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Iberia Wants To Buy Mexicana.  
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 6233 times:

Airwise.com has reported that Spain's Iberia wants to buy Mexicana and its subsidiary Aerocaribe. Iberia is interested, but at the moment there are no talks taking place. (my opinion- biggest winners, Mexicana and Iberia, biggest loser, Aeromexico)

49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 6175 times:

Quoting Juventus (reply 0):
(my opinion- biggest winners, Mexicana and Iberia, biggest loser, Aeromexico)


Why do you think such thing?????  Confused
Please, give reasons!


User currently offlineRichard28 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 1605 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 6122 times:

Interesting from a BA perspective.

When Qantas issued more shares a year or so ago, BA did not want to exercise their option to buy, and subsequently had a smaller stake in the company, which they subsequently sold.

If IB wants to make a purchase, I can't help but wonder if BA will refuse to put up the cash, and follow that same Qantas pattern, with a smaller share holding, and subsequent sale.

BA's current objective is repaying debt rather than expansion - will be interesting to see what happens.


User currently offlineN405MX From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1378 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6040 times:

Actually if IB want´s to buy MX-QA, they´ll only be able to buy the 25% of both carriers, because that´s a lock that MEX goberment put to the sale of the airlines, that no foreign can own more than that.

Also, there are other names in this, like Azcárraga-Slim, that are the potential buyers of MX-QA

Let´s see.

Logan



Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7993 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6033 times:

If IB does get a 25% stake in MX that's actually a smart move given that MX is already flying a substantial fleet of Airbus planes, just like IB is now.

Maybe this might be the thing for MX to consider buying A330-200's for high-capacity/higher-frequency flights from MEX to LAX, IAH, MIA, and JFK?


User currently offlineAM773 From Mexico, joined Dec 2004, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5996 times:

Quoting Juventus (reply 0):
Spain's Iberia wants to buy Mexicana and its subsidiary Aerocaribe

Could IB afford buying and keeping the standards of an airline as MX?


Quoting Juventus (reply 0):
biggest winners, Mexicana and Iberia, biggest loser, Aeromexico

In what aspect(s)?


Quoting N405MX (reply 3):
Also, there are other names in this, like Azcárraga-Slim, that are the potential buyers of MX-QA

The Vázquez Raña group was interested in buying some important part of MX or AM. RF: This group owns the most important private hospital system in Mexico: The Grupo Ángeles, comprising hospitals of first level in Mexico, and the Camino Real Hotels.

Quoting RayChuang (reply 4):
Maybe this might be the thing for MX to consider buying A330-200's for high-capacity/higher-frequency flights from MEX to LAX, IAH, MIA, and JFK?

Flying the A330 to routes as MEX-LAX and MEX-ORD would be unprofitable. MX does not fly to IAH and their flights to JFK have low LF's, even with their 319's. MX is considering the A330/340 for flights to Asia.

Regards,

AM773


User currently offlineBullpitt From Spain, joined Mar 2004, 871 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5953 times:

IB has announced two more code share destinations with mexicana and an agreement regarding FF points. Looks like IB and MX are going to be more and more connected. Will MX become a OW partner?.


These are my principles but if you don't like them I have others
User currently offlineBartond From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 789 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5921 times:

This has been a big question of mine for a while now - what is Mexicana doing? I hear that they are coming to DFW (my hometown airport) but then they seem to delay it, now they are supposedly a target for an IB buyout (I didn't realize IB had that much money/profits to buy another airline). So what's goin on with MX? A good airline from what I hear, but what's their next step? Join an alliance like Star or Oneworld or just continue to codeshare and hang on?

User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5803 times:

Biggest winners Mexicana and Iberia, biggest loser Aeromexico, Why?
Mexicana has always done better than Aeromexico. They are more aggressive, and provide a better service. Now you add Iberia to the mix, this means more money and more ideas. Possibly widebody aircraft.
The US airlines continue to expand in Mexico, mounting the competition and increasing the pressure, specially AA and CO. Where does all this leave Aeromexico?


User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5772 times:

One more point to make.
Most people think that Aeromexico and Mexicana are each-other's biggest competition. I think AM and MX's biggest competition are American and Continental. IB/MX will give AA and CO more than they could handle. Like I said, we all have our own opinion.


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7561 posts, RR: 43
Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5670 times:

A thread opened about a day earlier already discusses this issue. You can see it at http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/1976352/


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineN405MX From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1378 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5579 times:

Quoting AM773 (reply 5):
The Vázquez Raña group was interested in buying some important part of MX or AM


There are rumors that Vázquez Raña is interested in AM, and Slim-Azcárraga with MX-QA, even so, Slim owns a important part of MX, also he have a lot of investments in MX (MX-Telcel/Sanborns/Telmex/etc).

About the fleet, the A330 will be used mainly to south america (EZE, and maybe other new destinations) and the A340 to Asia  Big thumbs up

JFK is getting very low loads, about 50-60 passengers, that´s why is operated in the A319, so it can make money, ORD could be on a bigger plane, for a higher load in peak season, but not ORD-MEX, could be ORD-BJX/MLM, those are really high loads  Wow!


Quoting AM773 (reply 5):
Could IB afford buying and keeping the standards of an airline as MX?


Could keep the standars, but not sure they can buy it, but they can get the 25% that the goverment permit to sale to foreings.

Logan



Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
User currently offlineAM001 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 221 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5525 times:
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Quoting N405MX (reply 11):
they can get the 25% that the goverment permit to sale to foreings.


Will a foreing investor accept this? I think maybe as a preparation for lobbiyng a legislation reform that could allow them to increase their shares... otherwise it would be giving money to be used and controled by other hands

Quoting N405MX (reply 11):
Could keep the standars


Yeah, but would they??? I think they'd like to introduce their own service standards... the thought of seeing MX's great service turning into a sort of Mexican IB (with all due respect) gives me the creeps!  Insane

How about the code-share with AM? Is it doomed to end as soon as each has new owners??? I think they should keep it, at least in some form...

Rgds...

AM001



"Je vole car cela libere mon esprit de la tyrannie des choses insignifiantes" - St. Exupery
User currently offlineSR117 From Mexico, joined Jun 2000, 793 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5483 times:

I highly doubt that the big loser would be AMX if IB decided to get it's stake in MX.

First, regarding the issue of whether AM or MX is more aggressive or better, well that's a -highly- subjective issue. But the cold hard truth is that both airlines are pretty much even.

So, we have 2 good airlines with potential going up for sale. If IB is looking into MX, I doubt that their main competitor on the latin american market, AF/KL would just sit back la dee da-ing while IB made more inroads into the market. They'd certainly want to even out the playing field and have their own partner in the battle.

Ricardo


User currently offlineAM773 From Mexico, joined Dec 2004, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5422 times:

Quoting Juventus (reply 8):
Mexicana has always done better than Aeromexico. They are more aggressive, and provide a better service.


Hmmmm, I don't think so Juventus, AM is the biggest airline in Mexico, while MX only has the most important international presence than any other mexican airline.
Considering that MX's service is exceptional, much superior to any northern or eastern airline, AM's service is muuuch better. They offer a business-first class product while MX offer only a business one. MX's A318/19/20's are newer than AM's MD82/83/87's, but the MD88's and 73G's are much better than any MX A320.
In plenty of domestic and some international routes, AM is much more agressive than MX. They offer flights to several destinies even from MX's second hub: GDL, while MX has a very small participation in MTY.


Quoting AM001 (reply 12):
the thought of seeing MX's great service turning into a sort of Mexican IB (with all due respect) gives me the creeps!


Yeah!!!, me too, MX is great because of their service and more personalized attention. I can't imagine a MEX-LAX flight without some chilaquiles and nice f/a's!!!

Regards,

AM773


User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5023 times:

Just a matter of opinion. I like Mexicana better than Aeromexico, and I think the Iberia purchase, if it takes place, would be a good thing for MX.

User currently offlineFLYFAR From Venezuela, joined Nov 2004, 2 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4686 times:

Ohhh no IB buying Mexicana.... remember VIASA and AEROLINEAS ARGENTINAS!!!!

User currently offlineViasaMSY From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 91 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4586 times:

FLYFAR
You got it right. IB took over Viasa and Aerolineas Argentinas. Viasa went bankrupt as Iberia took over its routes and downgraded its fleet even morethan it was. Aerolineas is still recovering. Mexicana would be the biggest loser on this deal....as you said it: Ohhh NO!!!!



Rebuild New Orleans!!!
User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4469 times:

>""Viasa went bankrupt as Iberia took over its routes and downgraded its fleet even morethan it was""<

That's statement is entirely false! Don't continue on that way because I wish keeping my calm.

