CALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3662 posts, RR: 8 Posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3078 times:
so with this announcement and finding...how long will Tilton be around. in the travel section of usatoday it says Tilton received a $366,000 bonus last year on top of his salary.....this wont sit good after taking concessions from every group.
okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
RedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4175 posts, RR: 30 Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3049 times:
Although it's not much of a bonus insofar as CEO compensation for a large company goes, it smacks of hypocrisy at a time when they are exacting a lot of concessions from the employees. What a pig. If he really wanted to set the example and develop a better working relationship then he should at least forgo any bonus compensation.
Sounds like a repeat of the Don Carty mess at AA back in '02.
F9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4731 posts, RR: 30 Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2995 times:
What ever happened to dedication?
I am saddened at the shape of UA. I am even more saddened at seeing Tilton in full control of UA. He is pocketing $366,000.00. He signed that check, and deposited it into his account. While doing so, I guarantee you he never once considered the feelings of those he got concessions from while depositing the check. He never even once thought about the pension plans he pulled the plug on while depositing it.
Am I asleep at the wheel? I thought a bonus was given when a company spits out profits? I thought a bonus was a reward for success? I thought a bonus was something you got, when YOU EARNED IT?????
For those of you that seriously think Tilton is the savior of UA, you have to seriously rethink it. That man is setting UA up for complete failure.
Jdaniel001 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2970 times:
F9animal...you have to admit that Tilton has done a lot to generate revenue for the company. Moving capacity from the domestic market to the international market. Adding flights to 2 new Asian markets. Introducing P.S. service. I think that they are and will be better off in the long (o.k. long long long) run but I do believe that he should have declined the bonus or given back to the employees.
RedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4175 posts, RR: 30 Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2966 times:
Quoting F9Animal (Reply 4): I thought a bonus was given when a company spits out profits? I thought a bonus was a reward for success?
Not to split hairs; however, a CEO (or any management) bonus could be structured around diminishing losses. In other words, "do something that reduces our losses and we'll pay you extra." For all we know, that bonus could have been paid out for exactly what he did, which was to obtain employee concessions (e.g., reduce losses).
But that still doesn't detract from his primary duty, which is to LEAD the company. And as any successful leader will tell you, you have to lead by example in order to gain the respect of your charges and their willingness to go to bat for you.
As a leader, he sets a very, very poor example by asking his employees to take a pay cut but then he accepts a bonus. Like I said before, he's a pig.
Seamefly From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 308 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2940 times:
Same old story... What's new about all these airlines' CEOs? All of them try to squeeze as much money from the airlines to put in their own pockets. In return, they make the employees take tremendous pay cuts.
Airline employees are just their slaves to work and they hope to pay these employees as little as possible so all the excessive $ could go deeper into their own pockets..
ExFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9 Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2853 times:
Tough call - on the one hand, a CEO of a company with the revenue, assets, or staff of United in any other industry would earn a hell of a lot more than Tilton does. Although I realize it may be a hard pill to swallow for airline employees, the airline industry as a whole pays its executives less than comparable firms in other industries. And for a company in United's position, the board of directors doesn't have a lot of flexibility in offering options or stock as part of a compensation package.
On the other hand, when you're trying to get givebacks from your employees and you've been in Chapter 11 for over 2 years with no end in sight (Ch 11 is supposed to be "reorganization", not "permanent way of doing business"), it's hard to justify Tilton getting a bonus, at least on a "gut feel" level.
It would probably have been best for Tilton to forego the bonus, or at least explain how it was arrived at - in other words, what he did to earn it.
F9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4731 posts, RR: 30 Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2833 times:
Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 6): Not to split hairs; however, a CEO (or any management) bonus could be structured around diminishing losses. In other words, "do something that reduces our losses and we'll pay you extra." For all we know, that bonus could have been paid out for exactly what he did, which was to obtain employee concessions (e.g., reduce losses).
As far as Tilton diminshing losses.... I will not even step on that ground. The losses have steadily grown bigger. Tilton has had plenty of time to fish and find the formula to success for UA.
Employee concessions.... He got them, so now what? What can he possibly do now? Can he possibly target the employees anymore? What else does he want from the employees paychecks?
I love to eat steak. When money runs low, I eat Top Ramen. When I find myself unable to eat Top Ramen, then I find a new job. Sounds like Tilton may just need to quit eating the steak, and forget stepping into the world of Top Ramen.
