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Airbus And EADS Soar With Jumbo-Sized Profits  
User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1101 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 5314 times:

http://www.money.telegraph.co.uk/mon.../money/2005/03/10/ixfrontcity.html

It looks like Airbus, although I have read here and there on the forum that it sold its planes at a loss, is in fact a real cash machine!

65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12380 posts, RR: 47
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 5299 times:
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A380900, you're absolutely right. Airbus either gives away its planes, or bribes the airlines to buy them. I expect their profit is just an accounting trick!  sarcastic 


Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1101 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 5264 times:

So you think we're in for an "Enron" mishap in Toulouse?  Smile

The problem is that GWB is applying the Enron formula to the entire United States. So with the dollars sinking, Airbus sales and profits are bound for difficulties.

I think they should start selling their planes in euros.


User currently offlineN5176Y From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 5245 times:

Boeing's profits for the last full year were $7.78 billion.

User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 5219 times:

Airbus still has dollar hedges right? Once those contracts end the profits should be impacted. As for selling in Euros, it doesn't do anything besides transfer the currency risk to the customer. The competitiveness of Airbus products won't be enhanced and will become a complicating factor in sales as customers will have to assess the differences in currency risk when evaluating a contract for Airbus's in Euros versus Boeing's in dollars.

As for your Enron BS, the dollar is where it was in the middle of the 90s near the end of the first Clinton term and start of the 2nd term, when US exports were the most competitive. I'm sorry Europe isn't going to get a competitive boost any longer from the Clinton administration's poor currency management after the Asian financial crisis.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1101 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5121 times:

The dollar is losing its status as the only true reserve currency in the world, thanks in part to a loss of confidence in where the US is heading in terms of budget deficits. Broader concerns like military spendings and "mad dog" foreign policy is also an issue for the average international investor.

As the US loses this status, it will hurt, like it or not. It will make you regret voting for Bush. This guy has weakened the USA like nobody before. You'll see the results pretty soon in your neighborhood.

The world is knocking at the door and it is angry.


User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4453 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5114 times:

Thanks for your pointless anti-Bush rant. Concentrate on your countries own ridiculous foreign policys or better yet, your continued slide towards being a 3rd rate power.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1101 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5108 times:

Your barking will not prevent Asian Central Banks from storing euros!

User currently offlineN5176Y From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5096 times:

Perhaps A380900 would like to talk about the fact that France can't keep it budget deficits to within EU rules? The same rules it set up? (Just as an FYI, US budget deficits would be within EU rules) Perhaps you would like to to discuss France's 100%+ national debt as a percentage of its GDP? (Again, that makes us Americans look downright frugal!) Perhaps A380900 would like to discuss France's national work-stoppage today... the reason: too many working hours in 35 hour work weeks. And if you really wanna discuss economics, perhaps we should compare our unemployment rates.

[Edited 2005-03-13 01:14:11]

User currently offlineN5176Y From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5088 times:

Quoting A380900 (Reply 7):
Your barking will not prevent Asian Central Banks from storing euros!

Who cares... what are they gonna do with their dollars? Through them into the market and make them worthless?? That's even BETTER for our exports and even WORSE for euro-priced exports!


User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5080 times:

The dollar is losing its status as the only true reserve currency in the world, thanks in part to a loss of confidence in where the US is heading in terms of budget deficits. Broader concerns like military spendings and "mad dog" foreign policy is also an issue for the average international investor.

As the US loses this status, it will hurt, like it or not. It will make you regret voting for Bush. This guy has weakened the USA like nobody before. You'll see the results pretty soon in your neighborhood."

I told you to stop slacking in Microeconomics 101 and start paying attention on how to calculate export and import growth...jesus christ your statement makes squat sense.  Silly made me laugh though.


User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5059 times:

The problem is not budget deficits. The problem is the trade deficit, which was increasing at an exponential rate during the Clinton's 2nd term, partly due to the rising dollar. The trade deficit finally stabilized during the first year of Bush's first term. The trade deficit has to be dealt with, and part of the solution is letting the dollar go down to the levels it was at in the middle 90s. The other part of the solution would be switching taxation to the consumption side so that domestic production and exports bear less of the tax burden and imports bear more of it. Of course the rest of the world won't like it if this happens because their ability to export their way out of their economic problems will be greatly reduced.


ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3204 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5043 times:

lol,
guys guys guys guys,

Let's keept this on track....we're talking about Airbus products, not US Economics, and certainly not EU economics (is there even such a thing anymore?i cringe when i think there are only 3 countries, all without the euro, that are in decent shape....Don't do it Sweden, don't do it UK, dont do it denmark)

Anyway, that being said, it does seem Airbus should be congratualated. I would imagine a large part of this is off the strength of the A320 program.
Anybody with any more info?