The biggest loser MUST be that stupid, unreal (because it's false and unreal) and anti-Spain point of view. I know perfectly what the problem of SouthAmerica is, and why sometimes there's a stupid anti-Spain feeling. My country is NOT culprit of the South America's economy current condition. IF there's corruption on South America... it's a South American problem, and NOT a Spanish problem. Spain is a great country, and it is not a scapegoat.


User currently offlinePdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1110 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4472 times:

Quoting ViasaMSY (reply 17):
IB took over Viasa and Aerolineas Argentinas. Viasa went bankrupt as Iberia took over its routes and downgraded its fleet even morethan it was. Aerolineas is still recovering. Mexicana would be the biggest loser on this deal....as you said it: Ohhh NO!!!!


There's one very, very important caveat to your statement: IB acquired AR and VA in the 90's while it was a government-owned enterprise [remember INI?]. IB was in a DISASTROUS state back then and was completely clueless in managing both carriers.

IB has been entirely privatized since then and bears absolutely no resemblance to the cash-burning entity it was a decade ago. Even in the current dreadful commercial environment [fuel, LLC's, etc.], IB realizes substantial earnings and significant operational cash flows quarter after quarter, has managed to de-lever its balance sheet and holds over EUR 1.5 billion in cash.

IB's equity market capitalization is EUR 2,500 million, or USD 3,250 million, exceeding the COMBINED market capitalization of AA, DL and CO. Of course, analyzing the carriers' respective Firm Values [Equity market value + gross debt - cash = FV] would reveal their total enterprise size as well as AA/DL/CO's outrageous debt levels!

The true measure of IB's value-creation has been its stock performance, appreciating over 100% in the past two years in EUR and over 126% in USD terms. IB's management is first-rate and does not make strategic decisions without carefully considering all viable alternatives and expected investment returns.

While IB's experience with AR, VA [as well as UC] were indeed disastrous, these investment decisions were politically-influenced and not executed by the Company's current management team.


User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4443 times:

Quoting Pdpsol (reply 19):
IB was in a DISASTROUS state back then and was completely clueless in managing both carriers.


Not so disastrous, my dear friend Pdpsol. Sometimes things are not so simple like it seems. On the VA's case the Venezuelan Govt. was the main responsible (irresponsible on that case) for the Viasa failure.-
On the AR matter... is a very complex, but it's not true IB was "an evil spirit" like sometimes I read on Argentinian newspapers.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4421 times:

Quoting Anxebla (reply 1):
Please, give reasons!


Please don't use exclamation points. They really are not considered a good writing technique

Quoting RayChuang (reply 4):
Maybe this might be the thing for MX to consider buying A330-200's for high-capacity/higher-frequency flights from MEX to LAX, IAH, MIA, and JFK?



The A330 would be a horrible plane for those routes. They are way too heavy and there are plenty of other planes that are much better suited to the routes. A330s or A340s would be for long hauls, not trans-border routes.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2571 posts, RR: 31
Reply 22, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4361 times:

Hmm this brings back old memories to me... just hope MX stays as it is right now.

User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4364 times:

Quoting N1120A (reply 21):
Please don't use exclamation points. They really are not considered a good writing technique
 Laugh out loud Thanks for your advice, N1120A

Quoting N1120A (reply 21):
The A330 would be a horrible plane for those routes. They are way too heavy and there are plenty of other planes that are much better suited to the routes. A330s or A340s would be for long hauls, not trans-border routes.


**presents Most Idiotic Statement in Thread award to this post**  Laugh out loud(copyright, Concordeboy 2005)
What about the Japanese Domestic routes??? Remember the 747-D (domestic)


User currently offlinePdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1110 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4339 times:

Anxelba,

I agree with your comments regarding political involvement in the demise of VA and would add AR was owned directly by Spain via SEPLA following IB's restructuring and privatization in 2000, not IB. Nonetheless, while AR's collapse occured in the midst of Argentina's worst economic crisis in history, the seeds of its downfall were well in place before 2001.

On the other hand, it should be noted AR has performed admirably in the hands of Grupo Marsans, realizing a spectacular turnaround over past three years. And, as everyone knows, Marsans is indeed a Spanish concern; allaying any [completely unfounded] conspiracy fears certain fellow a.net members hold against Spain and Spanish investors.

