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AC's A346?  
User currently offlineYULMRS From France, joined Mar 2005, 195 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4537 times:

AC ordered some (3 I think) A346, when will those planes be delivered ? How will they use them (on which routes) ?  Confused

I was thinking to YYZ-LHR
YYZ-NRT
YUL-CDG (during summer)


To any North American carrier, send us a regular flight in MRS !!!!!
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4512 times:

The A346's were deferred to 2010. Expect an order to be announced soon for 50 wide body aircraft. Most rumours indicate an order for 787's is likely, so there's a good chance the A346 will never wear the Air Canada colours.

Welcome to a.net!



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineJean Leloup From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2116 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4498 times:

The orders were deferred to 2010, and I believe the consensus here is that they will almost certainly be cancelled...

UNLESS they become a part of Air Canada's imminent 50 widebody order. If they go with Airbus, some 346's and 345's might be involved. That's not the main intention of the order (it is mostly supposed to be replacing 767's), but if they do go with Airbus, you never know what sort of package they will work out.

If they were to take them now, I woudl have expected them to fly on the old 744 routes. But the situation being what it is now, it's probably too early to speculate on where they would use them if they ever did get them.



Next flight.... who knows.
User currently offlineAC7E7 From Canada, joined exactly 10 years ago today! , 646 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4493 times:

AC ordered 3 A340-600s but were then deferred until 2009 or 2010. They may be cancelled without penalty. If Airbus wins the AC order for A350s, it has been suggested by an AC insider that the order will also include numerous A340-600HGWs to begin delivery next year.
Of course, the order may also go to Boeing, who would supply AC with 787s as well as 773ERs, and the A340-600s would be cancelled.


User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4371 times:

Another possibility is a split order, much like in the Regional Jet market, where Air Canada picked and chose what it thought suited it best from both major players. If they end up with 20 of one type and 30 of another, but from different manufacturers, their objectives will be accomplished.

I'm very interested to see what happens!



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineN754PR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4340 times:

As far as I know the 3 A346's for AC have either never been built or the aircraft are sitting in France...never seen any info on the 3 c/n.

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16307 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4337 times:

If AC has paid deposits on the 346's, there will be a penalty if the order is cancelled. Airbus will however likely let the deposits apply to any future order, even more 320's.


Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineSebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1665 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4235 times:

During the CCAA process, those three (never-built) A346s were deferred by the parties until 2010. AC also gained the right to cancel that order without penalty or switch the order to other aircraft. AC originally ordered two 340-500s, which were built, and the 340-600s, which were deferred a couple of times even before CCAA. The 340-500s were to be launched by AC in 2002, but certification was held up by a combination of technical and supplier issues. As a result, Airbus was supposedly on the hook for penalties to AC, but with the deteriorating state of AC's finances in 2002-03, AC was just as happy to see the planes delayed in Toulouse. Ultimately, during the latter stages of CCAA, AC negotiated a settlement with Airbus that deferred the 346s and the delivery of one or two 319s - I can't remember the figure - and permitted AC to acquire the 345s for a price of US$87m each.

User currently offlineJean Leloup From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2116 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4052 times:

If AC has the ability to cancel the orders without penalty, does the fact that they have not done so indicate in any way that they are leaning towards taking them? Or does it not matter because they could cancel at any time? Is there a date by which they are required to cancel if they are going to do so?


Next flight.... who knows.
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16307 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3948 times:

Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 8):
If AC has the ability to cancel the orders without penalty, does the fact that they have not done so indicate in any way that they are leaning towards taking them?

Not really. The fact that they have deferred delivery to 2010 (in effect, indefinitely) means simply that they don't need the aircraft now, but the order remains on the books.

Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 8):
Is there a date by which they are required to cancel if they are going to do so?

Depends on the airline customer. Generally a manufacturer will start to assess penalties if an order is cancelled after production starts which with lead orders to suppliers can be about 18 mos in advance, so AC has some time to go before it confirms the order. Airbus will likely be lenient with AC since AC is a very good Airbus customer anyway.

I would consider these 3 346's effectively cancelled. Anything can happen between now and 2010.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3933 times:

Well they could become pawns in an attempt to swing the upcoming order Airbus's way.

User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6939 posts, RR: 63
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3873 times:

Quoting N754PR (Reply 5):
As far as I know the 3 A346's for AC have either never been built or the aircraft are sitting in France...never seen any info on the 3 c/n.

They haven't been built. The c/ns are 592, 596 and 599.


User currently offlineN754PR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3858 times:

I know the c/n's but have they been built?

User currently offlineMEA330 From Lebanon, joined Aug 2002, 286 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3778 times:

Latest info is the 3 airframes were built:
MSN 592 F-WWCU
MSN 596 F-WWCC
MSN 599 F-WWCO

Air Canada annnounced deferral around March 2004, too late to delay aircraft built.The 3 planes have never been flown after assembly, maybe waiting for any modifications if offered to another customer. They could be offered to the 3 big A340-600 clients ( LH,IB and Virgin).


User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1794 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3760 times:

If MEA's info is correct

Is there any possibility of CX getting it? I would suspect that some A346 for AC would be neccesary. For instance, YVR-HKG is operated by an A346 by CX on certain days. Wouldn't AC be able to fill up the bird also?

There are so many debates going about AC ordering the 787, but I think they would stick with the A350. Especially if they are thinking about a 767 retirement, then wouldn't it be a good chance to assemble all of their long-haul AC with the Airbus? (I don't plan to start A vs. B) And no bashing please. This is WHAT I THINK.

Sometimes, I wonder what the moderator on these forums are for.........



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2971 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3694 times:

So then MSN 592, 596, & 599 are white-tails?
Or were they partially built but not completed.

Airbus has done that on some A320 series destined for US Airways when their financial condition went sour plus some other carriers too.

Boeing had something like than happen to them too but not of recently. Like when the Asian crisis hit in 1997, a 763 & 74E bound for Asiana never happened. One of the 74E went to Air Namibia and the 767 I believe was never finished.


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6939 posts, RR: 63
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3679 times:

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 15):
Boeing had something like than happen to them too but not of recently. Like when the Asian crisis hit in 1997, a 763 & 74E bound for Asiana never happened. One of the 74E went to Air Namibia and the 767 I believe was never finished.

Isn't that also why SAA picked up two GE-powered 744s after their first six all had RR?

Back to the AC 346s. So they have been built? I had no idea. Where are they? Airbus aren't going to hold them until 2010 and then deliver them to AC!


User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1842 times:

No info if these planes have been built or not , but to complete the informations MEA330 gave , they were supposed to be :
592 C-GKOO
596 C-GKOU
599 C-GK..

The test registrations he gave , were ONLY reservation , it's not an indication that these frames have been built.


User currently offlinePlaneSmart From New Zealand, joined Dec 2004, 987 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1437 times:

If AC could cancel at ZERO penalty, given their financial position, they would have done so, and banked the dollars.

That they haven't, reflects politics, rather than a long-term committment to purchase, what will then be outdated aircraft.

Only other explanation is that AC signed for the A346 at a very good price, and A have agreed to give the same % discount on whatever model AC take delivery of in the future.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1408 times:

Quoting PlaneSmart (Reply 18):
That they haven't, reflects politics, rather than a long-term committment to purchase, what will then be outdated aircraft.

What, prithee tell, will be the replacement to these aircraft by 2010?

N


User currently offlineDalecary From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1295 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 19):
What, prithee tell, will be the replacement to these aircraft by 2010?

346/346HGW or 773ER is the obvious answer to your question. Thought even you may have known that!!!!


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