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AA And The Fully Flat Business Class Seat.  
User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2332 posts, RR: 26
Posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9098 times:

What is the deal with AA and their fully flat seats? I heard that they were looking at some new seats and liked them. The question is, have they found a new seat? And when are they going to start the conversion? Will they be the same amount of seats on the 763? What about the 772?

Maybe good old MAH6546 can help on this one.


"The low fares airline."
85 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirlinerfreak From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9042 times:

Yes they have found the new seat and they will be putting them in when they take out the MRTC, or so I hear. Also the 772 already has a nice enough business class seat, IMHO, and to the best of my knowlege for that matter. But expect to see them in fully by next summer if not ass soon as the end of the 4Q of this year.

User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2332 posts, RR: 26
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8978 times:

Are you kidding airlinefreak? The 777 has the same crappy seats as the 763 in business class. To compete AA needs a fully flat seat in both the 772, and the 763. When it comes to 3-class transcon, I think UA's PM service is pretty nice. I mean they have fully flat seats in first which AA does not have on their 762s. To really compete there needs to be new seats on their planes.


"The low fares airline."
User currently offlineDaron4000 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 712 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8806 times:

What are these seats going to be like, how will they afford them, and what will this mean for UA, their main international competitor?

User currently offlineSkyguy From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 480 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 8769 times:

Apart from just installing fully-flat seats on their international business class routes and widebody aircraft, they need to also upgrade the service on the flight. The F/A's need some major re-training, I fly JFK-NRT on AA in J class frequently and the amenities offered, the attitude of the F/A's (..all of whom look like they should have retired already) and the the general quality of service is below that of what it's peers offer. AA can do better but its management is riddled with complex problems and inertia that its going to be a herculean task for AA to be considered in the same ranks as SQ, BQ, CX, EK for quality of product and service.


"Those who talk, do not know, and those who know, do not talk."
User currently offlineAirgeek12 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 8751 times:

AA definitly has a really bad Business Class product. Competition, such as BA and LH, really out rank them.

User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4000 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8568 times:

Quoting Skyguy (Reply 4):
, the attitude of the F/A's (..all of whom look like they should have retired already) and the the general quality of service is below that of what it's peers offer.

1/3 of my experiences are as you describe. But 2/3 of the time I receive outstanding warm service on American and I prefer that to the Singapore robots.


User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2332 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8568 times:

SKYGUY,

That is a big problem in the U.S. with all airlines. But in all fairness, You can't compare a North American airline with the likes of SQ,CX, and EK. I mean there is no comparison at all. Those airlines are world class!



"The low fares airline."
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8184 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8559 times:

I'm starting to believe that AA will install better business seats when they can buy them used from another airline - at a very good price.

I will admit that one of AA's problems is the number of free upgrades that they have to hand out for their frequent flyers. I would bet that a strong majority of the people in business and first have been moved up after buying the cheapest fare possible. All traditional US airlines face this problem, making the seats up front a lot less profitable than most of the better international airlines.


User currently offlineAA7573E From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 475 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8510 times:

It is not possible to upgrade from coach to first on a three class format in AA. You can only upgrade one class of service.

As an 6 year Platinum member of the advantage program, I can tell you that the free upgrades are becoming a bit more scarce. When you take a look at the price that you can buy first class tickets for on AA.com, it is easy to see why. First class tickets are no longer out of reach for the everyday traveler. Couple that with the savings that all airlines are achieving by more efficiently running the airline, and there is a bit more profitability in the front of the plane than there used to be. If this was not true, United would of never done PS, all the majors would get rid of domestic first, and the LCC model would take over all the majors.

The long and the short of it is AA will upgrade their J class, and likely breathe a bit of fresh air into first class as well. I would expect it to come in conjunction with some new international service (i.e. China and new European offerings) in the very near future.



See you up front!
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8263 times:

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 6):
But 2/3 of the time I receive outstanding warm service on American and I prefer that to the Singapore robots.

As we all know, everyone is entitle to their very own opinion, but AA is crap compared with SQ.


User currently offlineZak From Greenland, joined Sep 2003, 1993 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8193 times:

fully flat seats are way overrated, very similar to ptv's. lufthansa, being one of the biggest and also most profitable airlines still does not have ptvs in economy and their new biz "only" features beds that do not recline to a even, flat surface


10=2
User currently offlineLowsonboy From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2001, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7686 times:

I flew with AA LHR-JFK last week in Y-class, and had the most comfortable trans-Atlantic flight ever by a long way (unless you count NZ). MRTC was refreshing because it is unusual to see an airline care about it's lowest fare-paying pax by providing them enough room.
As for a fully flat business class seat - who really gives a damn? There are probably about 20 pax on the flight who it affects - most of whom aren't paying out of their own pocket anyway. I'd rather see AA charge slightly more for their fares (because, let's face it, GBP 220 for LON-NYC is almost unrealistically cheap) and provide a slightly better service - for example: a "snack box" for breakfast on an overnight flight is simply not enough IMHO.... also, check in at JFK was an embarrassment, and this is from someone that works for a company that services some of the cheapest bucket and spade airlines in the UK.


