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Ban LeBlanc From The Airline Industry!  
User currently offlineA332 From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 1644 posts, RR: 2
Posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6512 times:

After yet another airline is driven into the ground by the likes of the crooked Michel LeBlanc, let's hope he gets the "Frank Lorenzo treatment" and is banned from ever starting up and operating an airline again!


Bad spellers of the world... UNTIE!
53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRamerinianair From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6464 times:

Looks like he will join the list of but not as well known as,
Carl Ichon, Frank Lorenzo . . . etc.
What's the big story here, I assume that he was behind JetsGo - your from Canada.
Thanks,
SR



W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13195 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6432 times:

As I noted in the 'Jetsgo Ceases operations' thread, I hope there is an investigation to see if this LeBlanc and his fellow Jetsgo executives commited fraud, other business crimes or operations violations at Jetsgo and have him/them face criminal charges, like we have done in the USA vs. Enron and other companies.

User currently offlineYeggerman From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6225 times:

It would be great to see Transport Canada and/or the Canadian govt. get involved with an investigation into ML.

I mean really, how many airlines // employees // and people does he have to hurt in some form or another before anyone does anything.



"All great things must come to an end"
User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 6060 times:

If there are grounds for an investigation, then I agree something should be done. Otherwise let's face it, it's a tough business to make money in!

I think it's horrible timing to shut down at the beginning of March Break, one of the busiest flying times in the year. But in an article I read, Jetsgo also puts a lot of the blame on Westjet, so if they have all these beefs with Westjet, why didn't they sue? It seems to me that within the airline industry, there is a lot of childish name calling, and pointing fingers, and it's rarely if ever proven in court or elsewhere. The same could be said of Leblanc, perhaps he isn't as crooked at some might suggest? I don't know.



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16365 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5992 times:

Leblanc cannot and should not be banned. He has done nothing illegal. Bankruptcy is not a crime.

The most you can do to him is organize a boycott against any future airlines run by him.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5928 times:

LeBlanc may be at fault with Jetsgo but Royal Airlines did quite well before selling to Canada 3000. 7 years is quite an accomplishment for a discount carrier.


The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineEnviroTO From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 829 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5908 times:

Anyone can run an airline into bankruptcy. AC, UA, US, TW, etc all went bankrupt. What we need to do is put mechanisms in place to protect consumers as a higher level creditor. Basically the consumer should get a refund for services and goods purchased but not received after a bankruptcy before the other creditors which have either known the risk of their investment or have been making money in the past with the company.

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16365 posts, RR: 56
Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5868 times:

What you have to remember is that FAR MORE Canadians have been hurt by Robert Milton than Michel Leblanc. Over 40k Canadians owned stock in the old AC which was wiped out due to Milton's incompetence. Over 10k AC/CP employees lost their jobs due to Milton's incompetence. Hundreds of Cdn companies had credit wiped out and unpaid debt with AC due to AC's bankruptcy, again caused by Milton's incompetence.

The number of Cdns adversely affected by Leblanc is far fewer than Milton.

If anyone should be "banned", it should be Milton.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineATCRick From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 772 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5848 times:

Lets see,

Lorenzo
Icahn
Peretti
Milton
Leblanc

Not a list that I want to see continue to grow.



natch!!
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26785 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5827 times:

Quoting ATCRick (Reply 9):
Lorenzo
Icahn
Peretti
Milton
Leblanc

Not a list that I want to see continue to grow.

One should add Wolf and possibly Carty to that



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineYeggerman From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5821 times:

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 5):
Leblanc cannot and should not be banned. He has done nothing illegal. Bankruptcy is not a crime.

No Bankruptcy is not a crime, but if they can prove he willing knew he was going under (which im pretty sure he knew) and yet still took people's money who were booking last minute as in a couple hours before they shut down without warning that is fraud, and this is most certainly a crime.



"All great things must come to an end"
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16365 posts, RR: 56
Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5807 times:

Well ATCRick, luckily 4 of those 5 are now out of the industry. We just need to oust Milton, and ship him back to his upper class Georgia neighbourhood.

