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Globespan Long Haul, Bad For TS?  
User currently offlineBurberry753 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 204 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2374 times:

Hi, does anyone know when flyGlobespan are planning on operating their own planes on flights between the UK and Canada? (i think they are interested in 777's 'till the 787's are ready for lease) and when this happens how badly will Air Transat be effected?
thanks in advance!!!

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 60
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2341 times:

I haven't heard anything since it was mentioned here a few months back but am I the only one to think the 777 is quite a big aircraft (in terms of capacity) for a relatively new airline with no experience in the long-haul market to utilise, especially since they're planning on 'downgrading' (again in terms of capacity) when the 787s arrive. Surely the B767 would make greater sense offering a suitably sized aircraft, with reasonable lease costs and in relative abundance (compared to T7).

As for its effect on the likes of Air Transat or Zoom, I think they'll complement their services rather than compete simply because the UK-Canada market is expanding pretty fast so capacity increases in the future are bound to happen and why shouldn't a UK airline share a piece of the cake in a profitable market.

Horus

[Edited 2005-02-28 23:04:55]


EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlineJmc757 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2000, 1296 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2327 times:

If I remember correctly wasn't it Globepsan (the tour operator, parent of the airline) that bought Excalibur airways? Then rushed into starting the long-haul Orlando service and in a matter of months destroyed a great airline?

Hope they have learned from that debacle and get things right this time...


User currently offlineScottishLaddie From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2004, 2384 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2303 times:

What it would mean, is that Globespan would no longer sell seats on Air Transat flights and would instead sell them on their own Flyglobespan. This would probably mean that TS would either have to find another agent, or leave the Scottish market. I can't remember the CEOs exact reasoning for his want of B772s, but he seemed to think that it would offer better economics until the B787s appeared.

User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24811 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2272 times:

The 777s would be way too large for any UK-Canada market outside of GLA,MAN or LGW.
Would be better if they got 767s until the 787s arrived



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineScottishLaddie From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2004, 2384 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2252 times:

The B777s would be too big for any route but MCO from EDI and GLA where I reckon they could be filled. I can't see any other viable routes with B772 size aircraft, especially given that it would be almost entirely point to point traffic.

User currently offlineBurberry753 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2203 times:

I would have thought the 772's wouldnt be a problem for the Canadian routes as Air Transat regularly operate their A330's to the UK and seem to fill them!

User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24811 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2193 times:

I dont even think EDI-MCO would make full use of the 772, a 767 would be better for that route.
Burberry, the 777s can accomodate many more than an A330 can



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2161 times:

777s are a nice dream but can't see it happening somehow. If flights start expect to see a 767 or possibly an A330. CEO may talk of a 777 but the reality should be somewhat different if he listens to his planning and operations people.


Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineJmc757 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2000, 1296 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2126 times:

I would imagine that this would see the withdrawal of TS from a number of their routes. Like you say, Globespan would be selling their own seats. The situation can be compared to the American Trans Air Orlando routes. these were flown heavily by ATA from MAN and LGW for Travel City Direct. Then Travel City launched their "own" flights using European, then Air Atlanta 747s. No more ATA on UK-Orlando. Unfortunately thats the way the charter market works.

However, that said Globespan would still be selling seats from other airports (BHX, EXT etc...) so I would imagine TS would still operate these routes as Globespan probably wouldn't have the capacity to start with.


User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2088 times:

I guess one important question (which I don't know the answer to - hopefully somebody does) is whether the TS flights have mainly UK or Canadian passengers or whether it is a mixture of both. Should they have more Canadians then expect little change for TS. If the majority are UK then perhaps TS will look to shift their flights to other UK (or indeed other European airports as they have plenty of unused rights at the moment) if they feel the total market is limited with a new carriers entry on to these existing routes.

Interestingly, met with one of TS's directors at a conference at the tail end of last year and he was stressing in a presentation how his company was changing their operating culture and a key reason for their improved results was a desire to react quickly to market conditions, meaning chopping and changing desitnations where they see fit to aid profitability. something they didn't do in the past.



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineGLAGAZ From UK - Scotland, joined Feb 2004, 1982 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2034 times:

Whats wrong with using the 777? If Boeing makes GSM an offer too good to refuse before the 787 is ready then I'm sure they can afford to have some empty seats. Don't forget, if they fly to destinations such as South Africa then the cargo will also be a big money maker.

On another note, Pprune suggests GSM want to operate GLA-LGW and STN.



Neutrality means that u don't really care cos the struggle goes on even when ur not there, blind and unaware
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24811 posts, RR: 56
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2020 times:

A 777 flying nonstop from Scotland to South Africa would probably have to fly from PIK if it had any sort of decent load


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineGLAGAZ From UK - Scotland, joined Feb 2004, 1982 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2015 times:

By all accounts the EK 772 was full of pax and cargo when it flew GLA-DXB, thats 7.5 hours, how long does it take to fly GLA-JNB?


Neutrality means that u don't really care cos the struggle goes on even when ur not there, blind and unaware
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2017 times:

Quoting GLAGAZ (reply 11):
Whats wrong with using the 777? If Boeing makes GSM an offer too good to refuse before the 787 is ready then I'm sure they can afford to have some empty seats.


Absolutely, but unless they are ordering more than one or two, don't expect Boeing to give them away too cheaply to such a small airline as they are not having too much difficulty shifting them up to now. If they threatened to buy 15 A340s from Airbus that might help negotiations however  Wink/being sarcastic

Operating a 777 is not a cheap undertaking - one reason why almost all other charter airlines or pseudo-charter airlines operate them? (I don't include Lauda as they are in effect operating OS scheduled services to leisure destinations). Much as I love the 777 to fly on, an A330 would make much more economic sense to Canadian destinations

South Africa might be a far trickier issue than Canada - will have to go check the bilaterals but I think they're much more restricted than Canada. Do they already have the rights to fly there ?



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineScottishLaddie From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2004, 2384 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1978 times:

Quoting Cornish (reply 14):
Absolutely, but unless they are ordering more than one or two, don't expect Boeing to give them away too cheaply to such a small airline as they are not having too much difficulty shifting them up to now. If they threatened to buy 15 A340s from Airbus that might help negotiations however Wink/being sarcastic


I think it would come as part of the proposed B787 deal, the B777 would be owned outright by GSM, presumably with the hope of selling them for a good price when(if) the B787 appear.


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1975 times:

Quoting GLAGAZ (reply 13):
By all accounts the EK 772 was full of pax and cargo when it flew GLA-DXB, thats 7.5 hours, how long does it take to fly GLA-JNB?


Longer than that. LHR-JNB has a block time around 10hrs 50, so GLA-JNB would be around 11hrs 30.


User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24811 posts, RR: 56
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1965 times:

GLA-DXB is actually about 6.5 hrs in flight length is it not?


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 60
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1971 times:

Quoting Gkirk (reply 17):
GLA-DXB is actually about 6.5 hrs in flight length is it not?


EK's website shows EK025 (DXB-GLA) has a flying time of 8hrs 10mins and flight EK026 (GLA-DXB) takes 7hr 25mins.

Horus



EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
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