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New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!  
User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6046 times:

DFW International Terminal D is a two million-square foot terminal capable of handling 37,000 passengers daily or 12.8 million passengers annually. DFW is the world's third busiest, offering nearly 2,000 flights per day and serving 57 million passengers a year. DFW serves 136 domestic and 32 international destinations worldwide.

Any new European or Pacific routes for AA with their new terminal? What new carriers might be lured into DFW with this new monster terminal? What is the official date in 2005 for the opening of Terminal D?


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37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5175 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6008 times:

Right now there is not a 'Build it and they will come' environment in the aviation industry; don't expect to see a big influx of new carriers because of this new terminal. It will see alot of AA domestic ops during the day--DFW is no LAX--all of the Euro traffic leave about the same time.


Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6005 times:

Oh, I thought it was the new Southwest building....my mistake.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineAa61hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5993 times:

As said above, don't expect much for now just because its built. We shall wait and see if someone new comes.


Go big or go home
User currently offlineGalapagapop From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 910 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5955 times:

This terminal should greatly improve people's expeirences at DFW on AA. Most of DFW is okay but who can say no to a new terminal?

User currently offlineNoMoreRJs From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 469 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5947 times:

Build it at DFW and they will land it at IAH. The new terminal looks great, but it will be the home to many silver birds (all international flights plus AA service to LAX, LGA, and ORD). AA has effectively locked up DFW and the DFW Airport Board is there to protect them. CO is large at IAH, but not the size of AA at DFW. Also, WN keeps CO honest in Houston. The WA (supported by AA and the DFW Airport Board) protect AAs near monopoly at DFW. Unless it is a OneWorld Alliance member, expect few new airlines at DFW.

User currently offlineKanebear From United States of America, joined May 2002, 953 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5927 times:

Terminal D will be nice. The new peoplemover coming with it will be a godsend. The TrAAin will finally FINALLY die a long long overdue death.

User currently offlineGalapagapop From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 910 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5921 times:

Quoting Kanebear (reply 6):
The TrAAin will finally FINALLY die a long long overdue death.

Thank God!


User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5863 times:

Unless it is a OneWorld Alliance member, expect few new airlines at DFW.

Why else would they market the new terminal as "International" if the board at DFW is so biast in letting anyone other than One World fly. Bring NW 747 and UA 777 in there on international flights. Please advise.

Regards.


User currently offlineBH346 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3265 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5841 times:

I've been looking forward to seeing the new terminal. I also look forward to the new tram system since my experience on the trAAin involved the thing being stuck for 15 minutes...literally quicker to walk...


Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
User currently offline1MillionFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5836 times:

That Tran system was the bomb in 1976 when I was 8 years old. The last time I had to trasfer from AA to DL I wanted to cry. Down with the old tram!

User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5700 times:

Quoting Aa777jr (reply 8):
Bring NW 747 and UA 777 in there on international flights.


I'd love to see the day that NW and UA fly widebody international flights from DFW. Unfortunately, I won't be alive then.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineNWAFA From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1893 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5695 times:

All the new airports look the same.


THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2826 posts, RR: 42
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5685 times:

Quoting Aa777jr (reply 8):
Bring NW 747 and UA 777 in there on international flights


The idea that UA would fly internationals out of DFW (where it does not have a hub) despite the fact that even DEN (which is a huge hub for them) 500 miles to the north does not have any international traffic is absurd. It simply won't happen.

DFW is on the poor side of timing here. DL's pullout from DFW is going to severly limit what traffic DFW does see. At the same time AA's international is pretty centered on ORD. I doubt that would change any time soon.


User currently offlineN839MH From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 371 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5628 times:

Jeff Fagen and all of his cronies at the DFW airport are really sweating on this HUGE gamble of terminal D.

The cost of operating out of Terminal D is 300% higher than currently being charged in the likes of Terminal E. (international flights that is).

Right after 9/11, DFW should have put a hold on the construction of this project. One of the BIG reasons Delta de-hubbed DFW was because of the anticipated new cost of operating out of DFW, i.e, landing fees and such.

From what airport employees have been saying is the fact it's going to be very expensive to operate out of Terminal D. The airport is very desperate in landing a new airline or two to start International service with huge incentives.

If you build it, doesn't necessarily mean they will come!



