Mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 27332 posts, RR: 81
Reply 1, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5856 times:
Why is it a tragedy?
Everything has a natural course. Is it "a tragedy" that piston engine aircraft aren't made anymore, or that the Princess flying boat never entered commercial service, or that the Concorde is in museums?
The 747 has a long and proud history. That is the celebration.
United Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9468 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5576 times:
If Boeing builds the B 747 Advanced and make it very advanced, I am sure the B 747 will live on for a long time to come......
The oldest B 747-400 is around 16 years old. Most airlines are happy with their B 747-400 fleet and they do not need anymore. Should they need major replacement they might place large orders for the B 747 Advanced.
Duke From Canada, joined Sep 1999, 1186 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5297 times:
Quoting BoeingBus (reply 0): Things are looking rather dim for the 747. Unless Boeing announces new orders to keep the line going... the 747 is going away like the 757... a tragedy...
That's what you call a tragedy? Looooolllll! Wooo hoooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hahaahaaaahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ROTFL!!!!!!!!!!! I'd take a tragedy like that any day!
Dude, seriously, a tragedy is a 747 fatally crashing. Not it no longer being produced. Yes, this is the natural course. The 747 has been produced for a very long time and has seen a lot of service. How is the line ending tragic? The Chevy El Camino was one cool car, but they no longer make it. Neither do they make the historic Model T ford. Is that a tragedy?
I don't mean to make fun, I just think this use of the word tragedy is funny. A tragedy is a real serious thing, not a word to be used lightly, and at the same time, a model getting too old for production is, as already stated, quite natural and expected.
LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13765 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5173 times:
For the last couple of years, almost if not all of Boeing's production of 747's have been for non-USA airlines, and mostly for Asian airlines (China and JAL), and about 50-50 Freighters and Pax versions. There are plenty of used 747's gathering dust in the desert, so if some needs one, they can buy a used one for the fraction of the price of a new a/c. When I took the tour at the Boeing 747 line/assembly plant in Everett, they were only deliveing about 3 a month. The 777 is delivering at a faster rate and in many cases had really replaced the 747 for pax use. Unless there is a large number of orders from those whom need to replace 747's, can afford to buy/lease them, are suitable for their needs, and don't choose Airbus 340 or 380 series a/c's then perhaps the 747 will go the way of the 757 has already done, and the 767 will in a couple of years. Also, Boeing will have to consider the 747 Advanced, but if the order book doesn't look good, then they will not have the number of orders to cover their development costs.
One order of only a handful remaining is huge deal as it means one less month of production line being open...
and to the rest...
I honeslty don't care what many of you may think of whether I used the right word in explaining the probable loss of the 747 for Boeing and its workers. But for me, it will be a very sad day when the queen of the skies is not longer made. So yes I am concerned.
Be sure that if Boeing doesn't get enough commitments for the 747Adv before mid year, this line will close down...
I love the 747 and if it ever goes away... well too me it's tragic to a legacy that defined long distance / high capacity aviation. Yes, nothing lasts forever... but she will always be the best that was ever prduced by Boeing.
HEGAN From Spain, joined Feb 2005, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5061 times:
The things don't look dim because of the cancellation but for the fact that since the comercialization of the A380 begun (December 2000) Boeing only has sell 53 747. Only 20 of them are for pax; the last order was received in December 2002 and since then every B747 sold are freighters.
The A380 has obtained 139 orders (2.5 more orders) and 110 of them for pax
HEGAN: Euskadiko Aeronautikako eta Espazioko Clusterra
Col From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2239 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3872 times:
The topic is on the 747, not 787. Also officially the 787 has something like 64 orders according to Boeing. The 380 has 139, but unofficially 154. What HEGAN is trying to point out is that the large capacity passenger orders have gone to the 380 since it was first offered. The 747 is only selling as a FR, this is nothing to do with what European members say on this website, but based on facts from Boeing, Airbus and the airlines.
Thrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2691 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3365 times:
It's obvious that the 744s are not going to sell anymore because of the A380s...but to say the 747 production line will be shut down...that is way too early...the 747 Advanced could still peak the interest of Asian carriers, and possibly Qantas....in other words, it ain't over until it's over. And one order cancelled? HOW FRIGHTENING, I guess this means the 747 is doomed BA, JAL, and ANA have all expressed great interest in the 747 Advanced...personally I think the 747 Advanced could work very much to Boeing's advantage.....it is not guaranteed the A380 will be full on all of its flights....we also need a more flexible jumbo in the market, and the 747 Advanced could provide that solution. Not to mention, should the A380 prove to be unable to generate full payload on the routes it is flying, the tables could be turned on Airbus because many airlines will come running back to Boeing for a solution. When the A380 enters service, we should see whose theory proves to be correct, Airbus saying the market demands much bigger jets, or Boeing saying smaller aircraft are better solutions.
Ken777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 9064 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2994 times:
I don't believe that the 747 is dead. It fills an important size segment that neither the 777 or 380 can fill and has a strong history with a lot of airlines.
The introduction of the 380 did slow down 747 sales. In reality, most airlines had sufficient 747s at the time and were able to focus on other size planes, including the 380. The first flight of the 380 doesn't mean that the 747 will go away either. It is going to take years for sufficient 380s to be delivered in a quantity that gives it a lead position - assuming that the 380 exceeds the expectations of the airlines. I'm counting on a year or two for Airbus to iron out the initial kinks in the plane before the airlines are satisfied. "Exceeding expectations" is the task that Airbus faces for the 380 to be a long term success.
As for the 747 ADV, there is no doubt in my mind that Boeing will go with it in the near future. They own that market, just as Airbus owns the 380 market.
Trex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 5428 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2422 times:
I doubt its CI, the 4 GE powered 744s they ordered 2 years ago were to specifically replace their 4 oldest 744s which they leased from the Taiwan government till recently when they had to purchase them. These older planes had a different cabin configuration than the ones they took delivery of in the late 90s.
May be MH who had some outstanding passenger orders which weren't due for delivery for another few years, also I think JL had a few passenger orders outstanding from years ago too.
OzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2830 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2398 times:
Quoting Thrust (reply 15): When the A380 enters service, we should see whose theory proves to be correct, Airbus saying the market demands much bigger jets, or Boeing saying smaller aircraft are better solutions.
I thought we had all moved on from this sort of jingoistic false dicotomy. The 787 will sell in much larger numbers than the A380 due to its market sector and the A380 will sell in good numbers to those airlines who have such operational needs, as is already happening. If people don't need to fill an A380, they don't necessarily need to limit themselves to Boeing: if you hadn't noticed, both suppliers cover the full gammit of aircraft sizes.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
BA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11161 posts, RR: 57
Reply 21, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2364 times:
A 747 order being canceled is not something I would start worrying and panicking about.
While I think we all agree that the 747's once glorious days of many orders are gone, I still think there is a market for the aircraft for a number of years to come, particularly existing operators, especially the freighter version.
I think the 747 will continue to be in production for at least another 5 years. If the B747 Advanced is developed, then much further than that.
I really do hope the B747 Advanced is developed. It would add many years to the 747 program.
I could see Qantas, ANA, and JAL as potential customers.
Quoting Phxinterrupted (reply 13): I hope you're not suggesting the A380's orders are impressive. The B787 already has 193 orders and commitments in less than a third of the time.
Last time I checked, the B787 is not a 550-seat double decker like the A380 is.
You're trying to compare apples with oranges.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran