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Why Doesn't WN Order Exp. Planes?  
User currently offlineCOEWR777 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 428 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7450 times:

..........Why use a 737 for tpa-fll a 45 minute flight.

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKDTWFlyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 830 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7415 times:

WN is all about fleet commonality so getting exp (express?) planes doesn't agree with their operating philosophy.


NW B744 B742 B753 B752 A333 A332 A320 A319 DC10 DC9 ARJ CRJ S340
User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7390 times:

Keep it simple, and if it isn't broken don't go of trying to screw it up!

User currently offline1MillionFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7361 times:

there is a lot more to the cost of operating an airplane than just the acquisition cost. Crew training, spare parts, the little seat back briefing cards...it all adds up, having only one type of plane is cost effective

I was on a WN 73G from SNA-LAS yesterday, let me tell you, it was 40 dollars cheaper and waaaaay more comfortable than a CRJ with "another" airline


User currently offlineJean Leloup From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2116 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7351 times:

What is an Exp plane?


Next flight.... who knows.
User currently offlineUSAir330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 824 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7331 times:

I think he means Express like CRJ's, Embraer 135,145,170 etc.

User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7293 times:

Have you ever flown WN on these short-haul routes?

FLL-TPA, DAL-HOU, AUS-HOU, AUS-DAL, SAN-LAS, LAX-LAS, PHX-LAS, etc. etc. are always packed. They'd need to do 100 daily flights on each of these routes just to match the demand.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineErikwilliam From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 2152 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7269 times:

exp as EXPecial??? or as express???
WN discovered a way to make money in such a competitive market specially the American one, with so many carriers.
What they could do is create a feeder carrier, with small turboprops like
EMB-120, then we would see WN in the backyard of your neighboors



Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7192 times:

First of all do some research before you post on a topic as simple as why WN flys only 1 type of a/c please.

Quoting KDTWFlyer (Reply 1):
WN is all about fleet commonality so getting exp (express?) planes doesn't agree with their operating philosophy.


The most exact, best answer for the post. Couldn't have stated it any better there.

1 type of a/c they eliminate all the costs of different parts/services/training crews etc.



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineSkywatch From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 923 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7158 times:

I go with KDTWFlyer. It is all about fleet commonality. And why try out another aircraft when your safety record is so clean. The 737 has proven itself to be a dependedent and efficient aircraft for WN. I think in the future they might buy some of Boeing's new single-aisle 737 replacements though.


------Forever Watchin' The Sky------
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7148 times:

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 8):
First of all do some research before you post on a topic as simple as why WN flys only 1 type of a/c please.


Hey, he's a 13-15 year old who just joined 51 days ago...

Is cutting him some "slack" out of the question?  duck 


User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7019 times:

OMG........please forgive me!  sarcastic 

I don't read ever member profile! get over it.



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5845 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6978 times:

Whoa, sounds like someone didn't get his midol tablets this morning.

Welcome, COEWR777.
WN has stated that they are, indeed, looking into regional jet-type aircraft. But, for now, it looks like they'll stick with the 737 until something better (hint hint) comes along.


User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6456 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6942 times:



Quoting Ssides (Reply 6):
FLL-TPA, DAL-HOU, AUS-HOU, AUS-DAL, SAN-LAS, LAX-LAS, PHX-LAS, etc. etc. are always packed. They'd need to do 100 daily flights on each of these routes just to match the demand.

Does someone have numbers on TPA-JAX/FLL/PBI flights? I doubt that they are packed unless its non tag-end traffic.



Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17544 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6865 times:

In 2004 TPA-JAX/FLL/PBI averaged about a maximum LF 60% between the three, with TPA/PBI being particularly awful.


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineFlyabunch From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 517 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6833 times:

I would imagine that economy wise, a 30-40 minute flight on a fairly full 737 is economically comparable or better than 2-3 flights on the same route with an express jet. That takes care of the logic all by itself.

I have flown OAK-RNO, which is a 45-50 min flight, several times and they are always full.

Mike


User currently offlineFlyer737sw From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 135 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6817 times:



Quoting Flyabunch (Reply 15):
I have flown OAK-RNO, which is a 45-50 min flight, several times and they are always full.

Thats from gate to gate...Actual flight time is under 30 min...Dosen't get any better than that...Headin out there tomorrow, hopefully its nice...

Kevin


User currently offlineFlyabunch From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 517 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6757 times:



Quoting Flyer737sw (Reply 16):
Thats from gate to gate...Actual flight time is under 30 min

Your right! It is a great "E" coupon ride. You drop like a rock into RNO. One of my favorite routes.

Mike


User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6637 times:

I flew STL-MDW contiuation from MCO, only 6 people stayed on board to MDW from MCO and the load was 130/137. quite alot of people for just STL-MDW.
Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineNjdevilsin03 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 730 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6589 times:

The FLL-TPA flights are pretty packed. I have heard that the PBI flights are fare so I am sure that's what is bringing that load factor down to 60%.


717, 727, 731, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 752, 753, 762, 763, 777, DC9, MD80, DC10, L1011, ERJ, CRJ, ATR, DH8, A300,
User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6540 times:



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 12):
Whoa, sounds like someone didn't get his midol tablets this morning.

Unecessary... ashamed 

If you know one thing about WN, their great financial success has been due to the fact they operate a single type a/c, the Boeing 737 family. Every plane freak knows this... banghead 

Regards.


