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Airbus A330 - Why So Successful So Late?  
User currently offlineFlyinTLow From Germany, joined Oct 2004, 521 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8574 times:

Hey everyone!

I was just looking around planemad.net and while i was scanning through the production list of the Airbus A330, I began to wonder:

The A330 is a very successful plane today with lots and lots of orders. NW, LH, EK, US, CX, and the new chinese orders, just to name a few. But what took the plane so long to get successful? As far as I remember, the aircraft's maiden flight was in 1995? But orders didn't seem to really pick up till the late ninties? What took the airline's so long to figure the plane out? Why were they so hesitant at first? Or was there just no demand in the eyes of the airlines for a plane like this?

Any comments appreciated!


- When dreams take flight, follow them -
44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLPLAspotter From Portugal, joined Jan 2005, 682 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8526 times:

Perhaps the "spike" in sales that you are seeing coincide with the introduction of the popular 200 series of the A330

LPLAspotter



Nuke the Gay Wales for Christ
User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5568 posts, RR: 36
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8474 times:

Yes, I think it was the 330-200 that made this airliner popular. At the beginning the -300 was too big (specifically in comparison to the B 763) and had too less range.

User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25442 posts, RR: 49
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8457 times:

I believe part of reason for increased recent A330's success (especially the -200 series) has been the decision by several operators to replace their DC-10, B763 and even A300 fleets.
The A330 has the ability to economically operate both on short regional segments and also intercontinental routes.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3013 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8380 times:

The recent MTOW hike on the -300 didn't hurt either.


Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineM404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2226 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8283 times:
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Could dissatisfaction with the -340 have helped any late decisions?


Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5568 posts, RR: 36
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8257 times:

Quoting M404 (Reply 5):
Could dissatisfaction with the -340 have helped any late decisions?

Who is dissatisfied with the 340?


User currently offlineRyanair!!! From Australia, joined Mar 2002, 4755 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8013 times:

Well, SIA for one - they sure ditched their 343s in a hurry! And the rumours about CX and VS being unhappy about the 346s, I wonder what became of those?


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User currently offlineSpeedbird2155 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 878 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7981 times:

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 7):
And the rumours about CX and VS being unhappy about the 346s, I wonder what became of those?

Not sure about CX, but if VS is unhappy with their A346, it doesn't show since the fleet seems to be getting larger and the FAs seem to love them...at least those I've spoken to.


User currently offlineMusapapaya From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1091 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7966 times:

only CX publicly said that they are not happy with 346, VS, LH and IB seem like them.


Lufthansa Group of Airlines
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8451 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7895 times:

didn't CX get early A346's which had the heavy wing? Perhaps VS, LH and IB are happier since they got lighter ones. Although I do recall hearing something about IB getting ones with heavy wings.

User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6923 posts, RR: 63
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7768 times:

Dissatisfaction with the 346 of course has nothing to do with boosting sales of the A330. I think M404 was thinking of the 343.

User currently offlineMusapapaya From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1091 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7751 times:

PM, seems likely that you are right, but i have to say that both the 346, 343 or 330 are good aircrafts. the 343 is excellent if you dont mind its slow climbing rate.


Lufthansa Group of Airlines
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2956 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7745 times:

Similar to the 757, the A330 took a while for sales to take-off.
The reverse can be said about the A343 as there have been very little activity of late. The higher MTOW of the A333 is one of the factors of eating into the A343 market plus established A343 carriers are satisfied that they no longer need to order more.


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6923 posts, RR: 63
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7710 times:

Quoting Musapapaya (Reply 12):
PM, seems likely that you are right, but i have to say that both the 346, 343 or 330 are good aircrafts. the 343 is excellent if you dont mind its slow climbing rate.

Oh, I wasn't passing judgement on the 343, just trying to clarify what the debate was about.

Something else that occurs to me is the premis in the original thread: "...successful so late?". "So late?" At best the 330 is merely middle-aged in airliner terms and it has so far sold 500 examples. The 767, for example, is a decade or more older and hasn't yet reached 1,000. I suspect that the 787/A350 will quickly bring the A330 story to a premature end but I don't see its sales so far as being problematic. How many DC10/MD11s were sold over 30 years?


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7586 times:

Airlines want to benefit from the growth now. An efficient 250-300 seater with good cargo capasity is instrumental in this. The 787 will be available after 2009, so most have limited options.

User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24936 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7562 times:

I thought it was CX and SAA that were unhappy with their 346s?


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8018 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6896 times:

If Airbus had stuck to their production schedule of only the A330-300, sales of the A330 would have stayed relatively low outside of Asia because its range (circa 5,000 nautical miles) would not be sufficient for flights from Europe to much of the rest of the world. It was only at the airlines' prodding that Airbus offered the A330-200, which with its 6,400 nm range made it possible to fly from Europe to most of the world's destinations non-stop. I believe that AF uses the A332 on flights from CDG to former French African colonies, where the airline makes lots of €'s per flight.

