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Philippine Airlines Eyes Purchase Of A380  
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 14071 times:

I'm surprised this hasn't been linked here already, anway here is the article:

"MANILA, March 4 Asia Pulse - Flag carrier Philippine Airlines (PAL) plans to buy the Airbus all new double-decker A380.

We are studying plans to get the A380 in the future, PAL president Jaime Bautista said. ADVERTISEMENT



Bautista said the acquisition of the A380 would enable PAL to be competitive with other airlines, especially when it resumes flights to Europe.

But we are still on the planning stage and we still must renegotiate with Europe, said Bautista.

I believe that this is the time for PAL to resume flights to Europe, where an estimated 150,000 Filipinos are working, he added.

Mounting flights to these European countries will not be possible unless the Philippines air panel forges an air services agreement (ASA) with the individual country or with the 15-member European Union."


http://au.news.yahoo.com/050304/3/tcjc.html


"Up the Irons!"
29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12102 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 13976 times:
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Yikes, Philippine are interested in the A380, would expect there would be enough demand to require A380s in the fleet, finance might be the stopper thou

User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25137 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 13968 times:

PAL has had discussions on and off to acquire a pair of A380s for its US services.

While traffic wise it could indeed make use of the large aircraft, the carriers financial state, along with need to provide support for such a small fleet have been issues that need to be cleared up prior to any order being placed.

On a side not PAL is also reviewing options to expand its narrowbody fleet. It curently operates a mix of B737s and A320s.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12102 posts, RR: 18
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 13756 times:
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Quoting Laxintl (reply 2):
On a side not PAL is also reviewing options to expand its narrowbody fleet. It curently operates a mix of B737s and A320s.

It would be expected airbus to win, if PAL decide to considering the 18 Airbus aircraft they already operate


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4772 posts, RR: 43
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 13660 times:

PAL would find it extremely hard to fill up an A 380 on any of their long haul routes year round. This A 380 is turning out to be like the B 747-100 was in 1970-71...a major status symbol for airlines to have if they want to woo passengers on their aircraft and buy their tkts and not the competitors.

PAL doesnt need the A 380 for any of its route...plain and simple!!!


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17026 posts, RR: 67
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 13636 times:

PAL would find it extremely hard to fill up an A 380 on any of their long haul routes year round. This A 380 is turning out to be like the B 747-100 was in 1970-71...a major status symbol for airlines to have if they want to woo passengers on their aircraft and buy their tkts and not the competitors.

PAL doesnt need the A 380 for any of its route...plain and simple!!!


The 741 was less than a complete success for the airlines, but that was on the US market. Euro and Asian carriers have used the 747 since the 70s to good effect. PAL already uses the 744. The 380 is not such an enormous step.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13078 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 13626 times:

Could the A380 be configured to be a mixed pax/freighter? Perhaps a situation where part of a deck could be used at times as a freigher and at peak seasons, as a pax area? For airlines like Philippine, that could be an option.

User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2238 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 13621 times:

PAL would find it extremely hard to fill up an A 380 on any of their long haul routes year round.

Not if they return to the Gulf (ie. DXB, KWI etc.)



Kafa, čaj, šraf?
User currently offlineNceBoy From France, joined Sep 2004, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 13188 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (reply 0):
Mounting flights to these European countries will not be possible unless the Philippines air panel forges an air services agreement (ASA) with the individual country or with the 15-member European Union."


Just a little precision, there is no more 15-member European Union.

Good news for the A380 if this happen, but is it not a lot of capacity for resuming service ?



coz I'm leaving on a jetplane !
User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2238 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 13133 times:

Good news for the A380 if this happen, but is it not a lot of capacity for resuming service ?

Valid observation, and if you were Emirates, the answer would probably be NO!  cloudnine 

What may probably happen, if they do acquire the A380 is that services would be resumed using A340's or B744's and then later bumped up to A380's on ie. Gulf services, while the A380 may be deployed on existing busy routes. Just my six-pence...



Kafa, čaj, šraf?
User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 13103 times:

Quoting Behramjee (reply 4):
PAL doesnt need the A 380 for any of its route...plain and simple!!!