User currently offlineDaron4000 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 712 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7613 times:

I agree! SQ and Star Alliance Rule

User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2332 posts, RR: 26
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7533 times:

check in at JFK was an embarrassment,

You got that right! But that will all change in april with the new terminal, Thank god!



"The low fares airline."
User currently offlineTundra767 From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2005, 430 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7513 times:

No to the site...But have to say I like the 777 J Class... What I do miss however is the 3 class 763 with the Coffin F seats! I remember flying CDG-SJC when they had it being the only one up there now that was style!

User currently offlineNYCAAer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 692 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7276 times:

AA management has told us that having flat seats in business class is a priority, but that financial problems are slowing the process of replacing them. There will be a reduction of seats in the Business Class cabin of the 767-300, from the current 30 to either 22 or 24, depending on what they decide to do. I havent' heard anything about the 777 yet, but I think the 763s will be upgraded first, due to the lack of a first class cabin.

User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4000 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7256 times:

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 10):
As we all know, everyone is entitle to their very own opinion, but AA is crap compared with SQ.

Your statement says "I" have an opinion, but the other people like you "know". Get over it. Singapore may have better business/first class cabins, but in standard coach I'll take American any day.


User currently offlineFLY2LIM From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1184 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7181 times:

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 10):
As we all know, everyone is entitle to their very own opinion, but AA is crap compared with SQ.



Quoting Incitatus (Reply 17):
Your statement says "I" have an opinion, but the other people like you "know". Get over it. Singapore may have better business/first class cabins, but in standard coach I'll take American any day.

TACAA320:
We have disagreed in the past and we disagree again. I don't know anything about SQ and have nothing to say about them. But as a loyal AA customer, my statistic is that about 95% of the time I get excellent service on both domestic and international. You know, sometimes the problem isn't with the f/a but, rather, with the person they have to deal with. I can imagine the problem gets exacerbated when you are dealing with a pax in J or F class.
As you said, everyone is entitled to their opinion. We know your opinion will always be to bash AA at any cost.
FLY2LIM



Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
User currently offlineQantasclub From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 757 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7142 times:

Don't you love how AA are only now starting to realise that flat business class beds may be a good idea, years after most of the world's international airlines already have them installed as part of their standard J class product? It's just a joke, really. Even if they DID install flat beds, what about everything else that is attached to the term 'service'? This airline over the last few years has systematically dismantled eveything pleasurable about the inflight experience.

AA IS CRAP compared to not only SQ, but just about every other major international carrier in the world.

The battle is over...flat beds or the same AA drugery...AA has lost. And their 'profits' will confirm this.



Long Haul is the only way to go
User currently offlineTPAC From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 40 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7088 times:

Yes AA Business Class seats are pure crAAp. For whatever reason, AA was way behind the 8 ball on the lie flat product. I think most airlines now have a better product than AA does today.

User currently offlineTbear815 From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 704 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7066 times:

If anyone has complaints, particularly for service and mileage programs, ask AA management. They started the whole mileage bit so the rest of the world is now getting the brunt of their stupidity. AA "was" a good airline; they just had greedy and poor management (EA, PA, PI, PS, OC and others fall into this category).

My two cents.

Tbear


User currently offlineAeronuts From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 7033 times:

AA Business Class is not bad, they're just not as good as others.

User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 7008 times:

All the international flying I've done on AA (100+ segments) in J and F class has been pretty good. I wouldn't know any different, as I have yet to go to Europe on another carrier, and I was on codeshare QF flights to Australia both times. I've have to admit, the lay-flat seats I've had the pleasure of riding shotgun in for 8+ hrs haven't exactly been that great. I don't even expect this to add a great amount of profit to AA when they do switch it out. Perhaps the business traveller making a flight on the 763 to Europe will enjoy it more, but for me, it's not a priority.

Bring on the 787 AA!  bouncy 

Regards.


