Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
757 With Winglets = Rocketship  
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9664 posts, RR: 68
Posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9037 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Check out this picture taken yesterday of the first 757 with winglets doing a max pro takeoff.



[Edited 2005-03-10 20:24:55]

41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8999 times:

Gorgeous! Love the 757, its such a rocket on take-off

User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3247 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8987 times:

For convenience:



This is one Hell of a take off!!!

Tony

PS ClickHappy, sorry, I thought you were going to leave it in its original size!!!

[Edited 2005-03-10 20:26:56]


Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlineOO-VEG From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 1125 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8980 times:

Sure it aint the TU-214? Big grin

Too bad the nose isn't on the picture, but hmm this doesn't really look smashing.


User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8971 times:

Cool pic....was it taken at BFI?

User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9664 posts, RR: 68
Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8954 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Thanks Tony, OO-VEG it is, when i linked to the photo it was fine in "Preview" but once the topic was live it looked jacked up.

Note: this is not my picture, it belongs to airframes.net and was posted with permission.


User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3247 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8935 times:



Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 5):
when i linked to the photo it was fine in "Preview"

Yeah, I noticed that. That's why I always use the width=... option.

Thanks for posting it!

Tony



Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8366 posts, RR: 23
Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8912 times:

The 757 is a rocket ship without winglets. With 'em you could put that thing into orbit!


This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineBluewave 707 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3152 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 8777 times:

That's an "E-Ticket"* ride!

Referring to the old ride tickets @ Disneyland



"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
User currently offlineDeltaMD11 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 1701 posts, RR: 34
Reply 9, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 8646 times:



Quoting N766UA (Reply 7):
The 757 is a rocket ship without winglets. With 'em you could put that thing into orbit!

Might I ask how so? The winglets do not offer any power/thrust advantage to the aircraft. Granted drag is decreased but that is only realized at higher speeds during cruise.



Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26795 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8524 times:



Quoting DeltaMD11 (Reply 9):
Might I ask how so? The winglets do not offer any power/thrust advantage to the aircraft. Granted drag is decreased but that is only realized at higher speeds during cruise.

Winglets also improve lift, that is one of the main reasons they have been popular on the 737



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8512 times:

This one was a rocket because it was empty.

Still, a great pic.

N


User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9664 posts, RR: 68
Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8505 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

From the AviationPartnersBoeing website:

IMPROVED TAKEOFF PERFORMANCE

By allowing a steeper climb, winglets pay off in better take-off performance...


Thats how, DeltaMD11.


User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8492 times:

Quoting DeltaMD11 (Reply 9):
Granted drag is decreased but that is only realized at higher speeds during cruise.

Don't listen to pilots dude, they only know how to fly it and not how it flys.  Wink Big grin

Induced drag is highest with flaps engaged, ususally take off and landing. Reducing that effect result in a higher L/D ratio and higher take off angle. You've seen pictures of th X-29 forward-swept wing concept from the 1980's? Its wings kill off any wingtip flow, in fact the drag is 29% less due to the wing arraingment -- thus massive L/D ratio.

The picture clearly shows a 30-degree climb angle, which translates to a half-gravity acceleration!  Wow!

[Edited 2005-03-10 22:11:02]


The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8447 times:

Contrast that with the 321 which struggles to become airbourne! That thing is like riding on the 'horsie carousel' while the the 757 is like taking off in a rocket!

User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3515 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8431 times:

Who cares? They are not going to do it with passengers anyway.

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26795 posts, RR: 75
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8410 times:



Quoting Gigneil (Reply 11):
This one was a rocket because it was empty.

They rocket off when full, but that is just a stupid angle.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineDeltaMD11 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 1701 posts, RR: 34
Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8407 times:

Yes but the aircraft pictured above is not climbing like that because the winglets have been added, its a simple low weight high performance takeoff which can be done just like that in any 757 winglets or not. I'm not saying that the winglets do not provide ANY performance advantages to the aircraft, but some of the comments on this thread would lead one to believe that this aircraft is pitched up like that due to the addition of the winglets which is not true.

Edit: Oh I forgot, on what Lehpron was saying: "Induced drag is highest with flaps engaged, ususally take off and landing. Reducing that effect result in a higher L/D ratio and higher take off angle."

I realize this as well but again the true decrease in drag is only during cruise at altitude and speed. The amount of drag that the winglets reduce over the regular wingtip of a 757 in comparison with the amount of drag created by flap extension during takeoff still would not account for that much of an increase in climb angle. If anything, you're looking more at lift benefits during takeoff than power which makes such a high AOA possible. Arguably if you have a very large high-lift wing compared to a small lower-lift wing you're going to need to pitch up higher on the lower lift wing to achieve the same rate of climb as you would with a larger higher-lift wing.

[Edited 2005-03-10 22:35:37]


Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8366 posts, RR: 23
Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8387 times:

Quoting DeltaMD11 (Reply 9):
Might I ask how so? The winglets do not offer any power/thrust advantage to the aircraft.

I know, I'm just joking obviously. The 757 is a rocket as it is and, from the looks of the photo, that little bit extra lift off those winglets sure doesn't hurt climb performance!

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 13):
Don't listen to pilots dude, they only know how to fly it and not how it flys

And so long as it does fly, I don't care to know.  Big grin

[Edited 2005-03-10 22:27:49]


This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13529 posts, RR: 100
Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 8189 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Danny (Reply 15):
Who cares? They are not going to do it with passengers anyway.