Had Milton been born to a poor Georgian family (instead of a rich family with connections), perhaps he'd be in a harmless job such as a bus driver, or factory worker. Instead, his wealthy upbringing ensured his incompetence would wreak havoc in some industry. Unfortunately, it was the Cdn airline industry.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineATCRick From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 772 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5750 times:

Yyz717,

Agreed. Well said.



natch!!
User currently offlineYUL332LX From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5723 times:

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 5):
Leblanc cannot and should not be banned. He has done nothing illegal. Bankruptcy is not a crime.

The most you can do to him is organize a boycott against any future airlines run by him.

Absolutely right. People had plenty of other options, and yet, they kept flying with this guy!

Go figure...

[Edited 2005-03-12 22:11:15]


E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
User currently offlineCactus739 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2450 posts, RR: 30
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5709 times:

Who is Peretti?

Never heard of that one...........



You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5700 times:

What I find intriguing in all this is that Jetsgo and Canada 3000 both went under in similar circumstances. Both went under just as they entered bankruptcy protection. Makes me wonder if they were forced to shut down as opposed to being able to go through a proper restructuring a la Air Canada.


"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16365 posts, RR: 56
Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5681 times:

Just a coincidence Nuno. Leblanc has one month (until April 11) to try and negotiate a new credit agreement with existing suppliers. If they agree, he could restart. If it looks hopeless, he can't. If he can make a case that a smaller Jetsgo (with say just the M80's) can be profitable, he could be flying again. If the losses are so overwhelming that no new business case makes sense, it could wrap up very quickly.

The cessation of service is extreme but it is one way of grinding expenses to a halt (as well as revenue of course). Since SG was losing money daily, it made sense to stop services completely.

SG still has a chance to re-organize and restart ops, but it will require considerable creditor agreement. If they insist on ownership, MLB may not agree and the whole thing collapses.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineATCRick From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 772 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5658 times:

Cactus,

Hap Peretti was in charge of Presidential Airlines back in the 80's. He left the company in ruins, and when folks turned to their 401k funds to survive, they found that they didn't have any 401k funds. That was one of the reasons that companies no longer manage their own 401k accounts. So he ruined the company and stole the employees savings. Later, he ran Leisure Air (the US version) and it wasnt long before paychecks started bouncing and the doors were locked. I rate him right up there with Icahn and Lorenzo.



natch!!
User currently offlineAC7E7 From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 666 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5639 times:

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 8):
What you have to remember is that FAR / KFAR), USA - North Dakota">FAR MORE Canadians have been hurt by Robert Milton than Michel Leblanc. Over 40k Canadians owned stock in the old AC which was wiped out due to Milton's incompetence. Over 10k AC/CP employees lost their jobs due to Milton's incompetence. Hundreds of Cdn companies had credit wiped out and unpaid debt with AC due to AC's bankruptcy, again caused by Milton's incompetence.

The number of Cdns adversely affected by Leblanc is far fewer than Milton.

If anyone should be "banned", it should be Milton.

Get over it, it's getting old. By the way, great article in the National Post today suggesting it is now time for Clive Beddoe to leave Westjet. It said that even though Jetsgo's business model was not financially viable, it did make a dent in Westjet's finances, and proved that Westjet was not as strong as it once was. Anyway, check it out if you can.

I do agree though, it is a tough business, and unless there are serious violations of Transport Canada maintenance regulations that came directly from the top, you cannot ban him from starting another business. He is a smart guy who knows the airline industry. I doubt this will be the last time we will see Michel LeBlanc.

[Edited 2005-03-12 23:21:42]

User currently offlineLnglive1011yyz From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 1608 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5632 times:

Quoting YUL332LX (Reply 14):
Absolutely right. People had plenty of other options, and yet, they kept flying with this guy!

Go figure...

While I agree with you YUL332, one thing needs to be said -- general public, people who cannot really afford to fly anywhere, are going to fly on Jetsgo, because they don't KNOW the stuff we know. Even though it's common sense that a company cannot be flying planes for 1$ per person, the common person who has NO idea of the way airlines run, would have NO idea.

You cannot blame the general public for this. Although, stupidity is not a defence haha.