Their president seems to think different and he must definitely know better whether they need it or not...  eyebrow 


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25137 posts, RR: 46
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 12993 times:

Quoting Behramjee (reply 4):
PAL doesnt need the A 380 for any of its route...plain and simple!!!


Are you aware of the high traffic between the Philippines and the US?

PAL operates double daily flights on certain days to both Los Angeles and San Francisco. While indeed the market is mostly lower yield VFR traffic, the Filipino population in California is only second to the Mexican population in size, with nearly 700,000 residents.

PAL has been looking for ways to expand its US services now for several years, however has had a lack of capacity. It has been only able to launch Vancouver and Las Vegas services by reducing frequencies to its California destinations. An A380 order would allow the aircraft to serve California, while freeing other aircraft for launching of US East Coast or European destinations.


Quoting 777ER (reply 3):
It would be expected airbus to win, if PAL decide to considering the 18 Airbus aircraft they already operate


While PAL does operate a good sized A330 and A340 fleet, the majority of its narrowbody fleet is B737-300/400s. They only have 3 A320s.
An Airbus win is far from certain. Additional used B737s or newer B737NGs are very possible.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineB7474 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 257 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 12958 times:

Wow, if PAL gets an A380 I wanna take it to the Philippines, i've never been on a PAL plane either when I go to the Philippines I usually take Asiana or NW.

User currently offlineN751PR From Japan, joined May 2002, 1249 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 12840 times:

Quoting Behramjee (reply 4):
PAL would find it extremely hard to fill up an A 380 on any of their long haul routes year round. This A 380 is turning out to be like the B 747-100 was in 1970-71...a major status symbol for airlines to have if they want to woo passengers on their aircraft and buy their tkts and not the competitors.

Actually I believe the A380 suits PR well. Currently PAL's fleet is stretched to the limit and seems to be hunting down capacity wherever possible. (I read Airways back in 2002-2003ish and they decreased the seat pitch of their aircraft by 1".) For example, an A380 would profit over flying MNL-LAX/SFO not only with passengers, but with all those hallmarks us Filipinos are known for....balikbayan boxes... Wink We're also the second largest Asian minority (behind the Chinese) and not to mention that it's kinda a tradition to make an exodus to visit our homeland once in a while...especially during the Christmas season. Finally, though PR faces competition from fellow Asian airlines, there's one thing PAL has an advantage in one thing for connecting domestic passengers...easier domestic connections thanks to a consolidated operation under one terminal at MNL.
Quoting Laxintl (reply 11):
While PAL does operate a good sized A330 and A340 fleet, the majority of its narrowbody fleet is B737-300/400s. They only have 3 A320s.
An Airbus win is far from certain. Additional used B737s or newer B737NGs are very possible.

Add three more A320s comrade. They just took delivery of three more just a while ago.  Smile

Quote:

5 January 2005
New fleet



Philippine Airlines took delivery last week of two virtually brand-new aircraft, both Airbus A320s, as part of a continuing drive to rejuvenate its fleet and offer a superior product to the riding public. A third A320 arrives on Dec. 9. The newly acquired airplanes - two of which are just a few months old and the other, a newly overhauled 5-year-old - replace older models in PAL's narrow-bodied fleet that now boasts an average age of under ten years. Main photo shows the two just-delivered aircraft at the NAIA ramp. Inset shows top PAL officials, led by president and chief operating officer Jaime J. Bautista (second from left), during the traditional pouring of champagne on the plane's nose, held over the weekend. He is flanked by executive vice president Henry So Uy (second from right), senior vice president for finance Andrew L. Huang (left), and senior assistant vice president Cesar Chiong (right).




View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © TonyV



Anyhow, it's good to hear PAL think more on the A380! Big grin



"Ladies and Gentlemen it's happy hour. You will get two approaches for the price of one."
User currently offlineCol From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2107 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 12155 times:

What about PR's order for 4 x 744's. Are they for the chop?

User currently offlineATCRick From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 772 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12061 times:
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Good afternoon all,

I'm having a little difficulty understanding how PAL can afford any A380's. It wasn't that long ago that they had to shut down because of a lack of funds. Have they received a cash infusion that I'm not aware of?



natch!!
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17026 posts, RR: 67
Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11883 times:

Could the A380 be configured to be a mixed pax/freighter? Perhaps a situation where part of a deck could be used at times as a freigher and at peak seasons, as a pax area? For airlines like Philippine, that could be an option.