Solodude!
User currently offlineSkedguy From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 135 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5605 times:
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Quoting N839MH (reply 14):
Right after 9/11, DFW should have put a hold on the construction of this project. One of the BIG reasons Delta de-hubbed DFW was because of the anticipated new cost of operating out of DFW, i.e, landing fees and such.

From what airport employees have been saying is the fact it's going to be very expensive to operate out of Terminal D. The airport is very desperate in landing a new airline or two to start International service with huge incentives.

If you build it, doesn't necessarily mean they will come!


Regardless of what happens to the Wright Amendment, I believe DFW will be fine in the long-term. In terms of population (not geographic size), the Metroplex is now the sixth largest in the nation behind New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Washington D.C., and San Francisco (by comparison, HOU ranks #11). Thus, a metro area that large will inherently continue to produce O&Ds, especially as average airfares drop.

Sure, DFW is going to face some short-term pain, and the higher costs of operating at the airport and competing with AA may initially deter some new entrants. Long term, however, I believe DFW will be a robust operation, and people will look back at this period in the same way that they did when BI went belly-up in the early-80s.

Just my two cents.


User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5175 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5587 times:

Right--in another 20 years. There just isn't enough international traffic generated at DFW to warrant this facility--especially in these tumultuous times. IAH is THE international airport of Texas, while DFW will remain bigger in terms of overall ops and domestic ops, IAH will dominate it for international service for some time to come.


Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6752 posts, RR: 32
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5549 times:

What still boggles my mind is how the DFW Airport Board spent twice as much as the Houston Airport System and Continental just did for an international terminal with only five more gates (28 at DFW Terminal D vs. 23 at IAH Terminal E; however the existing Terminal D provides an additional 14 international gates at IAH for a total of 37) and significantly less passenger screening capability (2,800 per hour at DFW and 4,500 per hour at IAH).

It is very telling that DFW charges the highest PFC allowed by law ($4.50) while IAH and HOU don't charge one at all.

A shiny new international terminal is not going to attract new airlines to DFW if the passenger demand is not there. Even considering the strain on Terminal D, IAH had nearly 6.4 million international passengers in 2004 compared to 5.1 million at DFW. And with AA dominating the airport, non-oneworld carriers will have little interest in serving DFW.

I agree that part of the reason for DL pulling out of DFW was the fact that the bill was about to come due for all the new improvements put in place for AA. The new train and new international terminal (price tag, just over $2 billion together) really only benefit AA since Delta's operations were all in a single terminal and SkyTeam partner AeroMexico was able to use the FIS in Terminal E. Even though the price of operating at Terminal D would be higher to help pay for that boondoggle, shortfalls in revenue at DFW would have to be made up by all airlines at the airport.

As long as the DFW Airport Board continues to be the AMR Corporation's b!+ch, DFW will see very limited competition.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5533 times:

Quoting AirFrnt (reply 13):
At the same time AA's international is pretty centered on ORD

...what gives you that idea?


User currently offlineNikonDFW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5464 times:

Quoting Drerx7 (reply 16):



DFW will pass IAH in Intl passengers in less then 4-5 years, maybe sooner. Some of it will be from AA and some from Intl carriers. Between AA,AE and AA's codeshare partner MX, DFW will see a major increase in just Mexico traffic alone, and this isn't counting Sun Country and all the other charters flying to mexico.

AA is in a better position to add Intl flights out of DFW then CO is to adding them at IAH. CO doesn't have enough planes to do any real expanding, as most widebodies and 757s seem to be adding new routes out of EWR.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5454 times:

Quoting NikonDFW (reply 19):
DFW will pass IAH in Intl passengers in less then 4-5 years, maybe sooner.

Nearly every industry trend is predicting the exact opposite... unless you seem to know something they do not.


User currently offlineSkedguy From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 135 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5447 times:
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Quoting ScottB (reply 17):
A shiny new international terminal is not going to attract new airlines to DFW if the passenger demand is not there. Even considering the strain on Terminal D, IAH had nearly 6.4 million international passengers in 2004 compared to 5.1 million at DFW. And with AA dominating the airport, non-oneworld carriers will have little interest in serving DFW.