Again, I feel for the employees of UA. I think it is time for a breath of fresh air to step in, and take control of the airline. UA needs a whole new management structure.
AA7573E From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 475 posts, RR: 3 Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2816 times:
Quote: Gigneil (Reply 8):Clearly, none of you understand how executive compensation works.
Clearly, you have no idea how business works. It is completely illogical that the CEO of a bankrupt carrier would take a bonus, at all. If the employees are giving it up, why should he take it from them? What does he need a bonus for? They are typically paid for going above and beyond. I would hardly call keeping your company in its 2nd and possibly 3rd full year of BK going above and beyond. You must have a different perspective.
If you ever become an executive, and with your perspective I highly doubt that will ever happen, I encourage you to take a bonus that is in excess of all your employees annual salary - during a time when you have asked you employees to take pay cuts. See how it goes over.
Your respect rating boggles my mind, when you continually spout such poorly thought out trash.
CTHEWORLD From Mayotte, joined Dec 2004, 478 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2813 times:
It doesn F9? So, I take it Tilton is to blame for the debacle at Gordie's company? Is he responsible for NW's cut backs? How about down in Dallas, has he been moonlighting at AA? This is an idustry wide crisis. Are you going to fire Tilton becuase United's unit revenue performance is second only to WN's. Are you going to fire Tilton because he didn't a pull a US and hastily come out of Ch. 11 only to fly right back in? Are you going to fire Tilton because with all of the adverse conditions that have been thrown at UA, they continue to fly and navigate through one of the most complicated Ch.11 proceedings in U.S. history?
7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3586 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2786 times:
It is time to either put up or shut up for UA; either get out of bankruptcy or just liquidate...it is disgusting that the employees give so much in terms of conecessions but yet the CEO takes home a bonus..i hope he chokes on his own money!
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
AA7573E From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 475 posts, RR: 3 Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2782 times:
I would not fire him for any of the illogical examples you have cited. However, having the board remove him for not reaching the goal of taking the airline out of BK in the past two plus years would be 100% defensible.
FriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4003 posts, RR: 6 Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2782 times:
You are all forgetting something. Tilton is currently the best bet UA has. He is working for pennies compared to other CEOs (I think the CEO of Pfizer makes $2.6 mil base a year), and has done an ok job keeping the airline afloat. UA will not find another CEO that's better or, for lack of a better word, cheaper, than Glenn Tilton. The bonus was part of an incentive program they initiated, and it was paid because UA met the goals they set for 2004. This program was announced last year. Yes, it seems bad, but a lot of employees understand why he got the bonus, and the fact that he's making almost half of what he was when he started should not be ignored. He has taken cuts, is working for the lowest CEO salary in the industry (let me remind you, UA is the second largest airline in the world and the largest US international airline by passenger bookings), and has managed to keep UA alive. Give the guy a break.
Jdaniel001 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2779 times:
Nice job CTHEWORLD. I think we all agree that the industry is a mess. And I also know that Lamar Muse kept very tight cost controls on WN. That is why they are in the condition that they are in today. It was rough for their employees also. Everyone has to adjust to making a lower wage or having less benefits. Speaking of which, does anyone know how much money is taken out of the paycheck for medical insurance at UA now? I think UA recently started charging the employees.
F9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4731 posts, RR: 30 Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2759 times:
Quoting CTHEWORLD (Reply 13): It doesn F9? So, I take it Tilton is to blame for the debacle at Gordie's company? Is he responsible for NW's cut backs? How about down in Dallas, has he been moonlighting at AA? This is an idustry wide crisis. Are you going to fire Tilton becuase United's unit revenue performance is second only to WN's. Are you going to fire Tilton because he didn't a pull a US and hastily come out of Ch. 11 only to fly right back in? Are you going to fire Tilton because with all of the adverse conditions that have been thrown at UA, they continue to fly and navigate through one of the most complicated Ch.11 proceedings in U.S. history?
I would fire him to bring in someone that knows how to run an airline, or hire someone that knows how to make money.
I agree with you that the industry is in bad shape right now, but airlines need someone that does more than run a bonus check to the bank, and dips into an employees paycheck to pay the bills.
Losses are a part of the game right now, but I see Tilton doing nothing to minimize the amount of loss. He was so into dipping into the employees paychecks, and pensions, that he has done little to steer the airline from a nose dive.
