (reply 16):
Why is there such a "jihad" on the TSA? They don't make up any rules, just enforce what they are told to by homeland security. I agree that the whole thing is a joke, but it's not any TSA employee's fault... they are only following orders (j/k)


Legend, you're half right. They made up MOST of the rules. And they do a half assed job of enforceing them. One hand of the TSA knows not what the other is doing . . . **

Hand wanding babies and little old ladies?

No profiling? I carry a badge for a living and get hit with Secondary Inspection all the time! Why, lots of my travel is last minute - sometimes I have to buy a ticket and go, so I get the infamous SSSSS on the Boarding Pass. It's bullshit!

**Example: Boarding HP flight to PHX in MRY two years ago (before I quit smoking). NO lighters allowed. They take my bic. Screw it, I'll get another. Oooops, HP flight cancelled. Move to UA, different gate. TSA gives us back our lighters.  Smile Get to UA, new TSA crew, ready to go, offer up my lighter since I've already been told it's a no-no. "Oh, those lighters are OK sir, you can keep it". WTF? One gate is less than a hundred feet from the other, and there are different rules?

Example again: As far as I know, this is the only country that makes you remove LapTops from your case. What the hell is that all about?

Example still: Take you Shoes Off - but you don't have to. If you don't I damn well guarantee, 100%, you're going through additional screening, I don't care if you wearing flip flops - you're going to additional screening. That's so the fat ass at the counter can check you off as an additional random screening.

It's all bullshit, you know it, I know it, anyone that has any common sense knows it.

Perhaps I'd feel different if the operators at TSA looked and acted like they had any fuckin' sense at all . . . . when I see a dozen or so fat ass losers standing around laughing and joking and talking, and there's a line of a hundred people and one blasted port to enter, that's just wrong. Have you talked to any TSA idiots? Overpaid, underworked, ignorant losers.

If my Department ran like the TSA the city council would have our ass on a platter Right Now . . . from the Chief to the lowest widget.


User currently offlinePDXFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 31 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2139 times:

Agreed. TSA did not make this rule, they simple are required to enforce it. I bet they find it equally humorous.

Never underestimate the power of the anti-smoking movement, especially when certain government groups feel they can extract large sums from the tobacco industry (and perhaps deservedly so).


User currently offline11Bravo From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1718 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2129 times:

ANCFlyer,

What do think is a better solution? I personally think that airport security is going to be a hassle no matter what, but it was my experience that the rent-a-cops we had before 9/11 were even more inane and incompetent.



WhaleJets Rule!
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7562 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2114 times:

If they are Overpaid and underworked you would think that they would get better candidates.

The problem is that nobody knows what they are looking for.

I remember many years ago management saying that in the event of a threat that we should check the immediate area and then evacuate.

Given that we were expected to check within 30 seconds and that management could not tell us what the threat would look like, the
entire idea became a farce.

You need quality staff and then allow them some initiative.


User currently offlineLegendDC9 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2106 times:

I know and live the frustrations as well, fortunately for me I guess, I never had anything happen that would make me feel as strongly about it...

Quoting ANCFlyer (reply 17):
No profiling? I carry a badge for a living and get hit with Secondary Inspection all the time!


Doesn't that prove that there is no profiling? Look at my flag, trust me, I know what airport profiling is. All your experience shows is that the system makes no sense.


Quoting ANCFlyer (reply 17):
Example still: Take you Shoes Off - but you don't have to. If you don't I damn well guarantee, 100%, you're going through additional screening, I don't care if you wearing flip flops - you're going to additional screening. That's so the fat ass at the counter can check you off as an additional random screening


This was true right after 9/11. since then, and I fly all the time as well, sometimes I take my shoes off, sometimes I don't, if I know they don't beep. I have yet to be pulled aside for not beeping in at least 2.5 years.

I am not looking for a silly argument here, TSA is what it is, a government entity with it's own bureaucracy and morons and unreasonable decisions. However, the folks that work for them, may do it for the wage or maybe because they actually like it. They draw heat because they are visible and disorganized, but look, people here post horror stories of airlines ruining their vacations, making stupid decisions and stomping on passenger dignity. With all that, I have never seen anyone use such strong language towards them, when they did more than take a lighter away or made them take their shoes off. Just something to think about.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2105 times:

Quoting 11Bravo (reply 19):
What do think is a better solution? I personally think that airport security is going to be a hassle no matter what, but it was my experience that the rent-a-cops we had before 9/11 were even more inane and incompetent


Consistent, common sense rules. Get the fat asses off their fat asses and working somewhere. I can assure you, at ANC, I can could 2 losers standing around or on break for every 1 I see at the checkpoint. Guaranteed.

