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Airline Computer Res Systems  
User currently offlineWDBRR From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 610 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 11865 times:

I always wondered what happens to the reservations
systems when an airline shuts down and liquidates.
Do they just trash it and all the software with it?
I think PanAm had "Panamac", Eastern had "SystemOne"
TWA "Pars", the original Braniff res system.
I remember seeing a picture of a Braniff computer
room in DFW that was taken in the late 70's.
It looked very impressive and advanced for the 70's.
a good advanced system winds up in the junk yard??

83 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 11836 times:

Don't know about Panamac or SystemOne, however, PARS (Passanger Airline Reservation System) is still alive and kicking.

From what I understand It was a seperate company co-owned by TWA, NWA, and I beleive a few others, though I know that NWA has divested its ownership, and I beleive AA is only holding a small peice of what TWA had before the merger.

PARS is now known as Worldspan (bleck...does that actually mean anything?) and still processes the reservations and related functions for Northwest Airlines. If I remember correctly from the trip I booked via Orbitz, they use Worldspan to generate the reservations.

These days all of the major Global Distribution Systems (GDS) aka Computer Reservation Systems (CRS) are owned/operated by "independent" companies -- I.e. SABRE Holdings Group owns SABRE, Worldspan L.P. owns Worldspan, Cendant owns Apollo/Galileo (used/created by UA), so if say, UA were to cease to exist, Apollo would still be around.

Lincoln



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 11821 times:



Quoting WDBRR (Thread starter):
", Eastern had "SystemOne"

System One was bought by Amadeus and merged into Amadeus Global Core. I think some of the old System One software was retained but it has probably been re-engineered long since.

Nowadays there are relatively few carriers that have their own in-house RES systems - its only the larger carriers, or smaller carriers with REALLY old legacy systems they daren't move off of because of the trauma involved. All the rest are either hosted by other carriers, or in shared systems such as Sabre, SHARES or SITA Gabriel. Changing RES/Inventory systems is a huge deal for an airline, and can be traumatic, so it doesn't happen often.

Amadeus are in the process of migrating Grupo TACA at the moment from Sabre to Amadeus Distribution (Altea Sell) + Lufthansa Systems Inventory/DCS, the process should be complete by April. We migrate about 10-12 airlines per year onto Altea Sell distribution, with Inventories hosted in a variety of systems, AF (Alpha3), LH (LSY), IB (Resiber), SITA Gabriel, or Amadeus' own new shiny all-singing, all-dancing inventory system Altea Plan (BA, QF and DI are already migrated, AY will be migrating later this year, and SA migrating early next year).


User currently offlineCragley From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 427 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 11774 times:

TG has Amadeus for bookings they create, but use the ROYAL system to deal with agent bookings an bookings not made in Amadeus. ROYAL is ver ysimilar to PARS.

User currently offlineLapper From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 1565 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 11762 times:

Cendant also owns Orbitz now, so no doubt will be migrating from Worldspan over to Galileo very soon if they haven't done so already.

User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 11759 times:



Quoting Cragley (Reply 3):
TG has Amadeus for bookings they create, but use the ROYAL system to deal with agent bookings an bookings not made in Amadeus.

This is true. The same applies to SK and their 30-odd hosted carriers as well. TG and SK have the ability to "push" bookings made direct in Royal/ResAid to Amadeus if they want.

This was a set up considered necessary at the time Amadeus was founded, because SK and TG were not able (TG) or willing (SK) to fully adapt their systems to the Amadeus System User concept. Let's just say it works how it works, but we wouldn't do it again. It means for instance that SK(+hosted) and TG segments cannot be accepted as informational arrival/continuation segments in bookings received in Amadeus from other GDS's, which is a pain for Star Alliance system users.


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7152 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 11738 times:

The main problem behind own-airline systems is that any software development is unique for that carrier. So, if they want to introduce self-service kiosks, online checkin, (etc ad nausium) the core mainframe work involved is not shared between other carriers, and it is very expensive, as items are to be developed from scratch.

I wonder if the SK hosting system will be one item to go with their financial crisis?



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 11730 times:



Quoting BestWestern (Reply 6):
I wonder if the SK hosting system will be one item to go with their financial crisis?

I believe (I could be wrong) that maintenance and development of SK's hosting system has been outsourced already.