US Airways has done much more with Lakefield in. Lakefield has no prior experience in the airlines, and at least has become creative to change the way US Airways does business. In fact, I see US Airways getting cash from unlikely sources now.
Who wants to invest into UA? What has Tilton done to show investors that he is CHANGING the way UA does business?
UA has too many different things going on!! TED, mainline, and United PS? Maybe Tilton should focus on running a simple airline. Take out the pillows, outsource some maintenance, park more than a few planes, and most importantly focus on better advertising.
When the US Government wont even invest into your company, perhaps that tells you that something is seriously wrong. Even US Airways got an ATSB loan.
Seriously, the only thing I see changed at UA are the following:
New paint jobs.
Ummmmmm. TED? Ok, we will put that back into the New Paint Jobs Section.
You can defend your airline. I respect that. But you have to agree that something needs to be done. I am not against UA in any way. I just hate seeing my peers suffer so badly.
CTHEWORLD From Mayotte, joined Dec 2004, 478 posts, RR: 3 Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2750 times:
You obviously know nothing of the case nor the creditor committee. When did the courts get around to hearing the issues of the muni bonds, huh? Oh, in January you say? Maybe they should have just rushed out of Ch.11 prior to that and faced with that extra 480million liability. Tilton wasnt charged with getting UAL out of Ch.11 on a prescribed schedule, he is charged with getting them out and keeping them out. There are a lot of other factors at play than you know...take the PGBC for instance.
CTHEWORLD From Mayotte, joined Dec 2004, 478 posts, RR: 3 Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2736 times:
F9, you ask who wants to invest in UA? Are you serious? 4 of the largest banks in the world and good rumor is one of the largest aircraft manufacturers. Pull your head out and read the news. As far as the product diversification, that is a smart move, no two ways about it. Outsource maintenance? Ok, done. Indianapolis shut down, outsourced, SFO / KSFO), USA - California">SFO, maint and engineering cut drastically. Change advertising from an award winning campaign that is dramatically cheaper to produce? Change livery back to one that is more expensive to paint/maintain? Uh ok, F9animal...sounds like you have all the answers!
[Edited 2005-03-17 22:44:04] BTW...united isnt and never was my airline, I am not in the industry any longer.
F9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4731 posts, RR: 30 Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2710 times:
Quoting CTHEWORLD (Reply 20): 4 of the largest banks in the world and good rumor is one of the largest aircraft manufacturers.
I love rumors! In fact, I shall live my life by rumors! Rumors are a sign of hope! I am sure those 4 banks LOOOOVVVEEE reading the quarterly losses! Heck, the banks should pump double the cash into UA. Maybe they should double Tilton's bonus check!
I certainly pulled my head out, and I read the news! So much news in fact, that everytime I read it I feel like puking. Would you like me to put a few links out about the AWESOME news UA gets everyday? I could have sworn the last article I read about UA, was not good news. In fact, I cannot remember the last time I read a positive looking article about UA.
Quoting CTHEWORLD (Reply 20): Change advertising from an award winning campaign that is dramatically cheaper to produce?
You call a cartoon award winning? I change the channel as soon as I see one come on. IMHO, Preperation H has better commericals.
Quoting CTHEWORLD (Reply 20): Change livery back to one that is more expensive to paint/maintain?
I stated that UA has too many paint jobs. Last time I looked, UA and TED were new paints. Why not throw in a Star Alliance paint too! Heck, why not paint a theme plane now! Paint is cheap!
Quoting CTHEWORLD (Reply 20): Uh ok, F9animal...sounds like you have all the answers!
I never said I had all the answers. I said UA needs someone who has more answers than Tilton does. I would not want to be the CEO of UA. If I was CEO, all I would want to do is cash my paychecks and BONUS checks.
F9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4731 posts, RR: 30 Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2694 times:
My last posting was sarcastic in some ways. I was not trying to argue with you either. I am just frustrated at seeing a once great airline, go down the path it is going.
I am an airline enthusiast. Everytime an airline fails, it is painful. Regardless if it is a competitor, I am saddened to see my friends or peers suffer.
I know I could easily find myself in the same position, as this industry is hurting. I don't take that for granted. I just share my feelings, and stand behind the employees of all airlines who are trying as hard as they can to keep the airline they work for flying.
RedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4175 posts, RR: 30 Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2676 times:
You guys rock! Ctheworld's responses reflect his lack of business acumen (I'm not going to discuss his rude personal comments; I'll leave that for someone else).
While Tilton is paid less than comparable CEO's, he's also climbed out on a limb with the employee concession issue. Had he not fought so hard to get them, I'd say he was more than entitled to his bonus and perhaps more.
The issue here is not CEO compensation. The issue is asking your employees to fall on a sword but then refusing to do so yourself. THAT sets a bad example. It leads to low morale and poisons any good will that may have existed between management and staff. And in the end, it dimishes the capacity to lead the company EFFECTIVELY.
Skyguy From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 461 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2621 times:
There would be very VERY few contenders for the CEO of UA job, who are top talent and have a proven track record.
People of Tilton's caliber do not work for charity but it should be noted that had he gone somewhere else he would have been making seriously more coin than at UA. He is in this not because he wants $millions in salary and compensation but to prove that he can turn UA around and when it reaches smooth sailing waters to relinquish the CEO position with his reputation sky-high and sell his services to the next company for a lot more. His view is medium and long term and in this business reputation is what matters.
Fact is, the majority of people at UA do not even know what he knows and the excruciatingly difficult decisions he has to take, which are encumbered with risk but also spell hope for the future. UA is investing in the future and that is what Tilton is trying to deliver, for its employees, customers and vendors.
"Those who talk, do not know, and those who know, do not talk."
25 Allstarflyer: Clearly, Gigs, you have little to no concept of leading by example. How can Tilton expect to lead his employees through hard times, which includes su
26 AA777: Nobody has actually mentioned how much he makes per year SALARY?? If I were in his position I wouldnt take a 350K bonus, especially right after all yo
27 RedFlyer: His salary, according to UAL's SEC 10k filing, is $756,832.
28 Kgin11: Apple Computer paid CEO Steve Jobs $1 last year. How about that?
29 Lemurs: After the scandle of how much stake in the company they offered him for free, sure.
30 PHXinterrupted: Anybody who reads the news knows how executive compensation works. These clowns get paid no matter what, and of course, they will take even more if t
31 Scotron11: Is Glenn Tilton a "real" person? All I hear about him at UAL is his prerecorded announcements to employees!lol Seriously, his salary is quite "modest"
32 CTHEWORLD: 1) A qoute from JP Morgan Chase "The changes to the financing agreement reflect our belief that United has made significant progress to date in loweri
33 F9Animal: Reading the quoted sentence makes me wonder. Two words really stuck out, and I took it upon myself to capitalize them for your pleasured viewing. "I
34 F9Animal: I wont argue about you with the commercials. Rhapsody is well known, as our children love them! Nothing better than a good old cartoon! Airlines and c
35 727Stretch: It's a tough call here folks. On one hand, I feel for all of us that have taken the cuts. But, you have to pay a good CEO a decent salary/bonus to kee
36 Jacobin777: how about comparisons of pay to other carriers... AA Gerard Arpey, 45 Chairman, Pres, Chief Exec. Officer $ 686.00K N/A James Beer, 43 Chief Financial
37 ANNOYEDFA: Simply AMAZING! Where are all my Co-Elite's on this one? Consessions from employee's then bonuses for the CEO....... Funny how none have responded to
38 CTHEWORLD: Well F9, until you are the managing director at JP Morgan Chase, you will have to excuse me for following his belief over your perceptions. Also, grea
39 CTHEWORLD: Oh, and BTW... the gentleman from JP Morgan Chase would never say "I know..." about any investment lest he have his attorneys all over him like a chea
40 F9Animal: UA once again posted an unbelievable loss. What does your boy at JP Morgan say about this one? Associated Press United Airlines Posts Wider 4Q Loss Fr
41 N79969: Gigneil is 100% correct in his take on this one. Tilton's world includes opportunities with plenty more money and plenty less stress than running Unit
42 NA: Its not the height of the bonus, its that a bonus is paid at all. A sign of how blind and unconsiderate many top-managers are. That a CEO of such a pr
43 Skyguy: NA: Tilton was hired under circumstances not normal to UA. The airline was bankrupt, had many operational and financial issues not to mention a slump
44 N79969: Na, Your point would be valid if Tilton were responsible for United being in a mess. He was not. He inherited an unstable company and stabilized it. T
45 Richierich: Tilton is overpaid... I know the mess UA is in is not his fault but he has to be realistic. Taking a bonus while other people in the company are getti
46 Jacobin777: I think N79969 hit it right....even though he's getting paid within his peer group, but his peer group does not have the 1)size of UA 2) the massive