Quoting NikonDFW (reply 19):
DFW will pass IAH in Intl passengers in less then 4-5 years, maybe sooner. Some of it will be from AA and some from Intl carriers. Between AA,AE and AA's codeshare partner MX, DFW will see a major increase in just Mexico traffic alone, and this isn't counting Sun Country and all the other charters flying to mexico


ScottB, I tend to agree with NikonDFW. According to the latest numbers from the DOT, IAH and DFW were nearly EQUAL in terms of their O&D passengers. During the past year, IAH generated 1,869,227 O&Ds versus DFW, which generated 1,828,636. In my book, that's pretty close. I think the numbers you quoted included local and through/connect passengers.

If you want new, international flag carriers, it's the local O&Ds that count -- not the flow/connect as much. Having said that, IAH definitely carries a certain cache because of the international consulates located there, and in that sense it benefits by having more flag carriers. However, in my book (and in most airlines'), it's the number of passengers that count -- not the number of airlines -- that makes an airport viable.

Bottom line, I'll be darn surprised if DFW doesn't eclipse IAH in the coming years.


User currently offline102IAHexpress From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5436 times:

Quoting NikonDFW (reply 19):
DFW will pass IAH in Intl passengers in less then 4-5 years, maybe sooner.


Uhm...Not going to happen.

According to this article in the Star Telegram (free registration)
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/loca...tates/texas/northeast/10773218.htm

DFW is facing the toughest times in its 30-year history. Of particular interest is a quote from AMR’s CFO James Beer who listed DFW Terminal D among "drivers of costs going in the wrong direction."

DFW is home to the world’s largest airline, but unfortunately for DFW AA international opps are focused on ORD and MIA.

DFW also has to contend with IAH which continues to dominate Texas’ international traffic. IMO I see DFW loosing some foreign metal before they gain some. KE would better be served in IAH as opposed to DFW which has a limited Sky Team presence.

102IAHexpress


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4553 posts, RR: 18
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5421 times:

Will this new terminal handle passenger flow differently from the others or will it be the same mess? I was in terminal C recently and it wasn't a pleasant experience. Makes it hard to find people when DFW is your destination. I think that terminal had something like 4 or more different exits. There was no real central meeting place. I think that was the first airport I've ever been to where there wasn't a defined place where you could tell someone in advance to meet you.


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5175 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5412 times:

DFW won't be surpassing IAH at any point in the near future. Statistics just don't back it up. If DFW is lucky they will keep Korean in the long term and not lose them to IAH and the Skyteam connections to be had at IAH.


Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
25 N276AASTT : The truth of the matter is that there have been several airlines who saw potential in DFW and decided to start service there. JAL, Air France, and Air
26 NikonDFW : KE's DFW flights are full of O&D traffic as there's a large Korean population in the DFW metroplex, besides AA fed more passengers to KE then DL did.
27 ScottB : This is extremely unlikely. IAH would have to show no growth while DFW would have to continue growing at its current pace to simply catch up with IAH
28 QantasHeavy : Just for the record... NMW did fly 742s (DFW-SFO-NRT) to DFW in the 80s and UA did fly 762s (DFW-DEN-ANC) then too. I think DFW's future growth will b
29 Post contains links Thomasphoto60 : I love these IAH vs DFW exchanges. BTW, Sked guy where do you get you info? How did DFW jump up so fast? [quote=Skedguy,reply=15]In terms of populatio
30 Aa777jr : Yes, the cost of operating out of the new D international terminal will be higher, AA will operate more flights to help offset the higher costs. New i
31 Post contains links and images BoeingFever777 : Typical A.net political redtape! All the posts and not one answered his main question the opening date. What is the official date in 2005 for the open
32 N839MH : July 9th, 10th or the 11th as of yesterday from the Airport employees. The skytrain will officially open on March 17th, granted no more mechanical pro
33 AirStatDFW : Skylink is to open in the middle of april with the upgrades to be complete in the next couple of weeks. The Term is still sometime in the middle of Ju
34 Post contains images Drerx7 : Just for those that did not look at Thomas' link--the Metroplex is 9th and Houston is 10th.
35 Texdravid : Yes, these DFW threads are funny because on the one hand you have DFW loyalists commenting on how DFW is going to get all these new international carr
36 Skedguy : Yeah, the numbers from ThomasPhoto60 are based on the 2000 US Census. In the past year, however, the definitions of Metro areas have again been redef
37 Thomasphoto60 : Skedguy, No disrespect intended but I find it difficult to believe that in 4-5 short years that the DFW Metroplex has exploded in population to the po
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