Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
New Fleet For Canadian  
User currently offlineFlygirl From Canada, joined Jun 2011, 0 posts, RR: 0
Posted (14 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2358 times:

Canadian's new CEO announces $5 billion purchase spree for new aircraft for Canadian. Anyone care to hazard a guess of which manufacturer and types will be considered? The DC10's will be replaced with 767s but what about the 737-200s and the F28s?


http://www.nationalpost.com/financialpost.asp?f=000320/236405

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (14 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1970 times:

I was just going to post that link. Anyways, these are only things I consider possible, but here's what I would think:

737's to be replaced by some A319
possible that some 737, F28 and AC DC9 aircraft be replaced by 717
launch orders for BRJ-X?
additional CRJ's to supplement AC fleet?
Dash8 Q series aircraft?
unsure of potential for A318, delivery times are longer, and aircraft is heavier, but maybe it could happen.

Also, just to note that CP has 10 firm and 10 options for A320's for delivery in the next year or so. I predict they will be delivered, and options converted for delivery.

Also, note that Italy, South America, Asia, Amsterdam, and some other long haul destinations are up for expansion. I predict more 767's (possibly some used aircraft for fast delivery times), and either CP will add or AC will acquire additional A330/340 aircraft.


User currently offlineYWG777 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (14 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1918 times:

I predict that CP will replace their 737-200's with 737-700's. Foker 28 with CRJ, DC-9's with 717 or MD-80, 767 I think they should order more of them. 767-400 . I also think add 10 more 747-400's to the fleet and that should be enough planes. Maybe some A340's.
YWG777


User currently offlineBoeing 777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (14 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1916 times:

YEAH!!! NO MORE 737-200S AND F28S!!!

AC183, I couldn't agree with you more on the new fleet makeup! But the A318 could still be a possibilty. Although they're awfully heavy(and expensive to run), they have a similar capacity to AC's DC-9-30s - and cockpit commonality to boot.(I've heard about AC having concerns about retraining pilots on Boeing a/c. I saw that in a news article about the Onex bid last year.) Add to that greater range than the DC-9.(the A319 actually has greater range than the A320, so why not the A318?) IMO, I'm not too sure about the 717, but, yes, that's a possibilty, as you're right about the delivery time for the A318. The 717 is already in production, while the A318 is not even starting about late 2001 or early 2002.

If the orders for the 10 A320s with 10 options are true, then I am not surprised.

AC has indeed said it will take the delivery of three second-hand 767-300ERs from Air New Zealand, TACA and Britannia this spring to replace the last four DC-10-30s slated to go out. Check this little piece o'news: http://www.interlog.com/~rollers/pianews.html

I'd sure love to see these F28s go. The sooner the better. I don't miss them. How about additional CRJs(or CRJ-700s) for AC? I kinda like the BRJ-X's design, but it may be too big to fit into the RJ criteria. But I'd love to see these new Dash 8Q series props come in.

YWG777, I don't think AC will even bother to go for the 737-700, and the 767-400. And the MD-80 is no longer in production, I believe. And I do not see AC/CP acquiring any more 747-400s.



User currently offlineBoeing757/767 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 2281 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (14 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1904 times:

I hope AC does what Horizon is doing: replacing F28s with CRJ-700s.


Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
User currently offlineYwg777 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (14 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1870 times:

I can see that working boeing757/767. Thats a good idea. CP just got 4 more 767.
YWG777


User currently offlineAF777 From Canada, joined Jun 1999, 223 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (14 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1874 times:

Canadian is slowly being integrated into Air Canada after AC's purchase of CP. Why would they buy new planes when, in 2 years, they will be existant only in history books?

User currently offlineCPAir 4 life From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (14 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1865 times:

I think you answered your own question when you said
"Canadian is slowly being integrated into Air Canada after AC's purchase of CP."
They are buying new planes to replace the older gas guzzlers (relatively speaking) in CP's fleet.
When the merger is complete in a couple of years, the new Air Canada will emerge as the 10th largest airline in the world with a very young fleet of aircraft. CP still needs planes to fly the routes they fly. Brotto is looking ahead, at the big picture. He is trying to cut costs by getting rid of inefficient aircraft. This is just the beginning in the saga that is the Canadian aviation industry.


User currently offlineCPDC10-30 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 4775 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (14 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1865 times:

CP Air 4 life is exactly right. Air Canada can expand itself quicker through Canadian. Remeber, Canadian has orders for quite a few A320s that could be put into service within a couple of years as well as the 767-300s. CP 's main strength is its Asian routes, which usually sell very well.