User currently offlineWDBRR From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 11711 times:

Does Continental use the old SystemOne system they inherited
from Eastern or do they use Amadeus?


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 11711 times:



Quoting WDBRR (Reply 8):
Does Continental use the old SystemOne system they inherited from Eastern or do they use Amadeus?

We wish !

The "travel agent" bit of System One was the part bought by Amadeus. The "airline" bit of System One became SHARES, which CO still use, although it is now owned and operated by EDS. There is a co-host partition of SHARES called SHARES B which is used by VS, HP, MX, AM and others.


User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 11694 times:



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 9):
There is a co-host partition of SHARES called SHARES B which is used by VS, HP, MX, AM and others.

I thought that HP very recently (like in the past two weeks) moved from SHARES to SABRE, no?

Lincoln



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineCragley From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 427 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 11672 times:

JGP: I used to work for TG and it was a pain in the ass at times cause you couldnt see the continuation of flights.

Saying that, Amadeus is such an amazing system, but very frustrating to learn if you had come from Sabre. Every entry seems to be twice as long but it is so accurate.


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 11669 times:



Quoting Cragley (Reply 11):
Saying that, Amadeus is such an amazing system, but very frustrating to learn if you had come from Sabre. Every entry seems to be twice as long but it is so accurate.

And you don't have to figure out what the hell a Cross of Lorraine is ! I'm glad you're find 1A useful. It's true that 1A inputs are longer, but it does make the system easier to use, because there is very little ambiguity about what your are entering. Each parameter has its own defined input code, so there can be no mistakes.


User currently offlinePlanefool1010 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 14 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 11629 times:

Does anybody know if DL systems (Deltamatic) is restrictly an in-house systems or is this an independent system?

User currently offlineElectraBob From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 931 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 11618 times:



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 12):

And you don't have to figure out what the hell a Cross of Lorraine is !

I was on Worldspan for 10 years and am now using SABRE ....I still get that cross of lorraine mixed up with the end item key.  smile 

Being in the Detroit area, I sell a ton of Northwest Airlines...using SABRE to request a NWA seat can be a real adventure....you have to request the seat, end and retrieve the record, and then ignore and retrieve over and over and over (sometimes up to 20 times) before you get your stupid seat confirmed. Drives me nuts.



Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.....
User currently offlineNWrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 84 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 11613 times:

Quoting ElectraBob (Reply 14):
I was on Worldspan for 10 years and am now using SABRE ....I still get that cross of lorraine mixed up with the end item key.

Being in the Detroit area, I sell a ton of Northwest Airlines...using SABRE to request a NWA seat can be a real adventure....you have to request the seat, end and retrieve the record, and then ignore and retrieve over and over and over (sometimes up to 20 times) before you get your stupid seat confirmed. Drives me nuts.

If you makes you feel any better, it drives us nuts too in reverse. There's something about the link between Worldspan and SABRE that seems to take forever, although, oddly enough, it seems to be airline specific. I get requests back from AS almost immediately, while stuff from AA or US seem to take forever. Go figure that one.

The one thing I don't like about working in NW Res is that they use ResNet, which is an overlay on Worldspan (PARS). While there are no entries to make, it does sometimes make finding what I want more difficult. Considering I came from AA as a gate agent, all I can say is give me a SABRE set any day!

(And besides, isn't that Cross of Lorraine kind of, well, interesting? I had never seen anything like that until going to work for AA)

Curious though... Can you see the NW seat map on SABRE, or do you just have to do a general SSR request and cross your fingers?

[Edited 2005-03-10 16:29:00]


Welcome to the back of the boat...the non-rev section
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 11598 times:



Quoting ElectraBob (Reply 14):
you have to request the seat, end and retrieve the record, and then ignore and retrieve over and over and over (sometimes up to 20 times) before you get your stupid seat confirmed. Drives me nuts.

Ah waiting for the TTY response - yes, ain't that fun. NW has fairly low access levels with all the CRS's except Worldspan. 1A have Access Sell with NEW, but only Direct Access seatmap (which produces a completely unreadable seatmap format !), but only standard SSR Seat request (no interactive seating). No polled availability either, so our rejected sell rate with NW is quite high.


