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A Little Scary... SAM Sites In DC  
User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9067 times:

So I just stumbled upon an article from AOPA. The government is now placing fixed SAM sites around Washington DC now. I'm guessing this isn't new, but its a little scary, knowing as how many people accidentally violate that ADIZ.

http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2005/050308missile.html



Anybody know what kind of missiles these are?

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9042 times:

I'm sure that a 18 year old kid solo in a 152 will not have a SAM blowing him out of the sky without any warning. Best way to keep yourself safe is to just keep 121.5 flight watch in comm 2.

User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8978 times:

Gotta love this quote from the Navy PR guy...

"Lt. Cmdr. Ed Zeigler, public affairs officer for the Naval District of Washington, was recently quoted in the Washington Post as saying that the launcher is part of the North American Aerospace Defense Command's Operation Noble Eagle, a program designed to tighten national security since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. He says the six non-nuclear missiles in the launcher could "counter an inbound threat."

Well, I'm -so- glad he cleared -that- up....  Wink

(Hey, we missed the errant 172, but we destroyed everything in a 30nm radius...)


User currently offlineAfay1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1293 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8960 times:

Well, ahem, it is an important point, actually. American and Russian missile defenses theoretically have relied on nuclear-tipped interceptors in the past. The ABM system (called Galosh) that protects Moscow may still have nuclear tipped interceptors ready to fire, the idea being that a nuclear explosion could knock out incoming missiles. Since we have no remotely workable system ourselves, the pentagon has not disavowed such a system as well. Don't look up when the bomb goes off though, hehe. If you look on Yahoo or whatever, there is tons and tons of information on this topic....

User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8917 times:

The SAM sites that protect the No-Fly Zone around the White House operate with non-nuclear heat seeking Stinger missles.

Regards.


User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8895 times:

Just did some googling and found out they're surface based AMRAAMs.... based off of a Norwegian design.

User currently offlineGOCAPS16 From Japan, joined Jan 2000, 4339 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8828 times:

Yup, I see them all over in D.C...especially around the Pentagon.

Kevin


User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8791 times:



Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 5):
Just did some googling and found out they're surface based AMRAAMs.... based off of a Norwegian design

The AMRAAM (Advanced Medium-Range, Air-to-Air missile) is a air-to-air missle that is used by the Navy and Air Force a/c.

These aren't the ones that protect the No-Fly-Zone around the DC area.

As I stated, the SAM sites use Stingers, manufactured by Hughes Missile System Company and General Dynamics /Raytheon Corporation.

Regards.


User currently offlineM404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2225 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8687 times:
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My notes show the Stinger to be a shoulder fired missle like the ones we gave up in Afganistan during the Russian occupation. I'd bet these are Raytheon Patriots. Hopefully the newer ones that work.

[Edited 2005-03-10 11:55:38]


Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8677 times:

Stinger is a shoulder fired MANPAD which does not require a fixed launcher.

Stinger was available in D.C. well before 9/11 but has since been supplemented by the new system.

Stinger just didn't have the range to make a difference in 9/11 type of attack.

regards


User currently offlineAA777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 2544 posts, RR: 28
Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8573 times:
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The one there in the picture is 10 minutes from my house.... and residents in my area arent very comfortable with it... but there's no moving it as the gov't claims that its one of a few suitable spots for it. (Planes that are routed on the potomac approach generally start filing in over the potomac right where that SAM thing is.... you see them all the time

-AA777


User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 53
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8470 times:



Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 7):
The AMRAAM (Advanced Medium-Range, Air-to-Air missile) is a air-to-air missle that is used by the Navy and Air Force a/c.

These aren't the ones that protect the No-Fly-Zone around the DC area.

As I stated, the SAM sites use Stingers, manufactured by Hughes Missile System Company and General Dynamics /Raytheon Corporation.

You are wrong. That missile unit pictured in the original post is the US version of the Norwegian "NASAMS" which stands for Norwegian Advanced Surface to Air Missile System. It fires a ground-based version of the AMRAAM missile, as FlyF15 correctly states in reply 5.

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-120.html

"The AIM-120 missile is also used in some ground-launched applications. Norway uses the NASAMS (Norwegian Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile System), which employs the AMRAAM missile from a six-round box launcher. NASAMS became operational in 1995. Although the designation MIM-120A is sometimes quoted for the missiles, this is not an official DOD designation."

http://www.deagel.com/pandora/?p=pm00229001

Are you still going to insist that they are Stingers? Cause you'd still be wrong...

Greg



Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
User currently offlineQxq400 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8438 times:

YAHOO!!, How would you like to be on that F9 plane a year or so back when they "accidentally" violated the airspace around the Whitehouse. eyepopping 


Welcome baby Madison Renee
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29795 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8408 times:

Didn't know that we had those, but Greg is correct on the box launcher.

However I have also seen Avenger Units and Stingers assigned to DC too.

Avenger is a bank of Stingers mounted on the back of a Humvee. It replaced the old Chaparrel system. Is this system meant to replace what Hawks are remaining in service?