47 Jdaniel001: Is anyone in the airline business overpaid?
48 Mymiles2go: I would like to note that out of all of the bonus money paid ($97 million) to employees this past year - Tilton represents only 2-3% of the total bonu
49 Supa7E7: I think Bono should run UA. Next to Africa, UA is has the most cries for help. Oh, but you'll need to pay him $40 million a year at least.
50 AA777: If he is making 750K a year he doesnt need a bonus. Thats a hell of a lot of money in the first place. He makes more than AA's CEO, which is the CEO o
51 Jdaniel001: Nice...Let's see, a huge rock concert for aid to help the US airline industry. (Trust me, DL and CO will be yelling "uncle" soon enough). Call it "Ai
52 NWAFA: The ONLY CEO that deserves any type of Bonus is the CEO of Southwest. They (WN) know who they are, they execute it every day. The CEO's of all the oth
53 Jdaniel001: Forgive me for disagreeing, I don't see that the bankruptcy process is stalled, I think the the complexity of the airline and it's overall size warra
54 Gigneil: Well, then good luck finding management, hotshots. N
55 NWAFA: Gigneil, We are not talking about just mangement, we are talking CEO. Company's have no problem finding managers.
56 Daedaeg: 350K bonus is not a lot of money for a CEO. I really don't see what the big deal is. He's already taken a deep pay cut. In order to acquire and retain
57 Jdaniel001: Daedaeg is right. Plus I'm sure that no one can keep Glen's plan running on track. You can't replace someone once your in this far.
58 F9Animal: Good point. How about the thousands of talented employees that took it up the nose, while this moron gets $300K to take to the bank? That is clearly
59 F9Animal: I can picture him driving home, calling the wife and telling her! He probably had a nice bottle of wine, and celebrated! I know when I get a bonus, es
60 CTHEWORLD: F9Animal, Are you not reading all of the posts above that have real business logic in them, or are you just so caught up in yourself you can't see log
61 F9Animal: I am reading them alright. Glad you take notice of my posts. Business logic? Oh yeah, a bonus check is business logic. Before you insult my intellige
62 CTHEWORLD: A bonus, ok'd by the court, ok'd by the creditor committee, ok'd by the board...you are saying that you have more business logic and experience than t
63 Gigneil: It wasn't a surprise, and its not like he got it in one day. I think you guys are confusing bonuses that a part of executive compensation with your c
64 Skyguy: F9Animal: What exactly has Tilton done that in your opinion qualifies him as a moron other than accept a deserved bonus? Has he crippled the company?
65 ExFATboy: Exactly what I was about to say...people are getting too caught up in the world "bonus" here. At this level, you have to look at bonus as a part of t
66 FriendlySkies: F9Animal: Whatever you're smoking, get off it... Tilton and the other executives at UA received a "bonus" as part of an executive compensation program
67 Avek00: My two cents: 1. Like it or not, Tilton was the best United could come up with the last time they looked around for a CEO - NOT ONE industry insider w
68 F9Animal: Go ahead, flame..... Fine, UA is going to be just fine. They have nothing to worry about! Good luck UA!!! Now let me kick back and sober up!
69 CTHEWORLD: Wow, F9, you truly are irrational. No one ever said anything about being fine, what they did say is that your insight is one dimensional and infantile
70 Jdaniel001: No...F9Animal just needs a beer. Then reality will set in and the government will proclaim all airline employees mentally insane and we'll all get dis
71 N79969: I think the consensus is that Tilton is being compensated fairly considering his: other work alternatives, his performance so far, and the lack of oth
72 F9Animal: LMAO!! There ya go! I really think you gave me or most of us a heck of an idea there! I will take ya up on the beer though! Dimensional and infantile
73 Jdaniel001: How I miss those days of yesteryear on the ramp. F9Animal, you owe CTHEWORLD an apology. You know as well as I do that every is entitled to their opi
74 F9Animal: No way will I appologize to him. He slammed my profession, so he got what he dished out. I have no reason to appologize, nor do I have to agree. Your