User currently offlineElectraBob From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 931 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 11587 times:



Quoting NWrr (Reply 15):
Curious though... Can you see the NW seat map on SABRE, or do you just have to do a general SSR request and cross your fingers?

[Edited 2005-03-10 16:29:00]

I can see the seat map....only thing is, I have to hit the change key and then move down to see the continuation of the map....can be fun if I am trying to find a seat on a NWA 744 and the only open seats are way in the back of the aircraft.

One other thing about SABRE that causes me problems is their exchange feature....you have to turn the exchange mode on, and, remember to turn it off after you have done the exchange. We have a branch office in Downtown Detroit....if I forget to turn the mode off, the poor woman downtown cannot do anything....can't store a fare, can't run a ticket etc. She has had to call me more than once and yell at me (in a nice way) to turn that stupid exchange mode off.  smile 



Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.....
User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 11548 times:



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 16):
No polled availability either, so our rejected sell rate with NW is quite high.

Sorry to be the outsider here to ask, but what the heck, CRS/GDSes are probably the most interesting part of commercial avaiation to me, so I'll ask anyways:

Can you distill that to something I could understand, please?

Thanks Big grin

Lincoln
[Yeah, I'm one of those people who would kill for access to my raw PNR, let alone direct Sabre/Amadeus/Worldspan/et. al.]



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlinePA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2006 posts, RR: 23
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 11538 times:
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Quoting Cragley (Reply 11):
Saying that, Amadeus is such an amazing system, but very frustrating to learn if you had come from Sabre. Every entry seems to be twice as long but it is so accurate.

Having just recently converted from Sabre to Amadeus, I admit it was a little rough - especially on the ticketing/invoicing side. However, Amadeus is ultimately a much better system than Sabre. A few extra keystrokes is a small price to pay for so much added functionality



It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
User currently offlineWDBRR From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 11456 times:

One more question....is the formats and commands the same on Shares as the old SystemOne? LA$R ? $EWRFLL1APR ?

User currently offlineUA772IAD From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 1730 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 11449 times:

My friend who is a travel agent said that SABRE was desinged for Delta, but is more commonly used by United. However, Travel agencies can use any of the variety of programs. As for the airlines themselves, I haven't a clue. I do remember once a UA gate agent in RNO showed me how to check in, and there's something called the "pillow" key... anyone know what this is?

All I know is that they are very complicated systems, and job training at airlines for customer service and representative positions can take usually 6 weeks to complete (with a variety of tests to weed out those who are "weak")


User currently offlineDAYGS From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 62 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 11409 times:

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 21):
My friend who is a travel agent said that SABRE was desinged for Delta

SABRE was created for/by AA...not DL. EDS now operates the system.


User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 11404 times:

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 21):
My friend who is a travel agent said that SABRE was designed for Delta, but is more commonly used by United.

You might advise your friend to check his facts. SABRE was built by IBM for American, starting in the late 50s. The idea to build a system came about after an encounter between AA Chairman C.R. Smith and a senior IBM Salesman on an AA flight. It was custom built for AA and wasn't marketed to other airlines until the 70s. United built and still uses the Apollo system (unless Apollo has been completely merged into Galileo?).

I've worked on all of the original US based systems, including (way back when) DATAS, SODA (System One's original name) and PARS. I left the CRS side of the industry just as Amadeus was coming into its own, so other than some demos I've never had an opportunity to deal with it. I still go nuts when I book on-line, knowing how much information is being kept from me, and how much quicker I could find what I want and make the booking if I could just get at the native application. I'm still cussing SABRE for cutting off the Commercial SABRE w/ Bypass application.

What is the central processor language for Amadeus?

Duane



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 11390 times:

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 21):
My friend who is a travel agent said that SABRE was desinged for Delta, but is more commonly used by United.

Woha... SABRE (Semi-Automated Business Research Environment), as mentioned was designed, built, and for a long time owned by American...when American's president and IBM's president ended up next to each other on a flight and got to talking.

United has absoultely nothing to do with SABRE... United lives in Apollo/Amadaeus, which United designed, built, and for a long time owned.

I'd still love to have someone explain what JGPH1A meant by "No polled availability either, so our rejected sell rate with NW is quite high" in laymans terms.

