RobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3942 posts, RR: 19 Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks ago) and read 8694 times:
We're being spied on by the CIA and they don't take kindly to us posting pics of the aircraft they use on here!!
You watch, give it a while and then suddenly the FAA USCAR will disappear offline without any explanation.
Maybe we should watch what we say as tools like the FAA register are very handy.
So let's not mention the CIA's use of B737 BBJ N4476S (ex N313P) or GLF5 N44982 (ex N8068V/N379P)
Sorry, but they shouldn't be so paranoid about it all. If terrorists/people interested in such matters want to find out this kind of info they will do, without the help of amateur's/enthusiasts like ourselves so let's just all calm down eh
Newark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 31 Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks ago) and read 8626 times:
Aviation obsessives with cameras and Internet connections
So the CIA is angry they got exposed by a.netters and the like? That's too bad. At least they didn't recommend cracking down on spotters (as if that hasn't already happened). This is just a bunch of angry old men complaining that they can't secretly transport prisoners. They need to get over it.
FoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2902 posts, RR: 5 Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8382 times:
This is just a bunch of angry old men complaining that they can't secretly transport prisoners.
Not just secretly transport prisoners...they ship them overseas so they can be tortured without any due process whatsoever. In case you are unfamiliar with the issue of "extraordinary rendition," read more about it here: http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?050214fa_fact6 Even if you take the article with a grain of salt, as you should--it's a bit on the inflammatory side--it's still quite eye-opening.
I normally don't like to get political on this message board, and I hate terrorists as much as the next guy, but any truly patriotic American should be shocked and sickened by what our country is getting involved in here. Posting photos and other publicly available information on the movements of these aircraft has, albeit in a small way, helped shed light on unconstitutional acts being carried out by the U.S. government.
AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 64 Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8336 times:
Wasn't that one of the themes of the movie "Broken Arrow" -- that they couldn't hide the fact that the bomber had crashed because "old guys in lawn chairs" were tracking the movement of planes? I think the CIA and FBI have always been aware it's going on to some degree, but the relative ease in which others have been able to access this information has suddenly increased exponentially of late.
Our local news did a feature on the clandestine jets a few months ago, and one of them mentioned had a business address in what looked to be an abandoned house in North Portland, if memory serves.
I guess it gives new meaning to "you can run, but you can't hide" - eh, Washington?
Cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7804 posts, RR: 54 Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8158 times:
The article says that data and photos on the Internet is not helpful "if your object is clandestinity." That was a quote from some idiot at the CIA. Clandestinity? Why can't they use a real word for the conditions they'd like for the transport of political prisoners for torture? Like "secrecy"?
If these guys can't even talk using real words, how will America so with their so-called war on so-called terror? Oh god.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
Flyibaby From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1016 posts, RR: 6 Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7184 times:
After reading all the Tom Clancy novels, maybe we should go to switzerland and take photos and post all the gulfstream business jets registered under phony corporations....
seriously though...anyone ever keep track of the 737s that are painted white with a red stripe that run about every hour between LAS and Area 51? I know they file some wierd plan and then fall off radar after they pass the mountains to the west of LAS.
NoelG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7074 times:
The company I used to work for maintained a fleet database. One of the places I had to contact was the "Airline" operating their all-white 757. The street address was on some highway in Texas, but looking at an aerial photo using Multimap it looked like some huge military compound.
Why don't they just register them using military registrations, then they wouldn't have to worry about publishing their information! Sure you'd be able to tell it's a military aircraft, but they wouldn't need to use all these phoney companies and get people talking about them!
Flyabunch From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 517 posts, RR: 4 Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6517 times:
All governments, not just the United States have a need to gather intelligence. Therefore, they all need intelligence agencies. Notice that I have used the word "intelligence" twice already.
The CIA just needs to show some "intelligence" and get a little more creative in their efforts. They need to turn what they see as a disadvantage (public availability of aircraft info) to their advantage. Or they need to change their methods. Like hiding in plain (plane) sight!
Access-Air From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1939 posts, RR: 14 Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6406 times:
If anyone is doing anything Illegal its not we plane spotters.. Like someone said earlier.. They should all be thankful that we are all there helping them do their jobs that they seem to bungle most of the time anyway.. Esp Airport security. Airport Security in the USA is absolutely the most unorganized sector of the transportation system. Every airport is different and not one has the same guidelines or standards. There are airports and some of great size that they don't give a flip about you taking pictures and then there are airports that would shoot you onsite first and then ask questions later. Sounds like rampant paranoia to me...Unfortunately, until our own Government stops drilling into our head and most of all we stop believing it, that we are sitting ducks waiting for terror to rain down from the skies we might as well be like Henny Penny in the old Nursery Rhyme...
The FAA should not shut down their database, its a public information and should be available to anyone who wants it. Should Should the CIA also make the NTSB also shut down their crash database too? How about all the other Government Databases? Maybe they should shut everything down!!! You never know what people are doing.....Gimme a Break....This Isn't even funny enuff to laugh about...
N751PR From United States of America, joined May 2002, 1247 posts, RR: 2 Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6003 times:
Meh just what is needed, more weird looks from fellow Americans just because we continue on with our passion...
As silly as it may sound, maybe its time we at least support the CIA with what we love in some way so maybe at least we'd be known for something else outside of being "aviation obsessives with cameras and Internet connections have become a threat to cover stories established by the CIA to mask its undercover operations and personnel overseas."
Ladies and Gentlemen it's happy hour.You will get two approaches for the price of one.
JGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5962 times:
Quoting N751PR (reply 21): As silly as it may sound, maybe its time we at least support the CIA
If the CIA is conducting these flights to transport suspects overseas beyond the reach of US courts, then surely it is the duty of every citizen to expose and resist this. The CIA like everyone else is subject to the law, and suspects apprehended by them must receive due process - if not, why fight so hard to protect "freedom" and "democracy" ? Why not just accept a fascist dictatorship in the name of "the war on tourism" (as GWB so eloquently puts it) ?
FoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2902 posts, RR: 5 Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5480 times:
Quoting JGPH1A (reply 22): If the CIA is conducting these flights to transport suspects overseas beyond the reach of US courts, then surely it is the duty of every citizen to expose and resist this. The CIA like everyone else is subject to the law, and suspects apprehended by them must receive due process - if not, why fight so hard to protect "freedom" and "democracy" ?
Amen. My point exactly. Unfortunately, this is not the first time that the CIA has deemed itself above the law, nor do I expect it will be the last. If aviation enthusiasts can help put an end to this while also enjoying their hobby, so much the better!
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
25 DeltaWings: "plane spotters"—hobbyists who photograph airplanes landing or departing local airports and post the pix on the Internet That's good. They have to e
26 CcrlR: They do, they get new aircraft and sell off the other ones that have been recognized. Airliner World magazine said something about that in their febr