The FAA will no longer certify new build combis with cargo and pax on the same deck. I don't know about other authorities but they all tend to look to each other. So flying to the US would not work. One options would be to make the main deck cargo and keep the upper deck as pax, but the pax capacity would only be on par with a 343 or so, so it's not a good option.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineMacmac76 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 11588 times:

Laxintl:

PAL now has 6 A320s with the addition of 3 of the type in December. These three airplanes replaced 3 B737-300 in the fleet, reducing the number of 733s to 4. It still flies 3 734s though.


User currently offlineN751PR From Japan, joined May 2002, 1249 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 11585 times:

Quoting ATCRick (reply 15):
I'm having a little difficulty understanding how PAL can afford any A380's. It wasn't that long ago that they had to shut down because of a lack of funds. Have they received a cash infusion that I'm not aware of?

Currently PAL is undergoing a restructuring program and seems to be going well at the moment. As for funds, I dunno where they got the financing but they somehow were able to add three more A320s and a 747-400 into the fleet...



"Ladies and Gentlemen it's happy hour. You will get two approaches for the price of one."
User currently offlineTravellin'man From United States of America, joined May 2001, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 11195 times:

The most interesting part of his comments to me is how the idea of a 380 purchase is tied up with political relations. What it sounds like he is doing is using the 380 as a way to leverage other issues, and not just ones affecting the right to fly to Europe. My hunch is that immigration might be a big bargaining point he is going after, getting more visas or guest worker permits to the EU.

The entry of politics into aircraft purchases gets people hot much of the time, and I think this is because we like to think that the market favor things on their own technological merit, rather than on their role in a larger economic and political game. In this case though, I have to say, if so, good for him and good for the Phillipines for trying to leverage things to their advantage, because usually it's the developing world that has litle bargaining power.



It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8003 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 11180 times:

I wouldn't be surprised that Phillipine Airlines is serious in getting the A380-800.

You're forgetting that both Hawaii and the Los Angeles/San Francisco metropolitan areas have HUGE Filipino expatriate populations. As such, they could easily support A388 flights between MNL and HNL/LAX/SFO most of the year.

Also, many Filipinos have gone to work in the Middle East, and that could support flights such as MNL-DXB with the A388.


User currently offlineAirlineAddict From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11154 times:
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I believe PAL would prefer to do the LAX and SFO flights to Manila non-stop as opposed to the current technical stop in Honolulu on westbound flights. This would help build Manila as a better hub from which to connect to flights to other Southeast Asian destionations in Thailand, Vietnam, Singapore, etc.

On another note, PAL has placed the return of flights to Italy as a top priority. Sounds like their starting their posturing to get the right access.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11138 times:

Philippines could operate their current flights nonstop with either their 343 or 744 equipment.

They choose to carry max pax AND cargo.

N


User currently offlineAirlineAddict From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11104 times:
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Good clarification Gigneil. I'm assuming that the A380 will allow PAL to potentially carry the same if not more pax and cargo compared to their 744s non-stop.

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11077 times:

Really depends on their cargo and their cabin configuration.

If they're carrying max structural payload they may not be able to load enough fuel to make the route nonstop even on the A380. I'd have to see if I can find a document with the chart.

With the reasonably low yield VFR traffic, they have to make up for it with more seats and lucrative cargo.

N


25 Laxintl : Trust me, PAL carries very little cargo between the US and the Philippines. The planes are full of baggage. Filipino's do not travel lightly. Day aft
26 Gigneil : Interesting. I was unaware of the nature of the load in the holds, I just knew it was significant. N
27 Ha763 : I've even seen PAL load pallets built up with bags. At first I thought it was cargo, but then I saw suitcases piled on top of the boxes.
28 AirlineAddict : Absolutely right about the boxes... and they are almost always at the 70 lb limit per piece. I haven't heard issues about bags being left behind latel
29 KL808 : With the addition of A380's to the fleet PR could free up the B747's to increase capacity on routes currently served by A340's (read YVR and LAS) and
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