User currently offlineSU184 From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 236 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6875 times:

If CX were that unhappy with their A346's, why then they still operate them specially they only have 3 leased ones, they could have swapped them for a -"better"- performing aircrafts as some people might like to say, I see the A346 as THE perfect aircraft in many aspects.

User currently offlineWindowSeat From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1312 posts, RR: 57
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6709 times:

Quoting SU184 (Reply 18):
If CX were that unhappy with their A346's, why then they still operate them specially they only have 3 leased ones, they could have swapped them for a -"better"- performing aircrafts as some people might like to say...

Perhaps because there aren't many aircraft, that are relatively new and similar to A346 in capacity and range, currently available...

cheers



I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6679 times:

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 16):
I thought it was CX and SAA that were unhappy with their 346s?

South African Airlines is overwhelmingly amazed by the performance of their A340-600s.

N


User currently offlineRootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4186 posts, RR: 40
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 6550 times:

too bad the -300 series didn't have that many orders.To my eyes its esthetically the nicest looking bird out there along with the 744 and MD 11


A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6923 posts, RR: 63
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 6303 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 20):
South African Airlines is overwhelmingly amazed by the performance of their A340-600s.

A somewhat ambiguous statement. Amazed = delighted or appalled? wink 


User currently offlinePHXinterrupted From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 474 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 6214 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 15):
Airlines want to benefit from the growth now. An efficient 250-300 seater with good cargo capasity is instrumental in this. The 787 will be available after 2009, so most have limited options.

According to Boeing's 787 website:

Production will begin in 2006. First flight is expected in 2007 with certification, delivery and entry into service occurring in 2008.



Keepin' it real.
User currently offlineAerosol From Germany, joined Oct 2000, 558 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5907 times:

Quoting PHXinterrupted (Reply 23):
Production will begin in 2006. First flight is expected in 2007 with certification, delivery and entry into service occurring in 2008.

Yes, but when do you get one if you order one now (delivery slot problem)...

it seems like everytime Airbus is discussed, someone has to bring up these stupid 346 rumors.

Please continue with the 330 topic!


25 Aerlingus330 : I prefere the A330-300 rather to the A330-200. How many Airlines actually operate both? I know that Aer Lingus do. They tend to operate the -300 to th
26 NCLairport : US Aiways operates both the -200 and -300. I did notice a surge in operators of the A330 in the late 90's. All of a sudden all of the British companie
27 BA319-131 : Sorry NCLairport, US have ordered the -200, but have not received any yet. Rgds Mark
28 NCLairport : really? oh cool that means i've flown on the -300 and did not even realise hahaha. I flew MAN to PHL on US Airways and thought I was on a -200. I thin
29 Post contains links and images Aerlingus330 : Mainly the length of the two aircraft, The -300 is 64 metres long and the -200 is 59 metres long. Its a bit weird, but you just know which is which. I
30 Carpethead : In addition to EI; KE, QF, & NW. AF (Air Inter) has operated both types of aircraft but not at the same time, I believe.
31 SAS_A330-300 : Add MH to the list.
32 Pelican : What's wrong with their climb performance? pelican
33 Gigneil : Nothing. At all. A330s rocket off the runway. A340-300s have a somewhat slower rate of climb. N
34 Post contains images Lightsaber : The -200 added the range that QA, NW, and others required to make the airframe interesting. While the -300 has since "stretched its legs," its still
35 AFinMIA : Just a personal opinion, but it is a very nice looking a/c. It's may favorite Airbus by far. I cannot wait for my first ride in one next week on Aer L
36 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : ...the overstatement of the year ...the understatement of the year Way to go Piggie
37 FlyinTLow : Add Lufthansa to that, as they operated the A330-200 ex-Sabena aircraft. Kinda funny though, as they seem to go contrary to the trend. They got rid o
38 PM : Some (I think 2) were ex-Sabena and the others (I think 3) were ex-Swissair. Not that unusual. The -300 is still selling. The 20 for China Eastern ar
39 NCLairport : I think the 330 climb performance is poor. When we took off from SFB the climb was really sluggish and it seemed to take ages to get any height. Same
40 Cornish : It wouldn't be the first airliner to take time for the market to really warm to it. Look at the Boeing 737 of course, now phenominally successful, but
41 RayChuang : In fact, when Airbus first marketed the A330-300 back in the middle 1980's, the plane was intended primarily for medium-range high-density Asian rout
42 PM : In fact, China Eastern is the only one to have bought the 333. (China Southern has bought A330-200s and I'm pretty sure the Air China order is also f
43 Trex8 : and CIs orders for 14, 2 leases and 2 options
44 Gigneil : Its not a subjective topic. The A330 maintains climb performance in FPM comparable to a 777. N
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