1011yyz



Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
User currently offlineYUL332LX From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5554 times:

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 20):
While I agree with you YUL332, one thing needs to be said -- general public, people who cannot really afford to fly anywhere, are going to fly on Jetsgo, because they don't KNOW the stuff we know. Even though it's common sense that a company cannot be flying planes for 1$ per person, the common person who has NO idea of the way airlines run, would have NO idea.

You cannot blame the general public for this. Although, stupidity is not a defence haha.

LOL. I agree.

The temptation can be impossible to resist to at some point, especially for the general public.

However, when there are flights like YYZ-LAX at $20, I guess it should be a serious warning to any potential customer. That being said, if (when?) ML starts another venture, I’m sure there will be plenty of pax ready to jump in with him again anyways if the price is ''right''…



E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
User currently offlineLnglive1011yyz From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 1608 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5510 times:

Quoting YUL332LX (Reply 21):
However, when there are flights like YYZ-LAX at $20, I guess it should be a serious warning to any potential customer. That being said, if (when?) ML starts another venture, I’m sure there will be plenty of pax ready to jump in with him again anyways if the price is ''right''…

It just amazed me that SO many people I knew, were taking these super super cheap flights, without even ASKING the most obvious questions -- Is it safe? How can they afford to fill the plane with fuel for my 1$ fare?

It goes to show you, that Westjet was having trouble competing with Jetsgo, so they lowered their fares, which, as we all know, in turn helped generate the worst year they've had in many. The only thing that tells me, is that Jetsgo's model of "lets fill our planes with people, no matter what, profitability or not" doesn't work.

Westjet should have just kept at the pace they were at, reduced capacity if customers were jumping to Jetsgo, and let them fold like they did, then they wouldn't have had that bad year. Guess it's easier said then done though.

1011yyz



Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
User currently offlineRobsawatsky From Canada, joined Dec 2003, 597 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5421 times:

A couple of clarifications:

1. Jetsgo is suing Westjet, for $50M I believe. They may have some grounds for claims of corporate espionage but Jetsgo tried to gain marketshare by recently expanding into the two most intensely competitive route groupings in Canada and offering fares below cost. That the smallest fish tried to win a competive battle on loss-leader fares is suicide.

2. Those $1, $20, $0.01 fares weren't what they seemed, they were always paired with a mandatory return at "regular low fares". Still money losers though, apparently.

3. Both Jetsgo and C3000 ceased all operations and then headed to court for bankruptcy protection, they didn't file first and then subsequently cease operations. Unlike AC, that still had cash to continue operations, a big leasing company willing to front them credit rather than have to take back a whole whack of planes, and a valuable route structure, Jetsgo and C3000 were apparently in no position to continue operations. The fact that Jetsgo almost lost aircraft to a seizure by NavCanada for unpaid fees 5 days ago underscores that reality. C3000 and Jetsgo didn't and won't likely successfully restructure because new investment just won't be available. And, after ceasing operations, passengers won't be yearning to fly on any resurrected Jetsgo.

The financial picture known now shows that Jetsgo took in the fares for the heaviest booking period with two choices: operate the flights and knowingly lose even more money for the investors and creditors; or cease operations preserving what little cash and assets remain while screwing the passengers. Since the loyalty of the exec's is to the investors, the latter was chosen. Since Leblanc is 90% owner, he has little moral ground to stand on when claiming to protect investors although it may give the creditors some marginal cents/dollar payment when all is said and done.


User currently offlineGoose From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 1840 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5165 times:

Quoting Captaingomes (Reply 4):
But in an article I read, Jetsgo also puts a lot of the blame on Westjet, so if they have all these beefs with Westjet, why didn't they sue?

They have; there was a lawsuit for a few $M filed a few months ago. It was based off a report that WestJet had obtained JetsGo load factor info and was using it to their advantage - the document was apparently filed in evidence when Air Canada put forward their own lawsuit.

The JetsGo lawsuit will probably fall into obscurity, now.... I believe it's up to JetsGo's creditors whether they persue it further or not....