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineFlybyguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1801 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8196 times:

Killing people to protect monuments or buildings is not proper at all. Though our monuments are symbols of our nation's pride and glory we should only shoot down aircraft that are an imminent danger to more lives than the plane can theoretically carry.

I see the sh*t hitting the fan if they launch one of those missiles at a Cessna and having fire, ash, and debris rain down upon one of those poor communities within the periphery of the government district of DC.

Things get far worse when you have a fully fueled jumbo jet that needs to be shot down. It will be interesting to figure where they may have burn to the ground as a result of THAT military interception.



"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8153 times:
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Greg is correct. Raytheon and GD co-developed a system called HUMRAAM, which is a HMWWV mounted ground launched AIM-120 system.

THe Norwegians, who have a serious ground based defence system with missiles and artillery have effectively turned it into a medium range SAM system that costs somewhat less than Patriot and uses different radar.

They developed this with Raytheon in order to replace their I-HAWK SAM systems. It'll probably sell very well internationally with nations that can afford this and don't need the Russian S-300 system (Patriotski).

There are USS agents posted on rooftops near the Capitol and the White House with Stingers, but the desire to down an airplane at a decent distance from the capitol rather than downtown prompted the deployment of longer ranged aircraft.

Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 14):
Though our monuments are symbols of our nation's pride and glory we should only shoot down aircraft that are an imminent danger to more lives than the plane can theoretically carry.

The odds of downing a Cessna are pretty low, as aircraft are generally intercepted by fighters prior to coming under fire. The SAMs are probably intended for inbound non-responsive fast movers. That said, the possibility of a small airplane carrying some chemical or nerve agent that would kill more people than its small size would make it seem possible. There is no thrill in the idea of shooting down an airplane, and less in the possibility that one will cause death and mayhem far out of proportion to its size.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineLY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8075 times:

Um, "Patriotski"? What's that all about DL021?


LY744.



Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
User currently offlineBobster2 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8027 times:

The U.S. military has never accidentally shot down an innocent civilian airliner. Except for that one time they accidentally shot down an innocent civilian airliner. So I wouldn't worry about it.

User currently offlineDoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3402 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8020 times:

Russian equivelant of the Patriot


When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineAAFLT1871 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2333 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8000 times:

Quoting Qxq400 (Reply 12):
YAHOO!!, How would you like to be on that F9 plane a year or so back when they "accidentally" violated the airspace around the Whitehouse

It happens more than you think. To avoid bird strikes, planes have banked to the right instead of the left and penetrated the P56 no fly zone. Every major at DCA has done it a time or two.


http://www.faa.gov/ats/dca/dcaweb/p56.htm



Where did everybody go?
User currently offlineNRTfan From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7929 times:

I am a reporter in Potomac, Maryland where the Naval Surface Warfare Center, Carderock Division (location of the missiles in the pic) are located.

I've done a couple of stories on the place. The first one is about the misslie launcher turning up. Unfortunatley, I couldn't get much more from the Navy people than anyone else. The official line is "hey, its your damn homeland security so you better like it."

Of course not everyone feels safer having live explosives in their neighborhood, as many letters we recieved attested.

The other story is about the cleanup of contaminated sites at the base.

As I think others have pointed out in this thread, its a Norwegian-developed NAMSAS missile launcher, part of ongoing NORAD air defenses. Others launchers can be seen near the Penatagon, and for some time after Sept. 11 near the Capitol. But as far as I know this is the only one of that type in the area.

http://www.potomacalmanac.com/articl...rue&article=42211&paper=70&cat=104

http://www.potomacalmanac.com/articl...asp?article=47034&paper=70&cat=104


User currently offlineThucydides From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 95 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7677 times:

Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 14):
Killing people to protect monuments or buildings is not proper at all.

First of all, how do you know which building or monument is targeted? By your logic even if protective measures had been in place, the authorities should have let the plane that hit the Pentagon go, because it could have just as easily been targeting the Washington Monument, and heck maybe the fire code only allows 50 people in there at one time...

Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 14):
nd debris rain down upon one of those poor communities within the periphery of the government district of DC.

As for "poor" communities, and I am not sure if you are implying that DC is surrounded by economically disadvantaged people or that you are referring to those people as unlucky. Either way, I think that you are way off base and if this is what you are implying, you have never been to DC.

As for the poor soul who has aircraft parts fall upon their house, I say yes, any loss of life from an act of terrorism is tragic. However, you seem to imply that this loss would be more tragic than the 1,000 tourists that could be killed if it hit the Jefferson during the spring or summer or the hundreds of White House staff and tens of thousands of business people who work within a couple of blocks of the White House, or the mixture of our elected representatives, their staff, and the thousands of tourists who visit the Capitol every day.

As someone who was in DC on 9/11, saw the smoke from the Pentagon, had a clear view of the evacuation of the White House, had a three mile walk home, and then had to wonder if I had lost friends at the Pentagon or up in the twin towers, I find your opinions on this matter a bit uninformed.


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