User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2332 posts, RR: 26
Reply 24, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 6954 times:

Quoting Qantasclub (Reply 19):
Don't you love how AA are only now starting to realize that flat business class beds may be a good idea,

Oh they realized it a longtime ago, they just watched everyone else to see how it works like they always do.  Silly

Quoting Qantasclub (Reply 19):
AA IS CRAP

Because In your eyes Qantasclub, AA is not good enough because they don't serve the crappy dried up salmon that QF serves on a 40 minute flight. And my friend I will give you that AA can't compare to Asian airlines, but don't exaggerate that it is the worst possible airline in the world, because IB,EI, and AC to name a few hold that title. You obviously have not been on any of those airlines.



"The low fares airline."
25 Post contains images Paul : I fly on UA in Business Every year and think that their seats on the 777 are great. I think the way to combat the problem of trying to have a flatter
26 AA787 : I had heard that these seats will look like the LH ne J class seats. Can anyone confirm this or refute it. Pictures of what the seats will look like w
27 Starlionblue : Not on international flights. Biz and First are the moneymakers, so AA does give a damn.
28 LHSTR : Seats like the LH seat are becoming the standard. Yesterday, I have been to the ITB, a huge tourism fair in Berlin, and saw a lot of airlines represe
29 Qantasclub : AA767400: Quoting Qantasclub (Reply 19): Don't you love how AA are only now starting to realize that flat business class beds may be a good idea, Oh t
30 Qqflyboy : AA has designed the seat they want in business class and have actually tested it with several plats at a special invite in Dallas. This was several mo
31 Paul : Offering a Superior Business Class Product will have serious consequences on UA. Will they follow suit and implement a bed on international routes (li
32 Fbgdavidson : I give a damn! I fly international business and like to see competitors up the standard the airline I fly is forced to make its J and F class better.
33 Starlionblue : Lol. Well you can be sure AA doesn't give a damn if the pax pays out of his own pocket or not.
34 AA787 : Does anyone know if they will put these new seats on their transcon flights? I think it is needed considering UA's new Premium Service. AA787
35 QQflyboy : I don't think AA will add these new seats to their three class domestic aircraft. If they do, they'd probably go in first class. The business class ca
36 UnitedStarGold : Sure they do. If fbgdavidson is paying out of his own pocket, he might well be paying full fare. If someone else is paying the bill, i.e. a corporati
37 UnitedStarGold : I fully agree. However, given that the current C-class seats on UA often have problems with the footrest not coming up or not staying up, I imagine t
38 MIASkies : Although I see your point(s) with AA needing to be up to par w/ the rest of the "World Class" airlines, in my opinion the Business Class seats they ha
39 AA7573E : The funniest part of this entire thread is that AA777jr wants us to believe he has flown 100+ international segments in any class, much less J or F.
40 Starlionblue : What's so funny about this? I have probably flown 200+ international segments in Monkey class...
41 AA787 : UnitedStarGold- AA has fully flat seats in first on it's main 3 class aircraft, the 777. On the 762 I was referring to the first class when I was aski
42 AA767400 : you're kidding right? Oh come on, Everyone knows that AA likes to see what everyone else is doing first. Just like when they start a route and leave
43 AA787 : Don't worry about Qantasclub all he does is bash AA. I don't understand, if you don't like an airline, don't make enemies and just not reply to the th
44 LMP737 : Really? So I take it by that statement AA is SOLELY responsible for dismantling everything pleasurable about the in flight experience? You might want
45 Daron4000 : Does anyone know how this will affect UA?
46 OzGlobal : Just out of curiosity, a question to American business travellers: If your company's travel policy will send you business class international long hau
47 Qqflyboy : OzGlobabl... likely it's two things that keep business traveller's at AA. 1) Contracts. It is likely the company has a specific travel arrangement dir
48 Incitatus : Look at the business class of other US carriers. Except NW that revamped the cabin recently, most are very similar to AA's. Ever been on United FIRST
49 Qantasclub : LMP737: Really? So I take it by that statement AA is SOLELY responsible for dismantling everything pleasurable about the in flight experience? You mig
50 Shawnnyc : As other's have pointed out, contracts. My company has a contract with AA and our travel department basically forces you to fly AA (especially intern
51 Xkorpyoh : Correct!!.. AA keeps feeling those long-haul business class seats with contracts. Huge discounts that other airlines can hardly match. Most of the tr
52 NYCAAer : Many AA F/As will refuse to help passengers stow their carry-ons because if they are injured doing it, the company will fight them if they pursue work
53 Post contains images ExFATboy : Very true...I actually prefer the AA seats to the BA Club World seats. The BA seat is too narrow for me to lie flat, and not padded well enough for m
