Awschucksflyer From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 150 posts, RR: 0 Posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 13423 times:
In an internal memo, Air Canada is looking to place an order for 50 widebody aircraft over the next few months. The airline is looking at either the A350 or B787 (for delivery in 2010). The airline is looking for funding from either Boeing or Airbus to retro-fit existing B767 with new seats, in-seat tv's, and adding winglets to the 767, the latter the most interesting.
AA777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 2531 posts, RR: 30 Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11049 times:
Ooh... 787 here we come. This is an order Boeing realllly cant afford to lose in my opinion... 50 airliners? Plus they already have the 767.... would make sense for them to stick w/ boeing for that size of an airliner... but then they also have the 340 / 330, so its really a toss-up. My guess is that they'll swing Boeing... esp since the 330 and 350 are really not all THAT different................ just my speculation though.
Thrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2686 posts, RR: 10 Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10867 times:
How much longer before AA buys the 787? they have $2.9 billion in cash right now...I'm just surprised they have not already placed an order for a small amount like CO did...I definitely agree that AC is more likely to choose the 787 mainly because it is so much more advanced than the A350, I guess....is the A350 to feature a bleedless air system and engines like the 787? If not, I'm almost certain who the winner is As for the winglet proposal on the Boeing 767, I would love to see that....but what would they do that raked wingtips cannot do?
Udo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10622 times:
I expect Boeing to win this order, simply because the B787 offers more flexibility. AC can use B788/789 for long hauls and as a B767-300ER replacement, while B783 can be used efficiently on domestic and Caribbean runs.
DeltaWings From Switzerland, joined Aug 2004, 1289 posts, RR: 18 Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10341 times:
AC can use B788/789 for long hauls and as a B767-300ER replacement, while B783 can be used efficiently on domestic and Caribbean runs.
I agree. The 787 is a better 767 replacement, because of it's size. The A350 is no 762 replacement, it's too big, not like the 788. And if they want a bigger version they can get the 789. They will all be one family, so it would make things easier.
Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
Lawgman From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 71 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10320 times:
Does anyone believe Boeing will win this order? My guess is that Airbus will do whatever it takes to get this order. The only thing that I think gives Boeing a fighting chance is the fact the 787-800 and 900 may be better sizing for AC than the larger 350s.
Quoting United Airline (Reply 8): Wonder if they will order any 2nd hand B 747-400s, B 747 Advanced or even the A 380 eventually
AC got rid of their 747-400s last year and I don't think they will ever order the 380. These aircraft are too big. The biggest we will see from AC would be 340-600 / 777-300 sizing.
YUL332LX From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9689 times:
Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 14): The A350 is no 762 replacement, it's too big, not like the 788. And if they want a bigger version they can get the 789. They will all be one family, so it would make things easier.
The A358 and 788 will have virtually the same seating capacity so this is pointless. The A359 is a perfect match for the A333/343; the 789 is not (unless it gets the three-row stretch)
E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
Sebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1661 posts, RR: 15 Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9345 times:
For the upteenth time, this order will be for two, not one aircraft types. It will either be a combination of Boeing 777/787s, or Airbus 346/350s. And yes, Air Canada does want to have a bit more capacity than it gets from a 343 or 345 for routes like Toronto-London, Toronto-Frankfurt, Montreal-Paris and Vancouver-Tokyo. The reason it got rid of 747s was that the all-passenger models had too much capacity for year-round operations and the combis had poor overall economics. But a 325-seat aircraft like the 773 or 346 would work very nicely on AC's route network.
My guess is that this deal will have about 90 orders and options, split about 60/30. AC has about 70 widebodies now. The 787/350 component is about 50 units, plus 10 or so for growth, while the 777/346 component would be about 20 units, plus 10 or so for growth. AC needs capacity starting next year, and since the 787 won't be flying in commercial service for another few years, the front end aircraft (777/346) is very important.
What AC has asked Boeing and Airbus to do is quote on the replacement of the entire widebody fleet, plus growth aircraft. Obviously, this is a long-term replacement program since AC has some fairly new 767s, ergo the proposal to have the winning bidder fund the installation of winglets and interior cabin refits for that portion of the 767 fleet that will last well into the next decade. However, I am of the view that AC will also have the winner re-market some of its current larger widebodies - the 343s and 345s in particular, but not necessarily the 333s - which shouldn't be hard to do since you can hardly find a decent sized Airbus widebody on the used market these days.
Also, Air Canada will not order several Boeing or Airbus variants. It does not want the 777-200ER, the 777-300ER, the 777-200LR, the 777-200... It will order at most two of these and possibly only one (the 777-300ER). Similarly, with Airbus, it would order the 346-HGW and keep the 333. It would in all likelihood get rid of all 343. The airline has stated a preference for simplicity - not complexity. It finds more value in having an interchangeable fleet rather than one with the perfect A market, B market, C market mix. It does not want to have a situation where the inbound London-Toronto flight (let's say its a 777-300ER) lands with a problem and can't go back out to London, and all it has is a domestic 777 available as a spare). It wants the ability to take any widebody and send it overseas in place of that 777, which AC believes will optimize utilization. What it loses in unit operating efficiency (running a 773ER on a five-hour flight, for example), it believes it can get back through higher unit utilization (not having aircraft sit because they can't do particular missions as required).
Lawgman From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 71 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9097 times:
Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 20): Does anyone know if any Airbus and/or Boeing components are made in Canada?
There will be zero consideration as to whether any components of the planes will be built in Canada. This issue is a non-starter. If it were, Air Canada would not have ordered the 100+ Embraer planes. All variations of the CRJ are assembled in Canada and I believe that the 717 had components built in Canada.
Yyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16121 posts, RR: 57 Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9024 times:
For the upteenth time, this order will be for two, not one aircraft types. It will either be a combination of Boeing 777/787s, or Airbus 346/350s.
For the "umpteenth" time? Who are you to predict the future, let alone stifle other opinions? Until the order is placed, no one knows what the breakdown will be. Whether all 787, a mix of 787/777 with several 777 models, or ditto on the Airbus side.
Your guess is no better than anyone else's.
Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
25 Sebring: Actually, my "guess" is a lot better than yours because I have a source on the AC committee making the decision. Not that he's going to give the sligh
26 Yyz717: Actually, my "guess" is a lot better than yours because I have a source on the AC committee making the decision. Not that he's going to give the sligh