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Planespotters "threaten" CIA Ops?  
User currently offlineMd80fanatic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2661 posts, RR: 9
Posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9077 times:

I came across this article, featured for the March 7 issue of Newsweek magazine........

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7037720/site/newsweek/

Any opinions on this?

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3958 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8992 times:

Crikey!

We're being spied on by the CIA and they don't take kindly to us posting pics of the aircraft they use on here!!  Big thumbs up

You watch, give it a while and then suddenly the FAA USCAR will disappear offline without any explanation.

Maybe we should watch what we say as tools like the FAA register are very handy.

So let's not mention the CIA's use of B737 BBJ N4476S (ex N313P) or GLF5 N44982 (ex N8068V/N379P)  Big thumbs up

Sorry, but they shouldn't be so paranoid about it all. If terrorists/people interested in such matters want to find out this kind of info they will do, without the help of amateur's/enthusiasts like ourselves so let's just all calm down eh  Insane

Cheers,

Rob K  Wink/being sarcastic


User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8945 times:

See this thread:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/1978314/


User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8929 times:

I guess taking pictures of American registered aircraft will soon be declared an act of aggression by the paranoids in D.C....  Wink/being sarcastic  Wink/being sarcastic  Wink/being sarcastic


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 29
Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8924 times:

Aviation obsessives with cameras and Internet connections

WTF?

So the CIA is angry they got exposed by a.netters and the like? That's too bad. At least they didn't recommend cracking down on spotters (as if that hasn't already happened). This is just a bunch of angry old men complaining that they can't secretly transport prisoners. They need to get over it.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 3008 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8680 times:

This is just a bunch of angry old men complaining that they can't secretly transport prisoners.

Not just secretly transport prisoners...they ship them overseas so they can be tortured without any due process whatsoever. In case you are unfamiliar with the issue of "extraordinary rendition," read more about it here: http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?050214fa_fact6 Even if you take the article with a grain of salt, as you should--it's a bit on the inflammatory side--it's still quite eye-opening.

I normally don't like to get political on this message board, and I hate terrorists as much as the next guy, but any truly patriotic American should be shocked and sickened by what our country is getting involved in here. Posting photos and other publicly available information on the movements of these aircraft has, albeit in a small way, helped shed light on unconstitutional acts being carried out by the U.S. government.

So I say, planespotters unite!  Smile

[Edited 2005-02-27 22:46:39]


Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20822 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8634 times:

Wasn't that one of the themes of the movie "Broken Arrow" -- that they couldn't hide the fact that the bomber had crashed because "old guys in lawn chairs" were tracking the movement of planes? I think the CIA and FBI have always been aware it's going on to some degree, but the relative ease in which others have been able to access this information has suddenly increased exponentially of late.

Our local news did a feature on the clandestine jets a few months ago, and one of them mentioned had a business address in what looked to be an abandoned house in North Portland, if memory serves.

I guess it gives new meaning to "you can run, but you can't hide" - eh, Washington?  Smile



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinePolAir From United States of America, joined May 2001, 893 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8613 times:

Yeah. I had a nice conversation with two gentleman from FBI few months ago. They wanted to know what a I was doing taking pictures of a/c landing at rwy 19R at KMCI last summer. Pleasant guys! Smile

User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8195 posts, RR: 54
Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8456 times:

The article says that data and photos on the Internet is not helpful "if your object is clandestinity." That was a quote from some idiot at the CIA. Clandestinity? Why can't they use a real word for the conditions they'd like for the transport of political prisoners for torture? Like "secrecy"?

If these guys can't even talk using real words, how will America so with their so-called war on so-called terror? Oh god.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineAfay1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1293 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8421 times:

If I am not mistaken, the former KGB had to change tail and mfg. numbers as western spotters had figured out real production numbers and could easily track movements. Heaven forbid.....

User currently offlineN754PR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8350 times:

What a load of crap !!, How about the USA just shuts down airports?

User currently offlineBoeing73G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8269 times:

No way. Actually, we're innocent. The CIA should realize that people do take pictures of planes as a hobby, but not as a plotting tool.