Air Canada won't simply erase the identity of Canadian just for the sake of their victory in the takeover. They know better than that. There are sentimental people like myself who will still book on Canadian even though it is owned by AC.

BTW AF777...your info says you are in the US but you live in Montreal? I thought that sepratism was on the decline...


User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (14 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1832 times:

I will be very curious to see what the F28's are replaced with, but I have some points to consider on that:

-Note that in the past few years certain routes that really are mainline in nature have been operated by F28's. Although the rescheduling changes a lot of that, there is still some F28 usage that will probably be replaced by larger aircraft as business class seating will be important for those routes.

-Note that the F28's are being deployed on some higher density regional routes expressly because of the business class. For this reason I think it is quite possible that they would be replaced at least in part by larger aircraft with business class accomodation. A mix of a 90-100 seater (BRJ-X-90 or 717 or A318's) with a few CRJ's to shore up frequencies is possible, although we'll have to see what actually happens.

-Also, note that it is potentially possible that the AirBC/AirNova BAe146's could be put on a few regional routes, and the 146 routes handed over to larger aircraft, thus being a reshuffle of fleet use to partly replace F28's being a possible scenario.

-Also, take note that the F28's CP has are configured with 55 seats, so CRJ-700's wouldn't seem to be all that logical a replacement if they did choose RJ's. One way or another I think they would be better going with either smaller CRJ's at 50 seats, or BRJ-X aircraft fitted with 80-90 seats. While they would have to wait for that to be built, it would mean that AC/CP would have a lot of influence to get the airplane designed to fit their needs.

-Also, while it may not factor too much into purchasing decisions, the CRJ is not the rampers or mechanics favourite. Not that it's any different than other small aircraft, it's just that the smaller spaces are tougher to work in. The exception to this rule, I am told, is that the Dash8 is an exceptionally good aircraft for ground crew, so perhaps some Dash8 Q-series airplanes would be considered?


User currently offlineBush From Canada, joined May 1999, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (14 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1820 times:

The only reason Canadian is acquiring new planes is due to its merger with Air Canada. And since the eventual goal is to completely combine the two airlines, Canadian's new aircraft will essentially BE Air Canada's right from the start. For that reason, I'm sure they would choose the A319/A320 as replacements for the 737s because of Air Canada's existing Airbus fleet. As for the F28s, didn't someone from here say that Canadian Regional was looking into the 728Jet?

User currently offlineC-FTOD From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (14 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1814 times:

I agree with Bush. It seems to make sense that CP (AC)will purchase similar aircraft as AC such as the A319 and perhaps the A318. I find it highly unlikely that the Boeing 717 would be chosen, for commonality reasons. I think that as far as AC can go, they will phase out CP's uncommon/old planes and re-equip CP with Airbus and CRJs.
What will be interesting is the 747-400s. Air Canada has been steering away from them in favour of A340s, even on the pacific. Would they sell CP's 4 747s in favour of A340-600s? Just a thought. AC was ready to retire it's 3 747-400s but has decided to hang on to them for a while.
Personally, I'd like to see an Air Canada DC-10! I know it won't happen.


User currently offlineJAT From Canada, joined Feb 2000, 1101 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (14 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1803 times:

I was talking to an Air Canada offical at an "Unlimited Trades" job information fare type of thing for high school students here in Toronto. Anyway, I asked him about fleet upgrading (mainly the DC-9, the rest of the fleet is young) and he said that they are being phased out as more A319's are delivere to Air Canada.

User currently offlineAF777 From Canada, joined Jun 1999, 223 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (14 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1804 times:

Firstly, I though that Canadian's fleet would be completely integrated into AC's. What do you mean by your comment, "AC's won't simply erase the idently of Canadian." Please correct me if I'm wrong. How would one reserve with CP and not AC if this is the case. Secondly, about your sepratism comment: I am an American who lives in Montreal, therefore my profile is correct, and your comment, snotty.

User currently offlineYWG777 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (14 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1792 times:

The ERJ'S could repalce the F-28. Any more ideas. What about 737-800ng's?
YWG777


User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (14 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1791 times:

YWG777, I don't think ERJ's are even in the running. In fact, I rather doubt 728Jet's are all that highly considered either. I just don't think Bombardier would really let that happen, and with AC's headquarters being right next door to the Canadair plant, I can't see Bombardier allowing AC orders to go elsewhere, it would just be an embarrasment. That doesn't mean they'll buy CRJ's or CRJ-700's or BRJ-X's, though. There is still the Dash8, 717 or A318 they could choose instead, all of which are very acceptable to passengers, the airline, etc.