"Talk to me, Goose..."
25 Goose : WestJet's 2004 year wasn't that bad - I think it was a $9M loss overall. Compared to Air Canada's last few years of losses, that's pocket change. The
26 AirbusCanada : Last night, CTV did a piece on LeBlanc. He was driving a S class Benz and parked it beside the BMW M5 SUV in his garage. The piece did not show the ho
27 WJA737 : What a crook. For all the employees good luck.
28 Captaingomes : AirbusCanada and WJA737, I will not stand here and defend Leblanc. He's made some bad moves, and not only that, ones that raise suspicion of being a b
29 Yyz717 : Beddoe is arguably Canada's most successful airline entrepreneur/CEO in history. If anything, he should be cloned. Canada has 2 failed airline CEO's:
30 Canadi>nBoy : Hmmm, speaking of Robert Milton, I just last night finished his book "Straight From The Top - The Truth About Air Canada". My God, if one is to absolu
31 Post contains images AC7E7 : Who cares what kind of car he drives, and the size of his house. Stick to the issues at hand. His airline went bankrupt. I'm sorry for the employees,
32 Canadi>nBoy : True. Even in Western Canada, where CP enjoyed a very loyal client base (for those not familiar, Canadi>n was very much embraced by Westerner's as "t
33 Post contains links Yyz717 : Attached is an editorial in today's National Post. It states that Leblanc was a benefit to Canada and the airline industry since he created jobs, econ
34 Robsawatsky : Hey, there is no doubt Jetsgo provided a practical alternative airline for many passengers, while it was operating. Even stating that Leblanc generate
35 Canadi>nBoy : For every point mentioned about Mr. Leblanc and Jetsgo in that National Post article, there is a counterpoint. Very biased (too biased, as the writer
36 AlekToronto : Just watching all the hoopla on TV makes me want to barf..why do Canadians just love to be victims? Nothing but finger pointing and such. Listen - YOU
37 Swissy : Hi YYZ717 you sound very bitter towards AC and maybe we should not include CP in that topic since if I recall it right AC was doing just fine before t
38 Yyz717 : Hi YYZ717 you sound very bitter towards AC and maybe we should not include CP in that topic since if I recall it right AC was doing just fine before t
39 Captaingomes : Swissy, should MLB be banned from going into business again because he had two companies go bankrupt? (Royal didn't go bankrupt, and his involvement i
40 Post contains images Olympus69 : You have referred to Robert Milton more than once as a 'failed CEO'. What I don't understand is, if this is true, why is he still AC's CEO? Is it tha
41 Airplane : Lets see. L Blanc collected all the money enough to entirely fill all the planes for March break. And just the day before the show started he shuts do
42 1world : I feel the same as most, If MLB planned to shut down after taking in all the March break revenue than he should be held accountable. I wouldn't want t
43 Goose : AC was not doing fine - they were hurting after their protracted "war" with CP in every market. The die was cast - their debts were piling up and the
44 Mozart : A European addition to the list: Erik de Vlieger. Not sure how many people acorss the pond are familiar with this guy, but he ran and ruined the Exel
45 Swissy : With all respect Captaingomes, the way the laws are in Canada there is no reason for running a success full business, if I understand your reply right
46 Canadi>nBoy : True, but one cannot blame Air Canada, being a corporate entity, for wanting the Canadi>n piece of the pie as opposed to AMR. Greed and envy, perhaps
47 Canadi>nBoy : Really? I don't suppose that Leblanc seriously fudging the Royal books for C3 during buyout talks, the subsequent discovery by C3 that Royal was in f
48 Yyz717 : CP's finances were well-known. It was a given that they were headed for bankruptcy. All AC had to do was wait for CP to go under and then grab the Asi
49 Canadi>nBoy : No, Neil. Collenette and Ottawa made it very clear to AC that they would not be necessarily granted CP's Asian routes if CP died, as they (routes/slo
50 Yyz717 : Realistically, AC was destined to be awarded the Asian routes by the Cdn govt. AC had the global presence, FF program, alliances. Because Milton wante
51 Canadi>nBoy : Neil, I see what you mean, and I do agree with you re AC would have most likely been awarded the Asian and South American routes. However, what I desc
52 Yyz717 : Oh man.....I get angry just hearing about that book. John, I know you have the knowledge of the industry to know when Milton is snowing us. Most peop
53 Post contains images Canadi>nBoy : Hmmm, yeah, considering the fact this book was published in 2004, meant he was working on it during and amidst a very turbulent period at Air Canada.
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