Doesn't the CIA also have other means of transportation to worry about?


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8160 times:

ROTFLMAO!!!

That's great guys keep up the good work.

Frankly I am becoming less convinced that helping the CIA is by definition helping the good of the nation.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8139 times:

I found that to be quite funny, actually its spotters like us who indirectly help by making sure we dont allow any unusual activities near airports....they should be THANKING US......those ingrates!!


"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineAndrej From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 1039 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 8033 times:

Hello,

this story makes me feel good. IT is funny, and sad that CIA is blaming us, spotters, for their inability to cover thier activities. I guess that we are just good!!

A.net just become a part of checks and balances of the US system! Good job Johan!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy (Kinda ironic! Non US based webpage, makes difference in US) LOL!

Cheers,
Andrej


User currently offlineCapri From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 455 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7627 times:

I blame hollywood for giving too much credit to CIA by glorifying them in movies meanwhile they are just bunch of Central Ignorance Agency

User currently offlineFlyibaby From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1017 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7482 times:

After reading all the Tom Clancy novels, maybe we should go to switzerland and take photos and post all the gulfstream business jets registered under phony corporations....

seriously though...anyone ever keep track of the 737s that are painted white with a red stripe that run about every hour between LAS and Area 51? I know they file some wierd plan and then fall off radar after they pass the mountains to the west of LAS.


User currently offlineNoelG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7372 times:

The company I used to work for maintained a fleet database. One of the places I had to contact was the "Airline" operating their all-white 757. The street address was on some highway in Texas, but looking at an aerial photo using Multimap it looked like some huge military compound.

Why don't they just register them using military registrations, then they wouldn't have to worry about publishing their information! Sure you'd be able to tell it's a military aircraft, but they wouldn't need to use all these phoney companies and get people talking about them!

Noel.


User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6960 times:

Is the CIA getting mad at us because they want to be the only one doing illegal activities?

User currently offlineFlyabunch From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 517 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6815 times:

All governments, not just the United States have a need to gather intelligence. Therefore, they all need intelligence agencies. Notice that I have used the word "intelligence" twice already.

The CIA just needs to show some "intelligence" and get a little more creative in their efforts. They need to turn what they see as a disadvantage (public availability of aircraft info) to their advantage. Or they need to change their methods. Like hiding in plain (plane) sight!

Mike


User currently offlineAccess-Air From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1940 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6704 times:

NASCARAirForce

If anyone is doing anything Illegal its not we plane spotters.. Like someone said earlier.. They should all be thankful that we are all there helping them do their jobs that they seem to bungle most of the time anyway.. Esp Airport security. Airport Security in the USA is absolutely the most unorganized sector of the transportation system. Every airport is different and not one has the same guidelines or standards. There are airports and some of great size that they don't give a flip about you taking pictures and then there are airports that would shoot you onsite first and then ask questions later. Sounds like rampant paranoia to me...Unfortunately, until our own Government stops drilling into our head and most of all we stop believing it, that we are sitting ducks waiting for terror to rain down from the skies we might as well be like Henny Penny in the old Nursery Rhyme...
The FAA should not shut down their database, its a public information and should be available to anyone who wants it. Should Should the CIA also make the NTSB also shut down their crash database too? How about all the other Government Databases? Maybe they should shut everything down!!! You never know what people are doing.....Gimme a Break....This Isn't even funny enuff to laugh about... Sad

Access-Air



Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
User currently offlineN751PR From Japan, joined May 2002, 1249 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6301 times:

Meh just what is needed, more weird looks from fellow Americans just because we continue on with our passion... Insane

As silly as it may sound, maybe its time we at least support the CIA with what we love in some way so maybe at least we'd be known for something else outside of being "aviation obsessives with cameras and Internet connections have become a threat to cover stories established by the CIA to mask its undercover operations and personnel overseas."