User currently offlineN5176Y From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5043 times:

The US budget deficit and trade deficit is definately a problem... but that's nothing compared to the foreign finanical disaster that would happened if the US actually fixed it.

User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12873 posts, RR: 100
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5039 times:
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Quoting A380900 (Reply 7):
Your barking will not prevent Asian Central Banks from storing euros!

Soon they'll be storing other asian currencies... In 20 years that will be China or India.

On topic: congratulations to a strong profit by Airbus. $2.4 Billion Euros is nothing to sneeze. This is obviously due to the market liking the 320/330/340/and 380. And to think MOST of the profits are from aftermarket parts and such in this industry. Airbus has some good years ahead of it!

Quoting N5176Y (Reply 3):
Boeing's profits for the last full year were $7.78 billion.

But much of it was from aftermarket parts for the civilian side. Long term Boeing needs to keep the planes out there needing the parts; this means selling more new airframes. Oh, they are FAR from exiting the business (737, 777, and 787), but they need to keep up the R&D which is a bit down.

Personally, I like the Embraer's!  Smile Although I would love to see a pw6000 or pw800 powered C-series.  duck  Seriously, maybe its being in the US where everyone seems to want more point to point service. I know that the A380 will have a profitable role between the largest 20 airports in the world; I just know my preference.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1101 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5026 times:

It looks like nobody here grasps what is at stake about the dollar but it's off topic anyway.

I guess it's the reason why it will happen: nobody in the USA can make a fair assessment of the weaknesses and strengths. The dollar being unchallenged is a key aspect of American economic health. Well it is now challenged and Bush has unnecessarily accelerated this challenge big time.

Anyway. I don't really care but the world has something in store for the USA. It will be painful and dollar related.

[Edited 2005-03-13 01:37:11]

User currently offlineYUL332LX From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5025 times:

Quoting N5176Y (Reply 8):
the reason: too many working hours in 35 hour work weeks.

... which gives France the highest productivity in the world. What's your point?



E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
User currently offlineN5176Y From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5010 times:

Quoting YUL332LX (Reply 16):
... which gives France the highest productivity in the world. What's your point?

Which means companies are less likely to hire people. (Kind of what happened here recently.)


User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1101 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5009 times:

French productivity: hiring people is so expensive that low productivity tasks are either not performed or performed by machines.

The high productivity in France really does not mean much as a performance indicator.

Just how off topic can you get?

[Edited 2005-03-13 01:48:56]

User currently offlineOzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2711 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5011 times:

Quoting N5176Y (Reply 8):
Just as an FYI, US budget deficits would be within EU rules) Perhaps you would like to to discuss France's 100%+ national debt as a percentage of its GDP?

Sources, please?



When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
User currently offlineN5176Y From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5009 times:

Quoting A380900 (Reply 18):
French productivity: hiring people is so expensive that low productivity tasks are either not performed or performed by machines.

The high productivity in France really does not mean much as a performance indicator.

Just how off topic can you get?

What he said.


What is EADS market cap and revenue? I can't seem to find it.


User currently offlineContnlEliteCMH From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1455 posts, RR: 44
Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5009 times:

Quoting A380900 (Reply 5):
The dollar is losing its status as the only true reserve currency in the world, thanks in part to a loss of confidence in where the US is heading in terms of budget deficits. Broader concerns like military spendings and "mad dog" foreign policy is also an issue for the average international investor.

As the US loses this status, it will hurt, like it or not. It will make you regret voting for Bush. This guy has weakened the USA like nobody before. You'll see the results pretty soon in your neighborhood.

The world is knocking at the door and it is angry.

Fortunately, some of us have a better understanding of the free market than do you. This Bush voter does not regret voting for Bush, and is probably never going to regret it. Why? Because I don't believe the U.S. President has the kind of power you seem to believe he has. We all got up and went to work when Clinton was in power, just as we do now that Bush is in office. And believe it or not, angry Frenchmen don't change that, either.

The might of the American economy is far, far more than just the value of its currency in international markets. The might of the American economy is far, far more than some set of voodoo impacts you think are going to put us in the can. The might of the American economy is due to productivity: the long, hard hours spent producing (something to which your country seems rather averse, given the state of your labor laws); the ability to get inexpensive capital to take risks in the market; the innovation of people who are motivated to be better today than yesterday; and the incredible freedom our consumers have to buy what we want, when we want to, from whom we choose, without nearly the regulation and taxation you "enjoy."

If you think the might of the French economy is tied so closely to your government, and/or your elected offiials, then the French economy is in far worse condition than it appears to be.

Boeing will be just fine. I suspect that EADS will be, also. Currency fluctuations are normal. And let's take a longer view. Suppose the American dollar never returns to the status it enjoyed in the 20th century. Is it not the historical lot of the dominators to relinquish their dominant position? Methinks France can attest to this.



Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
User currently offlineOzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2711 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5010 times:

Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 21):

A300900's comments are out of line and uncalled-for, but so is your jingoistic response. You can both make your points more credibly if you refrain from slurring a whole nation in the process.



When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
User currently offlineContnlEliteCMH From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1455 posts, RR: 44
Reply 23, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5010 times:

Quoting YUL332LX (Reply 16):
... which gives France the highest productivity in the world. What's your point?

According to whom and what measure?

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=160 says otherwise. Two disclaimers: this data is not for the past 12 months, and this is just one website. However, it shows a comparison of several methods for economic productivity. France comes out ahead in only one; in the others, they are ahead of the UK, but well behind the U.S.

Or, you can go to the World Economic Forum and take a peek. According to this group, based in Europe, France is so far down the list compared to the U.S. that you need a nuclear sub to find them.

http://www.weforum.org/site/knowledg...or.nsf/Content/KB+Country+Profiles

Here's another question for those who seem to think doom is knocking on our door. If the economy is here is just a sham, and our growth is an illusion, and the great and evil Bush is going to bring the world knocking on our door, to tear us down -- why does Airbus want to put a plant in the U.S.? I haven't looked, but I'll bet the majority of Airbus aircraft sales, in dollars, are outside the United States. In other words, they are going to get their revenue regardless of where they build the airplanes. So why put it here, if they can put it in France, or somewhere else where the world is not "knocking on our door?" Why put it here, when supposedly the French worker outstrips us (a dubious assertion.)

The answer, of course, is simple and twofold. It's a pure win-win for EADS. If our French friend is wrong (and he probably is), then the dollar is not going to crash, the world is not going to take us down, and our prosperity is not an illusion. Building a plant here under such an optimistic future means that they can take advantage of the most productive economy in the world, and employ the hardest working men and women in the world. Trained workers who will work more than 35 hours per week, and relationships with suppliers who benefit from the same economy mean higher output for less cost, and higher quality. Second, if our French friend is right, and the eeeeeeeviiiiill Americans, under the spell of that sorcerer Bush, see doom and gloom, then the dollar drops. Unemployment goes up, which drives wages down. So then they get to build their planes for less, and sell them to foreign currencies and make more money by virtue of the weakened dollar at their American plant. Either way, they probably stand to keep their profitability. Ask the Japanese and German automakers.

Of course, any smart individual would prefer the first scenario to the second. Anybody who thinks that a flagging U.S. economy is good for the world has been drinking too much French wine.



Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
User currently offlineContnlEliteCMH From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1455 posts, RR: 44
Reply 24, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5007 times:

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 22):
A300900's comments are out of line and uncalled-for, but so is your jingoistic response. You can both make your points more credibly if you refrain from slurring a whole nation in the process.

If that's slurring, may I suggest you acquire some thicker skin? I know our French friend does not speak for the whole of France, just as you know that I do not speak for the whole of America. But let's call a spade a spade: the French economy is no panacea, and not exactly the shining model of might on the planet. If the French people are content with their economy, then I salute them. They have productive, profitable enterprises (e.g. -- EADS) just as we do. And they do it despite some obvious self-imposed handicaps, like madcap strikes by unionized labor, and labor laws that penalize hard work. This isn't slurring; it's telling the truth.

The difference between me and A380900 is that he bellies up to the point of wishing us ill-will. Oh, the world's got something for us! Mmmm hmmm.

As for being jingoistic -- not really. I believe those things I said, and I know lots of people who do as well. That's why I quit a nice job to start my own company. I wanted to take more risk, take advantage of cheap capital, and improve the productivity of my clients by plying my trade. You can be sure no number of angry Frenchmen will change any of that, except perhaps to make me work harder and innovate even more. Sometimes people just want to make things more complicated than they really are, but economics is a simple matter: freedom + innovation + hard work = profit! It's surely been true for me, and I'm just an average American.



Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
25 A380900 : Overconfident dudes are in for some disappointments. What is happening today in the world economy has no precedents. Hard to see who will benefit. Wha
26 Mariner : Oh, for pete's sake, enough with the kindergarten monetary debates. The world has has other reserve currencies before, notably sterling, and survived
27 Co7772wuh : Not angry ! Jealous ! 4 more years !
28 OzGlobal : i) No thanks, I'll continue, like you, to expect common courtesy. ii) Re-read your posts, listening to the TONE. iii) How does believing what you say
29 Supa7E7 : Since this hasn't been said, I am sorry to France and the EU and others for my monkey-led government. It's not my fault and I am deeply, horribly asha
30 Co7772wuh : It's like this ! A few countries wanted to have a strong currncy in Europe ! Well now , they have it ! However , the Evil ,Stupit Goerge W Bush someho
31 Post contains images AvObserver : Thanks, A380900, for disguising another anti-U.S. rant as an Airbus/EADS congratulatory thread. I'm no Bush fan but if you want to do this sort of thr
32 A380900 : I used to love the US. Yet, like many people around the globe I will not forgive them for slaughtering helpless people. I hoped the US people would sa
33 N5176Y : Is that French philosophy?
34 A380900 : Is that French philosophy? You can call it that. Or common sense.
35 Post contains images Co7772wuh : This guy is off his rocker ! I don't know if we should call Home Land Security or get this guy checked in somewhere ! You have to stop lissening to A
36 A380900 : This guy is off his rocker ! I don't know if we should call Home Land Security or get this guy checked in somewhere ! You have to stop lissening to Al
37 Daedaeg : I doubt if A380900 is really French. He's probably another self-hating American who can't get over the fact that Bush won. Anyway EADS is certainly a
38 Co7772wuh : Yes , I agree . This guy is on something[Edited 2005-03-13 04:34:19]
39 A380900 : The USA is in a dire financial position. The dollar is on the spot. The interest rates are going up. Things could turn sour anytime. The reaction of s
40 Post contains links B2707SST : Sorry to disappoint, but our public debt is smaller than most of the major European economies and about half of Japan's. http://www.cia.gov/cia/public
41 Co7772wuh : Get a life !
42 A380900 : Co7772wuh, Just check a finance website dude. You do think the USA are invulnerable and stuff. There is more to life than laser guided missile. You'll
43 Lufthansa : Hmmm, I am wondering if we are talking about a certain somebody with "November" in their username?
44 Post contains images Co7772wuh : I think you got hit in the head with a laser guided missile ! Please, go see a doctor and get help !
45 A380900 : B2707SST, Thanks for your detailed answer. The problem with US debt is the rate at which it increases. There are open ended commitments like the "war
46 B2707SST : Then what are they going to do with their dollar holdings? As long as American demand is driving their export-based economies, dollars are pouring in
47 A380900 : B2707SST, Then, why is the dollar dropping? More precisely, why is the dollar dropping precisely when the Central Bank of South Korea is saying it wil
48 Sllevin : The dollar has dropped for precisely one reason: US interest rates are extremely low, and it's not attractive to leave cash in dollars when it can ea
49 Lufthansa : You know A380900, in the very article you qouted to start this thread Airbus directors were speaking about how the A380 break even point is going to b
50 Lightsaber : Actually, its been rated as a 20% discount on imported goods. Will a weaker dollar hurt the US? Yes. Crush us and open the borders? No... Personally
51 Atmx2000 : The strong dollar further aggravated the natural structural bias towards imports in the US. The fact that the federal government derives much of its
52 A380900 : Interest rate in the US are higher than in the EU for any maturity. The dollar is falling despite this.
53 Atmx2000 : I think it is more like .25, because if I remember correctly imports are like $1.5 trillion and exports are around $900 billion. Also it should be no
54 Lightsaber : Very true. I live in LA where quite a few of my college friends are involved in the import export business and would be hurt by a decline. As to 0.15
55 Atmx2000 : It will only be painful if the Chinese sharply increase the value of their currency. However, I can't help but wonder if they could tolerate a sharp
56 AJet : To our American friends on this site, I want to tell you I'm not to glad someone like A380900 speaks in the name of France. Though I don't agree with
57 KC135TopBoom : Well, I think A380900 has declaired war on the US. Wow, it's a good thing the rest of France isn't joining him. He also seems to think President Bush
58 Post contains images Bully707 : Strange, why do users have to start p*ssingcontests about politics??? Wasn't the thread about something completely different??? Face it...WE can't ch
59 Post contains images Sebolino : And by the way, 50% of France dislike the 35-hour law. Coming back home every night at 9pm, I really don't understand how some people could feel exhau
60 Co7772wuh : That's Boloney ! US manufacturers only made about 250 million in the Oil-For-Food program ! France made almost 3 Billion in the scandal , more than a
61 A380900 : Sebolino, There is a campaign going on here in the US media about the Oil for food program. The Murdoch Empire is leading the charge. The story line i
62 Lrgt : That is the way they sell, but if it works don't fix it! ...albeit their earnings would most likely be much different (lower!) under US GAAP!
63 Post contains images Co7772wuh : The UN oil for food scandal has also been on CNN quite regularly , as well as many other networks !!! Fox was just 1st in seeing the significance of
64 Gearup : LOT767-300ER, A gentle reminder, some people, in this case, myself, find it offensive when The Lord's Name is used in the manner in which you used it
65 Chgoflyer : A380900 Ive cut a pasted an article for you to search and read.. your profile says your in NY. Why are you in the U.S. ? > EUROPE - THY NAME IS COWARD
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