Let me ask you there Grunt (11Bravo - it's a term of endearment from an old tanker):

How much sense does ex-raying someones sandals make to you?

How much sense does seizing a pair of knitting needles (which are legal now - I know) as opposed to the writing instrument in my briefcase?

How much sense does it make to SSSS everyone that bought a ticket yesterday? I mean, shit, going to Granny's funeral and you have to deal with the TSA horseshit because you bought the ticket yesterday?

Common Sense there Bravo . . . that's what I ask. And get the lard asses working instead of standing around. There were no fewer than thirty at C Checkpoint at ANC yesterday, and twelve of them were working . . . including the X-ray (3 people X 2 machines), the Secondary wanding (3 more), at the portals (2), and one widget counting and checking off a checklist. Explain to me what the other 18 were doing . . . . and make it good, because I watched for fifteen minutes while they laughed and joked and stood around . . . .

Like I said, if my department ran like the TSA the city would have our asses on a platter.

And I thought we wasted a lot of time and resources in the Army - boy, howdy, was I way, way wrong!


User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2102 times:

Well, I do, and don't agree with this... I don't agree, because as mentioned above, no one should be forced to buy a new lighter everytime they land at an airport. I do agree with this, because any terrorist can take toilet paper, and light the lavatory garbage cans on fire, and ATTEMPT to bring down the plane... But how will they be able to tell if I have a book of matches in my pocket... what if they are in my underwear, or what if I am hiding them on the bottom of my sock, and walking on them.. Sure, take your shoes off, but they never say take your socks off. So many loopholes to get through.

User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2089 times:

If they can ban smoking in pubs in Ireland and make it stick, believe me, the end is coming.

As far as allowing one's own business to allow smoking, the question is...does that mean that one's own businessn shouldn't have to support disabled access? Or equal opportunity?

That becomes a slippery slope, to which the world has alredy answered that they don't wish to go down.

Steve


25 Post contains links Navairjax : To clarify, the rule only applies to certain lighters on your person and prohibits them altogether in CHECKED baggage. http://www.tsa.gov/public/inter
26 11Bravo : A lot of what you're talking about here I would put under the category of professionalism, or more specifically a lack there of. I'm a federal employ
27 Mattbna : The rumor at BNA is that a bank of 12v automotive lighters will be installed in the walls of the smoking lounges in the terminal (which are all insid
28 FLAIRPORT : Pun intended? After reading the clarification on the TSA website as I prepare for my journey in 6 days to NYC...I have noticed that it is actually a
29 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Profiling is GOOD! Might not be politically correct, but it's okay in my book, and damned necessary. If Tommy Tentpeg looks like a fuckin' bad guy, h
30 Sprout5199 : " target=_blank>http://www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/e...9.xml Damn, and I was gonna set up a shop just outside the arrivals point and sell lighters. Da
31 UA772IAD : I agree that it's a little rediculous that congress spent time litigating this bill, but.... So what? Your not allowed to smoke on planes anyways, so
32 Malb777 : This may get me a few pissed of replies but here goes. What is wrong with the USA at the moment, do you honestly think that by baning lighters and mat
33 11Bravo : The TSA widgets use Federal Pay Band D which starts at $11.30/hour. I'll admit though, that is more than many of them deserve. Fish cop. LOL. That mu
34 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Yup, it is . . . We have a fish thing up here. Lots of them. Favorite Alaska Bumper Sticker: Homer Alaska, A Quaint Drinking Village with a Fishing P
35 Ckfred : Here are some of my pet peeves about TSA: 1. Don Carty, former CEO of AA, said some time ago that he would like to submit passenger information and ha
36 QQflyboy : The TSA was supposed to enact the ban on February 15, 2005, which was mandated by a bill passed in Congress. The whole reason the TSA did NOT act on t
37 F9Animal : First off I totally disagree with it. It is a right that is being taken away. For people that choose to smoke, it is harsh. This is not a smoker versu
38 ANCFlyer : Lighters are easy . . . but unless they hand search every single person, they're screwed . . . . I have this feeling this won't last. Ya know, I can'
39 NLINK : Yah, kindi reminds me of the local level cop that likes busty everyones nuts over speeding 5 miles an hour over the speed limit or the same cop that i
40 Airgeek12 : I agree with alot of the posts in here. I can see how they could easily detect butane lighters and whatnot as they're made of metal. But most matches
41 Airplanepeanut : OH MY GOD! The ones in the FL C part smell like crap. Uh i come off a nice flight to see my grandparents and smell something that makes me wanna vomi
42 Navairjax : Apparently according to most press releases today, is that matches are still allowed and all lighters are not. (Of course the f***ing TSA still hasn't
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