"Ladies and Gentlemen it's happy hour. You will get two approaches for the price of one."
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6260 times:

Quoting N751PR (reply 21):
As silly as it may sound, maybe its time we at least support the CIA


If the CIA is conducting these flights to transport suspects overseas beyond the reach of US courts, then surely it is the duty of every citizen to expose and resist this. The CIA like everyone else is subject to the law, and suspects apprehended by them must receive due process - if not, why fight so hard to protect "freedom" and "democracy" ? Why not just accept a fascist dictatorship in the name of "the war on tourism" (as GWB so eloquently puts it) ?


User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12281 posts, RR: 35
Reply 23, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6246 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

While we are on this topic, why is it ok to run the N-number on a plane, and find out who owns it and where they live, but you can't do the same on a car's license plate.


“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 3008 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5778 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (reply 22):
If the CIA is conducting these flights to transport suspects overseas beyond the reach of US courts, then surely it is the duty of every citizen to expose and resist this. The CIA like everyone else is subject to the law, and suspects apprehended by them must receive due process - if not, why fight so hard to protect "freedom" and "democracy" ?


Amen. My point exactly. Unfortunately, this is not the first time that the CIA has deemed itself above the law, nor do I expect it will be the last. If aviation enthusiasts can help put an end to this while also enjoying their hobby, so much the better!



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
25 Post contains images DeltaWings : "plane spotters"—hobbyists who photograph airplanes landing or departing local airports and post the pix on the Internet That's good. They have to e
26 CcrlR : They do, they get new aircraft and sell off the other ones that have been recognized. Airliner World magazine said something about that in their febr
27 Post contains images N751PR : Touché my fellow enthusiast.
28 Jalto27R : I watched a show on Area-51 before. Those 200's are used to transport the employees of Area 51 from LAS. They park at LAS, get on the plane, fly ther
29 LTBEWR : Sadly, I would suggest that one of the fears of 'spotters' near airports is that someone could be a terrorist whom is researching flight patterns for
30 Bennett123 : This reminds me of a story that I read in an aircraft magazine about 10 years ago. I do not remember which magazine, (it was published by Ian Allen).
31 Post contains images JGPH1A : Ooh - you're like James Bond ! (swoons)
32 AAFLT1871 : Well, that is their job. Do whatever it takes to complete the mission at hand. I can see their point in a sense being former military,(just a example
33 Bennett123 : Personally, if I was that terrorist leader I would keep in contact with my people. If you have not heard from me in last X days, then assume that I am
34 Voodoo : March 7 issue - Aviation obsessives with cameras and Internet connections In the print edition I have it says `Aviation nuts'. Would they call America
35 JMV : AAFLT1871, Sorry, the CIA is not above the law, nor is any agency of the United States. I for one do not want my government doing "whatever it takes"
36 Post contains links MD80fanatic : It looks as if the "problem" is spreading.... http://www.thisislondon.com/news/art...16949314?source=Evening%20Standard
37 Ckfred : Oh no. I took pictures of my toddler watching activities on the ramp at Concourse A at ATL recently. I guess I need to put the camera away and teach h
38 NASCARAirforce : Not trying to sound too political here, but I thought everyone knew about the US going internationally to interogate to other Mid Eastern Countries th
39 StealthZ : Only if you let it!!! 9/11 was a cowardly and horrible thing.. but destroying the USA nuh!! It is this paranoid attitude and abandonment of all the r
40 AirbusfanYYZ : LMAO! ridiculous... The U.S. democracy is looking more and more like a police state. Heading down the road towards Saudi Arabia or China where your de
41 L-188 : I think you might be overdramtizing it somewhat. But I do enjoy this story....keep up the good work!!!
42 Visityyj : "plane spotters"—hobbyists who photograph airplanes landing or departing local airports and post the pix on the Internet That's good. They have to e
43 N5176Y : I think you people missed the point. People taking pictures aren't the problem... its the online databases of pictures and registrations that are. Usu
44 LTBEWR : Don't forget that there were in the past plane spotters working for investors whom would record the movements of biz a/c by their registration number.
45 777ER : Just saw on the 6pm news several A.net photos of a CIA B73G and a Gulfstream jet. It was about the CIA operation of transporting people
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