54 QQflyboy : Ah, the age old, "flight attendant wouldn't stow a bag," complaint. It's not uncommon on any US airline to be denied help with carry-on bags. I say US
55 Incitatus : I find this statement questionable. Flight attendants are supposed to be fit to handle an emergency, including lifting a heavy door if necessary. If
56 NYCAAer : Opening an emergency exit is easier than lifting some of the bags I've seen. A window exit on the 767 weighs 55 lbs., and you use your shoulder for su
57 QQflyboy : Incitatus... I use the word "fit" because it is what the FAA and DOT use to define the airworthiness of a crew member. If a pilot or flight attendant
58 LMP737 : So now there "one of the leaders". Do you have anything to back this up other than your word. If memory serves me correctly it was not so long ago th
59 OzGlobal : It is a bit firm, which I don't mind, but "too narrow for (you) to lie flat"? Can you elaborate?
60 Lear35pilot : I have not had the luxury of flying AA 763's or 777's, but I can tell you the business class seat in their 762's is horrible in comparison to other No
61 Qantasclub : LMP737: re:If memory serves me correctly it was not so long ago that AA took seats out of coach in order to make it more comfortable for the pax. Only
62 Incitatus : Bash AA is fine to me. But say Southwest has superior service is one real stretch of imagination.
63 Incitatus : I don't agree. Flight attendants are supposed to be able to open main doors even if the fuselage is tilted to the side. Small and frail people are no
64 LMP737 : Qantasclub: What service on Jetblue and Southwest do you speak of? I know it can't be full meal service or first class seating. Do they have bigger sm
65 OzGlobal : i) Please outline regulatory environments for Asia Pacific carriers. ii) "Don't have to deal with the proliferation of LCC's": in the last few years
66 Qantasclub : LMP737: You are just plain wrong. Your point that the US consumer won't pay for these perks is correct, at the prices that AA and other majors deliver
67 LMP737 : Qantasclub: I have forgotten more about the US airline industry than you will ever know. Does either Jetblue or Southwest offer full meal service, fir
68 LMP737 : OzGlobal: The airline industry in Asia is under strict bilateral air service agreements. If you don't belive me then you can reserach it. Things are s
69 Post contains images AA767400 : You have not been on a full A300 to the Caribbean? When the kitchen sink is brought on and expected to be put up above. This is the airlines fault fo
70 Qantasclub : LMP737: You made my point exaclty, these LCCs compete with the big guns, even if they are their parent companies. ie: even Qantas admits that there is
71 Qqflyboy : Neither jetBlue nor Southwest serve or sell meals on their flights. They are offered for sale on AA for either $3, $5 or $8. As for flight attendants
72 Xkorpyoh : I am sorry that i made that comment about the carry-on bag. It was just an example of the lack of attentive service in business class on AA. i agree t
73 Qantasclub : Sorry, Qqflyboy, my mistake..I thought they did sell meals. The point remains though, that if they don't, then what is the difference between AA and a
74 Iberia340600 : You might want to rephrase your quote and add the other oneworld alliance members to it. Seems Qantasclub likes to bash every airline in it while put
75 Speedbird2155 : Yes, helping an elderly passenger is fine, but if the bag is too heavy then F/As shouldn't be forced to try lifting it. It shouldn't matter what clas
76 Qantasclub : No, just AA and Iberia. both deserved to be bashed. BA and CX are fantastic. Trouble is, there isn't a decent north american major that has a large e
77 UAL777 : Wow the animosity is stifiling in here. I will just say this: I loathe (with a captial L) flying on WN. Everything to the cheap secondary airports, to
78 Post contains images Starlionblue : Exactly right. It states clearly in the conditions of carriage how heavy your carry-on may be. I have no problem with people who have heavier carry-o
79 Post contains images ExFATboy : I have fairly broad shoulders. I have to either prop a shoulder up on the armrest, which isn't very comfy, or lie on my side - which is where the who
80 Flightopsguy : Interesting discussion. Just a couple of personal observations: We've flown both AF and EI internationally recently, and neither flight came close to
81 Planefreakaa : Lets face the real issue, aa needs to upgrade their business class seats, not only to compete with the world leaders in business class travel, but the
82 Planefreakaa : Lets face the real issue, aa needs to upgrade their business class seats, not only to compete with the world leaders in business class travel, but the
83 Post contains links LMP737 : Southwest serves meals? Well according to SWA's website they do not. Have you actually ever flown SWA or are you making that up. http://www.southwest
84 Qantasclub : I flew Southwest a couple of times last year and for some reason, remembered wrongly about whether they serve meals..I realise they don't. Many LCCs d
85 Aacun : As far as I know and the latest Ive heard is that were getting the same Business class seats that Singapore Airlines has in Business Class. I saw a pi
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