Now, concerning the financial state of IB itself during the 90's, before its restructuring and privatization process was initiated in 1998, one could only describe the carrier's performance as, well, dreadful...

IB was not a viable commercial enterprise when it was government-owned in the 90's. The company did not generate consistent operational cash flows, was riddled inefficiencies, was governed by political criteria and relied on direct and indirect state handouts to survive.

As I stated in my earlier post, IB has performed EXCEEDINGLY well since 1998 generating consistent cash flows, earnings, expanding its strategic market position in the Europe-LatAm market, fighting off LCC's in its home market and creating a rock-solid balance sheet capable of absorbing sizable corporate acquisitions [such as MX] should the opportunity arise.


25 Post contains images Anxebla : Pdpsol ...congratulations! A real high-quality post Luis ...about Viasa subject, IB was not an offender, but it was your government. They refused to p
26 Airgeek12 : Key word here = wants.
27 Toxtethogrady : "This has been a big question of mine for a while now - what is Mexicana doing? I hear that they are coming to DFW (my hometown airport) but then they
28 Post contains images N405MX : That´s why MX is evaluating the possibility of change some of the older A320´s for some new ones (starting with the 12 leased by mexibus) , also, M
29 SFOMEX : The current law won't change, period. Under the current Congress composition, the chances of a legislation reform that would allow a bigger foreign p
30 Post contains images AM773 : Andres: We're not saying that Spain is not a great country... it is indeed a great and beautiful nation, of course, Mexico is much better in every as
31 Juventus : Guys, countries have nothing to do with this. Let's live politics out, and talk about what we know, AIRLINERS.
32 NAVEGA : Mexicana will be in DFW by July2005. They will also be in Milwaukee, Fresno and Bakersfield this year. If possible, aircraft in mind here, they will a
33 Orion737 : I hope IB dosent get hold of Mexicana for Mexicanas passengers sake! If they do expect MX passengers to the States to have to pay for a cuppa coffee o
34 EddieDude : Hi NAVEGA, wow those are really ambitious and aggressive expansion plans! DFW is of course an airport they need to serve. I think that flights to DFW
35 Ghost77 : AFAIK, DFW is a big priority for the airline (the only thing that is currently stopping all the plans are the lack of aircraft, specially the A318s wh
36 Post contains images Anxebla : Why not??? Don't mix service standards and a cuasi-total control of MX by IB Time after time, I'm saying AR subject is on the past. IB currently is v
37 Post contains images AM773 : I totally agree with you... I'm sure IB is very different from what it was when the AR's problem, i mean, remember AM with AeroPeru!!!, the thing her
38 Post contains images Anxebla : Are you totally sure about it??
39 Ghost77 : In terms of fleet IB has around 100 aircraft. MX has 70. How many pax were carried by IB in 2004? Ricardo APM
40 AM773 : Yes!!!, I'm sure about it... in any term, except maybe for destinations served, and intercontinental service, MX is just a bit smaller than IB. (And
41 Anxebla : Ricardo: revisa tus cifras. Just about the A320 fleet IB has more than 60 aircraft!
42 AM773 : And MX after the last 318's arrive a fleet around 50 or more with the 321's.
43 Ghost77 : True forgot the Mad Dog fleet! IB's fleet: 76 - A320 38 - MD80s 25 - A340 12 - B752 06 - B747 Total: 157. IB has 2000 pilots, MX/QA has 1000 pilots.
44 Anxebla : Iberia has, only with the A320 family, 76 aircraft. And more are arriving. Saying MX is a "bit" smaller than IB is not true, and a "bit" stupid.
45 Anxebla : IB= 26.692.000 PAX during 2004. I don't know about MX.
46 AM773 : Well well well, even if its not (and I'm pretty sure it is), MX is too much for IB, in terms of keeping the standards as I've posted above ten times.
47 Ghost77 : Thank you very much for the number! MX/QA carried only 9M during 04. But I must say that buying a company as the size of MX it would be very risky fo
48 Xkorpyoh : I agree that MX is an excellent airline, as much as AM is. I have not complaints with Iberia either, but i think the merge wouldn't be bad for the fly
49 N405MX : There was a rumor time ago about MX joining OneWorld, it makes sense, the codeshares with IB, AM, and some contacts with CX, but nothing yet (at least
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