Wanna bet? Ever fly out of SNA?  bouncy   Smile Seriously, with SNA being slot (noise) limited, I wonder if with the winglets if CO could replace the non-stop 737 on SNA-EWR with the 757? I'd fly that rollercoaster! (And yes, I know the 752's are planned for trans-Atlantic... I can hope!)

Note: All I know is that with the reduced induced drag on the 737 the takeoff length was reduced a few hundred feet due to a fractionally reduced takeoff speed (minor) and mostly due to improved engine out climb performance. To restate, most of the reduction in required takeoff runway length for the 737 is due to climb improvements when thrust from one of the engines is lost (recall takeoff lengths must include a little safety margin for reasonable "events."). I would assume with a wingletted 752 the same physics would apply and there would be a reduction in required runway length; probably less as proportionately the winglet size is reduced (same winglets on a larger/heavier airframe).

Has there been any data released on the required takeoff lengths? In particular, is their a change in the "ICAO +27" wet that airlines seem to buy aircraft at. (That always seemed to be the make or break condition to be analyzed...)

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17172 posts, RR: 66
Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8062 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):

They rocket off when full, but that is just a stupid angle.

How is it stupid?



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineAfricawings From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8015 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I'm sorry, but this picture looks doctored to me.

Look at the tail end of the aileron. The pixels are out of alignment suggesting the positioning of the aircraft was altered!


User currently offlineDeltaMD11 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 1701 posts, RR: 34
Reply 22, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7972 times:

Africawings, the picture appears like that because it has been significantly reduced in size. I'm sure it has not been doctered up.


Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3247 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7883 times:

Quoting Africawings (Reply 21):
I'm sorry, but this picture looks doctored to me.

Click on the picture I posted in reply 2 to get the full version.

Tony



Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9664 posts, RR: 68
Reply 24, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7839 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Here is some more info on this takeoff, from a member of the flightcrew:

"Yesterdays takeoff was not maximum performance - we were using max derate. Takeoff weight was 168,000 lbs, and we climbed at a V2 of 132 Knots to 1500 feet, with a deck angle of 33 degrees. It was a GREAT ride."


25 Skibum9 : Kind of reminds me of the Blue Angles 'Fat Albert' taking off with JATO rockets lit up!
26 Post contains images MD11LuxuryLinr : I think he means something along the lines of crazy stupid.. not stupid retarded..
27 Post contains images MD80Nut : Oh yeah, I've flown out of SNA on an AA 757 and let me tell you, that is the only time I felt a plane put me on my back. I don't know what the angle w
28 Post contains images A340600 : Amazing shot Contrast that with the 321 which struggles to become airbourne! You haven't seen many 321's then Sam
29 Post contains images MD11LuxuryLinr : I agree, A346. The 321s can hold their own, as long as they're not doing US transcons..
30 Post contains images ANNOYEDFA : Just to add one thing originally there was a problem that we were told with the 757's and winglets.... They flew just too well! Upon landing they woul
31 LTBEWR : Do the winglets help with high altitude or hot weather takeoffs? I was last on a 757 last August EWR-SEA, with maybe a 50% load, and it took off stron
32 757223 : Awesome pic--thanks for posting. Here's to one of the finest aircraft ever built!
33 ChiGB1973 : You stole my thunder. I have been rocketing out of MDW on 757-200s and -300s for 2 years working for TZ. Full or empty out of MDW it feels like rocket
34 Gkirk : Actually, I would agree with the statement that the A321 struggles a bit.
35 TrnsWrld : Ok to make some of you guys jealous, I flew jumpseat on a TWA 757 that was being ferried from MCO to STL. The plane was empty except for me, two pilot
36 Qwerty : I like winglets for their fuel savings. I like the look of winglets on the 737. But, they just don't look right on the 757.
37 Post contains images TeamREGAL : I can see where you're coming from especially since the 757 so revered as is, but I gotta say the winglets make it look even faster and more athletic
38 Trekster : dont ya just love the 757 hope to be on a BA one at the end of the month to LHR. There take offs at MAN are WOW
39 BEG2IAH : I was almost disappointed in take-off performance of a CO B753. Why almost? Well, this plane is actually pretty long. I expected that it would take a
40 DfwRevolution : The picture is minimized to fit within the frame, expand it to full view and there is zero pixilation.
41 Post contains links Se210 : It looks like the CO "winglet rocket" is doing some test flights between TUS and ELP today (3/12/05). See: http://www.airlinepostcard.com/co_n67134_te
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Continental 757 With Winglets At SJO (02-22-06) posted Thu Feb 23 2006 05:22:35 by LTU932
First Icelandair 757 With Winglets - TF-FIJ posted Wed Dec 21 2005 23:56:26 by Asgeirs
AA 757 With Winglets posted Fri Dec 16 2005 21:22:28 by VSMike
Icelandair 757's With Winglets. posted Sat Nov 26 2005 01:41:34 by SWISSER
CO 757 With Winglets @ SFO 9/24 posted Sun Sep 25 2005 21:27:35 by UA777222
Private 757 With Winglets At Newark posted Fri Aug 19 2005 23:09:25 by STT757
Will I Have A Chance To Fly A CO 757 With Winglets posted Wed Jun 8 2005 05:28:13 by Surrenr
Next Airline To Outfit Their 757 With Winglets? posted Wed Mar 30 2005 12:16:05 by CaptainT38
757 With Winglets = Rocketship posted Thu Mar 10 2005 20:23:11 by Clickhappy
First 757 With Winglets Pictures Uploaded posted Wed Mar 9 2005 22:20:03 by Clickhappy