As for 737NG, this won't happen. Both AC and CP have already chosen A32X aircraft. The reason they MAY consider 717's are simply because they are lighter, cheaper, and availiable sooner than other aircraft. 737NG's don't have any of these advantages, so they're not even in the running.


User currently offlineSeat 1a From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (14 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1798 times:

hello....

my turn to jump into the the invisible CEO chair!

AC will go with airbus equipment for all 737-200 pilot transition training and the reason they acquired additional 767's for the DC'10 replacements was due to current training infrastructure. (why re-write the bible?)

Canadian airlines is AIR CANADA... PERIOD. GET USE TO IT! There is no such thing as keeping an identity! (Lord milton in front of the newly painted canadian/AC 737 was just running for papalcy)

say.... was there still an identity two years ago of Nordair at Canadian? NOT......!

canadian pulls out of 1W in june.....

all of us top fliers have reciprocal elite status....

they are paying "2 dollars for what should cost 1 dollar" on just about everything.

airbus is in!

RJ's are in!

Dash's are in!

what you see at AC will be mirrored at CP. Paul down in calgary knows how to make this happen.



User currently offlineAllee From Canada, joined Jun 1999, 480 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (14 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1796 times:

I was the guy that posted back in January that Canadian Regional was considering the 728JET (as it was in Flight International).

AC183, I agree with you. I was thinking the same thing about Bombardier. They wouldn't allow such a big order for regional jets slip under their nose. Do you think they will have learned a slight lesson from the Inter-Canadian/Embraer 145 purchase?!! For some reason, I keep thinking that I heard somewhere that they would buy Bombardier. Or was Onex?!!

Al


User currently offlineCPDC10-30 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 4775 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (14 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1791 times:

Seat1a may be right that Lord Milton is fooling me with the transitional paint scheme and all, but my thinking is that there will remain differnces in the two airlines if only for the employees. Don't forget that the unions representing both Canadian and Air Canada are fighting over seniority rights and there are some old tempers flaring. One union is fighting the other, AC believing that since they "won" they should get more seniority than their comrades at Canadian. I don't think you'll see a happy marriage for at least the next few years.

Pour M. AF777:
Ayez un peu d'humer, mon ami.
Your profile represents a humorous opportunity listing Montreal as the "location" and United States as the "country". If you live somewhere, I would consider that to be your "country". Feel free to take a crack at me if you wish but don't continue the nonsense here though. Send me an email if you would like to.


User currently offlineBush From Canada, joined May 1999, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (14 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1786 times:

I agree with all of you who think AC would go with Bombardier before Fairchild or Embraer - but politics may not win out here.

Personally I don't think the Bombardier products are best suited - the CRJ's can't offer business class, and the planned BRX will initially have around 100 seats (correct any of this if I'm wrong), much higher than the capacity of the F28's they would be replacing, and almost at the A319's passenger capacity.

I'm not terribly familiar with the ERJ 170 or the 728Jet, but I beleive the ERJ has four abreast seating which does not lend itself to business class installation. The F28's closest replacement, in terms of passenger capacity and class offerings, appears to be the 728Jet.

Of course, Air Canada may choose to go a different direction - using larger planes and reducing frequency, in which case they wouldn't really be looking for a replacement. AH! I need to shutup! But one last thing - I wouldn't rule anyone out of the race just yet.


User currently offlineYWG777 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (14 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1778 times:

Well ERJ'S are very good planes. I would mind seeing sf3. Dash 8 need more of. As for 728's I think they could replace the F-28. Is AC ordering more airbus aircraft?
YWG777


User currently offlineBoeing 777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (14 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1761 times:

I agree that the ERJ 135/145 series sound like good planes, but because of a few reasons, including the fact that Bombardier's HQ is in Montreal, like AC and also that AC already has CRJs, it's not likely that AC will order the Embraer RJs. Instead, it'll look at the CRJ-700 and possibly the -900 if it is launched, to replace the F28. The BRJ-X is another possibilty, as it could offer a business class section, which I don't think even the CRJ-700 and -900 could offer. Maybe even the 728JET, like you said.