User currently offlineNavairjax From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6501 times:

I just got back from a JAX-FLL-JAX run this weekend both flights were full(although there were some pax continuing from ORF on the JAX-FLL leg). I don't know how midweek loads are but the lowest I have had on any of my FLL flights was a half full plane on a Saturday morning. (I fly down there 4-5 times a year) I havn't done a JAX-TPA since early 2003 but again I do remember a full flight on the Sunday evening.

User currently offlineSv11 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6440 times:

Another short WN flight is MDW-IND. Having flown on the CRJ it seems like a toy jet compared to the 737.

sv11


User currently offlineUA777222 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3348 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6171 times:

One good part of their 737 fleet is that they are able to run such a short route and then turn that same a/c around on a longer route that will connect to another flight. They keep to airports with major numbers of their a/c and are still able to keep their low low low prices. I have seen it happen many times with UA while @ their MX center.

A good example was of a United 767-300ER that flew HNL-LAX-DEN. It arrived DEN and required a peace for its upcoming flight the following day. The a/c would fly DEN-HNL the following morning. By the time the a/c had arrived, de-plained, and headed towards the MX the 6:00 SFO-DEN flight had boarded and departed. After the peace was located the 8:00 SFO-DEN had boarded and was being held at the gate for this peace. A bunch of dudes run to the gate to put the peace on the a/c and find that the a/c is an Airbus and isn't long enough to carry the 11ft peace.

Having the last SFO-DEN flight left and an 11ft peace of metle that needed to get to DEN by 7am (the mx needed something like 3 hours before the a/c was due at the gate) the MX guys were a bit stumped and asked the stores if the part was correct. The part was correct so they ended up sending the peace in the belly of a United 757 SFO-ORD arriving ORD just after 5am. After it arrived in ORD it would get on another 757 and fly ORD-DEN and arrive DEN by 8am. They pushed the DEN flight back the proper amount of hours and the flight took off some time late.

The point of this is that United and other airlines a like suffer the most from having to deal with set backs such as an a/c not being big enough to fit a peace to another down a/c at another airport or unpredicted peaces and flights. WN has made it so that no matter what flight, be it a 30 min hop or a 5 hour x-country that they are dealing with the same a/c, same engines, same peaces, same restrictions (to a degree), etc. To be honest I can see WN throwing back any express a/c they purchase, if they do at all, b/c of the trouble the crews and mx alike will deal with. What they have built and what they continue to use is a system that is hard to beat and only proves to help the airline.

It's b/c of this a/c that they have cash in the bank and its that reason why they buy more and more a/c. It also allows for future plans in their route map. They don't have to feel the restriction of a certain a/c on routes. Now they can't push it like US-EU routes but they're not in that market to begin with.

If anything its why would they order express a/c. They are successful with such an a/c in their feet in such large numbers. It makes working around them easier, fixing them easier, and most of all operating them easier. And they choose an a/c that has a bullet proof rep. and proves, to this day, to be one of the safest a/c in the skies today. The NG's haven't had ONE fatal accident in it's history, talk about bragging rights.

Sure there might be a need for a smaller a/c but why mess something that's perfect? If its working don't mess with it.

Thanks,

Matt



"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
User currently offlineM404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2226 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5813 times:
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Southwest I suspect does not buy into the Express fable where you pay someone a guaranteed price on routes you cannot make a profit on yourself. That just means the Express carrier turns out to be more profitable than you.


Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
25 Swatpamike : Hello all True, but PBI-TPA is almost always full with people that transfer in TPA to other destinations. Cheers swatpamike
26 Post contains images 7E72004 : To answer the original queston...Southwest is going to put an order for a few A380s
27 Thrust : WN in my opinion does not need the express planes...all it would do is add diversity to their fleet, which is breaking with a tradition that has serve
28 HZ747300 : I'm going to trust WN's judgement over yours on this one. It has been said over and over again, pick your cliche: fleet commonality If it ain't broke
29 MaverickM11 : "True, but PBI-TPA is almost always full with people that transfer in TPA to other destinations." PBI-TPA ran an average load factor of 55% in 2004.
30 BNAflyer78 : Another short flight (45 minutes scheduled but flight time around 20 minutes) is BNA-BHM, flown 3x daily. I've taken this flight numerous times, and i
31 Post contains images KaiGywer : How about EXPired
32 FutureATP : One thing. According to the July 2004 edition of Airways mag. P.15 "Southwest is looking at the E-jet family very closely" This was a article that was
33 Kanebear : I'm sure just as AA are "looking into" the 'airline-within-airline' concept, WN are "looking into" regional jets.
34 Post contains images SWA TPA : Ok, I just have to join into this thread! As a Customer Service Agent in TPA I can tell you first hand that those TPA-FLL flights are full. Especially
35 AADC10 : One of the reasons that WN is not going to use commuter planes is related to the length of flights. The business model, as has been well documented, i
36 MD80Nut : I've flown FLL - TPA many times and it's always full or almost full. Since I have several relatives and friends in the Tampa area I've taken that hop
37 Post contains links SunriseValley : I would commend those of you who are interested to go to http://www.southwest.com/about_swa/press/factsheet.html#Fleet and get current on WN's operati
38 N1120A : BHM, JAN, SMF, GEG, HRL, TUS, ALB, BOI, OMA and others all don't meet those criteria They are 100 seat planes, which I don't think anyone calls an RJ
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