Lincoln



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
25 Hawaiian717 : No. That was Frontier that just made the move, not America West. I don't remember having these isses with NW on Apollo. It does sound like what we ha
26 Goldenshield : Working cargo was no different. These is SHARES for CO, which uses basically the same (if worded different) entry strings as both the former TWA syste
27 GlobeTrekker : I wonder if and when my employer (KLM) will switch from CORDA/CODECO to Amadeus/Gaetan, since AF uses these systems. At AMS selected reservation/ticke
28 Greenguy01 : Don't forget about Open Skies by Navitaire. A number of airlines use this res system.
29 Searpqx : In short - polled availability means that the polling system (in this case Amadeus) sends a message to the airline asking for an update on availabili
30 JGPH1A : Searpqx above just gave a great response - he's spot on, although there are 2 ways to get a real-time availability status from an airline. One is pol
31 Cragley : Sorry guys, SIMULTANEOUS CHANGES!!!
32 Post contains images NWrr : LOL! That drives me up the wall, especially because I'm doing something with a codeshare itin. When I ER (End & Retrieve) the record, if I don't IR (I
33 Post contains images JGPH1A : Yup - the joys of non-interactive Record Locator return Gets you EVERY time. That or having the schedules out of synch and the segment getting confir
34 BestWestern : Finally a discussion where people see the value of the GDS - If we could now only get two of them to merge - eh.... JPGH! When a carrier is hosted on
35 Post contains images JGPH1A : TN is hosted in Sabre (bizarrely enough !) and VT is too, I think. Odd but true. There are rumours that TN might move to 1A/AF but we'll see. Wouldn'
36 Lrgt : How about TASAR (Technologically Advanced Spirit Airlines Reservations)? This system just came out. I heard they built it themselves for a one-time co
37 Searpqx : Thanks for the info JGPH1A - I was involved in the tale end of the discussions between SABRE and Amadeus, just before the partnership was called off,
38 V Jet : From an end users point of view I wouldn't exactly call Altea Plan all singing all dancing just yet!
39 AirTran737 : I love my Openskies. It's idiot proof. The commands are simple, and the system can be learned in less that a business week.
40 Post contains links GuyBetsy1 : Here's an interesting fact.... ABACUS, which is founded by Singapore Airlines and Cathay Pacific in 1988 is now co-owned by more than 10 different air
41 Lincoln : Huh, I wonder why I thought it was HP. I stand corrected. Excellent explanation, thank you! Gahh... Thanks for pointing that out (and thanks for the
42 Lrgt : There are actually some small airlines that still do this. The way the messages get converted to email is by ARINC's "AviNet Mail" program. I am wond
43 Cragley : Ok here is a weird one for you. One time when I was at TG I was going through dupe PNR's (2 agents make the same booking). One was on Sabre and the ot
44 Leskova : The most annoying thing that I see - unfortunately - quite regularly is the malfunctioning of the gateways inbetween the systems... One example that I
45 JGPH1A : Shhhh ! Don't TELL them ! It's getting there though - considering it the first truly fully functional new O&D-based inventory system that's been deve
46 TKMCE : The most annoying thing that I see - unfortunately - quite regularly is the malfunctioning of the gateways inbetween the systems... *********** Dot te
47 JGPH1A : I worked on the new Extended Itinerary PNR display to include RLOCs on the segment line (a piece of work I'm particularly proud of !) - it is good to
48 Lrgt : This sounds interesting, but I don't understand. Could you explain it in a little more detail???
49 Whlinder : I've read/heard some info on a new, 'alternative' GDS called G2/Switchworks. What is the deal with them? How is their system compared to the big 4 GDS
50 RDUDDJI : This is a great thread! I wish I'd seen it earlier. I've used and would rank the following RES Systems in this order: 1. SABRE 2. Apollo 3. Openskies
51 Cragley : LRGT: OK say if you are booked in V class with an airline (low booking class) when you get to check in, the check in system only sees you as an econom
52 Post contains images Leskova : Yup, but no-one seems to be able to figure out where the problem lies - it's actually not only happened to us on RG, but also on two or three other a
53 BestWestern : But both are partly owned by AF! Bizarre! Well, what can I say... The next eighteen months will proove this point. A 1A and 1P merger would make so m