I agree with you about the Saab SF340's - they're kind of getting on in age. And Saab doesn't manufacture passenger a/c anymore-spare parts'll get expensive! Even older are the HS748s, some of which may still be flying around in Manitoba and the Canadian North. They could use replacements in the form of Dash 8-Q100s. Note the "Q" - this is the newest Dash 8 turoprop series being manufactured by Bombardier. And they're supposed to be even quieter! Hence the "Q". (no, not the Star Trek character who's a pain in the ass to Picard!)Note: The Dash 8-100 series carries 37 pax, while the SF340 carries 34, so that's why the Dash 8-100s would be good replacements.

Of course, AC will order more Airbus a/c! AC183 said there'd be 10 A320s with another 10 options - I think those are deferred CP orders from years ago, when CP was having serious cashflow problems. Very likely, the DC-9s will give way to A319s, and possibly A318s in the future. There are more A330-300s and A340-500/600s on the way over the next 2-3 years.


User currently offlineBoeing 777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (14 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1760 times:

I agree that the ERJ 135/145 series sound like good planes, but because of a few reasons, including the fact that Bombardier's HQ is in Montreal, like AC and also that AC already has CRJs, it's not likely that AC will order the Embraer RJs. Instead, it'll look at the CRJ-700 and possibly the -900 if it is launched, to replace the F28. The BRJ-X is another possibilty, as it could offer a business class section, which I don't think even the CRJ-700 and -900 could offer. Maybe even the 728JET, like you said.

I agree with you about the Saab SF340's - they're kind of getting on in age. And Saab doesn't manufacture passenger a/c anymore-spare parts'll get expensive! Even older are the HS748s, some of which may still be flying around in Manitoba and the Canadian North. They could use replacements in the form of Dash 8-Q100s. Note the "Q" - this is the newest Dash 8 turboprop series being manufactured by Bombardier. And they're supposed to be even quieter! Hence the "Q". (no, not the Star Trek character who's a pain in the ass to Picard!)Note: The Dash 8-100 series carries 37 pax, while the SF340 carries 34, so that's why the Dash 8-100s would be good replacements.

Of course, AC will order more Airbus a/c! AC183 said there'd be 10 A320s with another 10 options - I think those are deferred CP orders from years ago, when CP was having serious cashflow problems. Very likely, the DC-9s will give way to A319s, and possibly A318s in the future. There are more A330-300s and A340-500/600s on the way over the next 2-3 years.


User currently offlineYwg777 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (14 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1751 times:

I agree with you on the dash 8's. I think Calm Air should fly them. They would be a bit more sucessful. What do you think about ARJ'S(Mesaba) Those would be good for replacing F-28's.
YWG777


User currently offlineAllee From Canada, joined Jun 1999, 480 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (14 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1754 times:

I'm in the middle of reading "Wingwalkers: A History of Canadian Airlines International", and I came across something interesting.

On page 302, it says:
"PWA's 24 Boeing 737s were now added to CPAL's 55 Boeing 737s and 13 DC-10s--a total of 92 aircraft".

I find it interesting because I only thought they had at most 66 Boeing 737s.

Allan


User currently offlineCPAir 4 life From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (14 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1750 times:


CP has gotton rid of most of the older 737-200's they had, so the number has been greatly reduced since the original merger of CPAir and PWA.
Where do think westjet got their planes?
DC-10's are all but gone now as well, I'm not sure of the number left but I hear they are doing some YVR-TPE and YVR-HNL routes.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
A New Fleet For Air Liberte? posted Fri Jun 16 2000 19:41:05 by Avion
New Fleet For Ansett posted Wed May 12 1999 07:31:44 by Tullamarine
New Livery for Canadian posted Thu Jan 14 1999 15:20:10 by jz
New Color for Canadian Airlines posted Tue Jan 12 1999 15:48:11 by JZ
New Colours For Ansett? posted Sun Jan 6 2002 08:06:50 by AJ
New Plans For Continental In CLE posted Wed Jan 2 2002 17:24:27 by Rohan737
Air Ukraine Asks For Canadian Suspension posted Wed Dec 12 2001 22:09:39 by Polaris
Possible New Livery For Ansett? posted Thu Nov 29 2001 02:48:21 by Mx5_boy
Any "Firsts" For Canadian Carriers? posted Sat Nov 17 2001 20:27:46 by Canadi>nBoy
Boeing Gets New Look For Website! posted Sat Nov 17 2001 06:59:55 by Jiml1126