54 Post contains images JGPH1A : (takes bow) Glad you like them ! From Aug/Sep they will get even better - connections will be built fully dynamically, taking advantage of the up to
55 TKMCE : 1. Sabre (most flexible: you can even issue tickets out of PNRs with rejected passives) ********* Amadeus has TY or Temporary Ticketing mode which all
56 JGPH1A : I don't know. TY mode was great but subject to a lot of abuse, esp. ticketing non-existent bookings. 1A got no segment fee for those tickets, and the
57 Leskova : TY still exists - or at least it did 2 or 3 months ago... The difference is this: in Sabre, our ticketing robots can create a passive PNR and build th
58 TKMCE : TY mode had a lot if its uses as well. Not all markets are straight forward as far as ticketing is concerned . Also tell me how do you ticket a PNR wi
59 TKMCE : TY, unfortunately, just doesn't work with ticketing robots (or at least not the TY mode I know) - and since, on weak days, we go through something bet
60 Lrgt : Specifically what features? WHAT IS THAT ???!!!
61 Leskova : That's a so-called long-sell command... "0" stands for "sell" "PG" is the airline (Bangkok Airways) "179" the flight number "Y" the booking class (Ec
62 Searpqx : Like everyone else, I'm loving this thread. I haven't had a chance to use my old CRS knowledge in years! That's the long sell entry to sell a specific
63 Post contains images Lincoln : I'm guessing -- and just guessing since I've never actually used a CRS, had access to a CRS, or even really been able to see someone else using a CRS
64 Leskova : THANK YOU!!!! I was always wondering what the NN stands for - I had already somewhat resigned to never really finding out, because everyone kept tell
65 SegmentKing : some of you NN to consider HK'ing some other hobbies than GDS language :P -n
66 Post contains images Leskova : SegmentKing - XI that thought!
67 Searpqx : Lincoln - yes, you're almost right on. Continental lives in Shares, which is now owned and operated by EDS. Shares is the descendent of Continental's
68 RDUDDJI : The version I used was carrier specific...but I don't think Openskies supports Hotel or car reservations. The version I used had trouble implementing
69 Post contains images Leskova : I've also become quite attached to the occasional "Your Agency is not authorized to issue Electronic Tickets - please contact your Sabre Sales Execut
70 TKMCE : For Amadeus users booking India (and quite a few other airlines - I think AZ is one other) 1 AI RT H3567 Gives you the native airline PNR display. Ver
71 Post contains images Gib : Jeeez...all this old CRS talk is makin' me feel old... Man, I remember Sabre training in 1984 @ DFW... We had these deeeluxe monochrome (sp?) monitors
72 Rjnut : Speaking of old "CRS speak", a woman i worked with used to work at the old Midway reservations office and evidently, the code to "list" a non rev was
73 WDBRR : Eastern res had the best Telex screens in the 80's... the screen was split into four boxes, each box displayed a different thing...one was availabilit
74 Greenguy01 : I learned at WN that listing a non-rev was maybe-maybe "MM"[Edited 2005-03-18 05:46:28]
75 JGPH1A : No - most airline telecoms (from the 50' up till the arrival of IP) was done by SITA (Societe International des Telecommunications Aeronautiques (?))
76 GlobeTrekker : I think SITA is also the company that introduced CUTE (Common Use Terminal Equipment)? I always see their name on the background. This allows anyone t
77 Jopavon : Is it possible to see online availability like a travel agent does? And by that I mean: "F3 J4 D4 Y9 H9 X9 etc."
78 Aerorobnz : Amadeus is just about Foolproof. It is so easy to use that you barely need to be taught how to use it. I was trained on Amadeus after Galileo, and fo
79 Womack17 : Quck question - Before Sabre merged into Travelocity for the general public, one could use the old Sabre system - which I was trained on. I hate the f
80 Post contains links Squirrel83 : [1] (http://www.dot.gov/affairs/Computer%20Reservations%20System.htm) Name Created by Also used by Market share* Amadeus (based on Eastern Airlines
81 FURUREFA : Great information! Is there any way to get all the information that travel agents do? Mat
82 Post contains images Leskova : I know there used to be a "Sabre Availability Tool" out there, through which you could access the - as the name already says - availability displays
83 Post contains images JGPH1A : Good luck with that ! Carina is a very old BA RTZ clone (I think) - runs on ALCS. Es un gran limon ! Er - used by Continental ? No. Isn't now, never
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