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DL To Retire 732s Early  
User currently offlineDL763DFW From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 73 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 8325 times:

Saw this off DeltaNet today:

March 18, 2005

Delta will accelerate the retirement of older Boeing 737 aircraft this summer to help reduce fleet complexity and increase overall aircraft reliability. By the end of the year, 13 additional 737-200s and one 737-300 will be removed from service. This decision was based on maintenance expenses and other operating costs.

While Delta had stated earlier that it intends to remove up to four aircraft types from the fleet in about four years, the retirement of these 14 is driven by the timing and cost of the planes' maintenance cycles. This action also allows Delta to reduce fuel costs.

The retirement of the 14 aircraft will bring to 26 the total number of Delta aircraft to be retired in 2005.

82 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 8300 times:

Still leaves them with approximately 35 732's. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I believe there are about 48 still in service.


It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9515 posts, RR: 26
Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 8246 times:

While not my favorite, the 737-200 is definitely a reliable workhorse. Without a doubt, a lot of midwestern cities will probably be seeing more Comair service.

I'd probably suspect those cities with just one or two 737-200 flights a day will be seeing the changes first.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 8133 times:

Sad to see them disappear faster, but as long as it saves them money, I'm all for it. The article mentions 26 planes being retired in total in 2005. 14 are mentioned in that release above, so what are the other 12? 737 Classics as well or does that also include the AT7s scheduled to go?

User currently offlineDeltaWings From Switzerland, joined Aug 2004, 1294 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 8128 times:

When are the 767-200s to go?


~DeltaWings



Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
User currently offlineDALMD88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2614 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 8074 times:

I believe the other 12 are also 737-200. A few have already been retired this year. I haven't heard any word on 767-200 retirements.

User currently offlineIanatstn From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 577 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 8018 times:

 wideeyed  That's a shame, I loved the sound of the 732's rocekting away from ATL during my visit in October last year, the older generation 737's have so much character...

Cheers,
Ian.



Ian@STN ::
User currently offlineB4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2661 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 7952 times:

Looks like my home market of GRR will loose DL mainline service, and thus my business.

DL Connection is not reliable in my market and I will have to choose another carrier. A shame, as a 5 year elite, most recently 3 years platinum, this hurts....



B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6731 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 7865 times:

Some of these 732 routes will be replaced by EMB170's which are as comfortable (if not more) than DL's 732's.

User currently offlineLat41 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 479 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 7835 times:

Were these the 737s that originally came from Western? How did DL come to be a 737-200 operator otherwise. I knew them to have boatloads of nice looking DC-9s over the years before the MDs came along.

User currently offlineSE210Caravelle From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 258 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 7817 times:

I think that Delta is making a smart move. Having a smaller fleet is always better, in my opinion and if the 737-200's are being replaced with EMB 170's, I am all for it.

I assume that the 732's have somewhat high operating costs to. Good for Delta!

Thanks,

S E 2 1 0 C a r a v e l l e


User currently offlineAmy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 1150 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 7787 times:

Good to see Delta making positive steps to improve their financial situation. I am sorry to see the 732s go but I am glad that Delta are making plans.


A340-300 - slow, but awesome!
User currently offline252MKR From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 7723 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 8):
Some of these 732 routes will be replaced by EMB170's which are as comfortable (if not more) than DL's 732's.

That is highly debatable. The 737 is still a bigger / heavier plane. It goes through turbulence better, and has much more room. "Seven-three" pilots who have flown multiple (73) types say the -200 is best for flying through "heavy" weather.

Quoting SE210Caravelle (Reply 10):
I assume that the 732's have somewhat high operating costs to. Good for Delta!

Of course the 170 has lower operating costs. It is basically a Lou Dobbs-eaque "outsourcing" plane.

1) PLANES are much cheaper to make in Brazil--than in SEATAC. Labor is a fraction of the cost, there is much less environmental regulation, and there is no Sarbanes-Oxley legislation in Brazil--allowing "free-wheeling" of business.

2) AIRLINE LABOR is cheaper: The subcontracting airlines operating the 170's pay their labor a fraction of what the 73-2 mainline is getting. I know a pilot on a 170 right who's last-per diem check was larger then her take home pay in the same pay period. This is indentured servitude.

3) LET SOMEONE ELSE PAY: Why buy an airplane and carry the capital costs for an asset which comes close to having real depreciation that outpaces tax depreciation (how much is a 7 year old EMB 140 with 14000 cycles worth?)

The aviation cliche' (of picking two concepts among: Comfort, Safety, and Cost) seems eternally true.



"...If I'm here, and you're here--doesn't that make it our time?" Jeff Spicoli
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5231 posts, RR: 21
Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 7703 times:

Quoting Lat41 (Reply 9):

Were these the 737s that originally came from Western?

Some may have, not sure. But DL ordered a batch from Boeing in the 80's. I was quite surprised at the time, since they had DC-9-30's and I believe the 737-300 was being offered at the time. It was one of the last orders for the -200.



The best IFE: A window seat and a good book.
User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4525 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 7685 times:

Delta's buying the E170? Or is Delta Connection? I hadn't heard of this.


Sad to see the 732s go. Without a doubt my favourite of the 737 series...and certianly the one with the most personality.

737NGs with winglets are cool too but nothing beats a 732. Plus I've heard it's the most enjoyable of the 737s to fly. But that's just hearsay. I'm going to miss it about as much as I miss the 727.


User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 7614 times:

Quoting B4real (Reply 7):
Looks like my home market of GRR will loose DL mainline service, and thus my business.

You're in Grand Rapids. What do you expect?


User currently offlineDL763DFW From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 7538 times:

I don't know when the 762s are set to retire - I do know for a fact though that Ship 102 "The Spirit of Delta" will be retired to the old Delta hangar alongside the DC-3 and Travelair. I'm not sure if they'll keep her flying like the other two, but at least it wont be scrapped or sold to someone else. I'd imagine the cost of keeping a single 25 year old 762 airworthy for photo ops and airshows is far greater than a DC-3 or a Travelair. But then again, we're the largest 767 airframe operator in the world, so I'm sure we have a plethora of spare parts sitting around to keep her flying for years to come.

[Edited 2005-03-19 18:28:02]

User currently offlineDocchaos From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 7502 times:

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 14):
Delta's buying the E170? Or is Delta Connection? I hadn't heard of this.

Republic Airways (Parent company of RP) will become another DLConx Carrier, operating 16 E170s.

Comair is also trying to obtain financing to purchase more 70 seat jets. At this point Comair's president feels that the E170 is the a/c of the future, but he has said that Comair will pursue whatever a/c the companies will sell at a better cost (E170 or CR7). Comair's pilots have agreed to a "Pay-Freeze" for two years, and in return Comair will be acquiring 35 new jets. (Mostly 70s, but some CRJs) And if financing falls through, so will the pay freeze. It's all to compete with the other DLConx carriers, providing better service with a competitive cost structure.

DocChaos


User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 7402 times:

Quoting B4real (Reply 7):
Looks like my home market of GRR will loose DL mainline service, and thus my business

Don't necessarily assume that. When DL mainline was re-introduced into GRR it was with a M88. Back then all the 732's were still with Delta Express. Not to mention there still will be 35 or so still flying through to 2006.



It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 7356 times:

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 18):
Don't necessarily assume that. When DL mainline was re-introduced into GRR it was with a M88. Back then all the 732's were still with Delta Express. Not to mention there still will be 35 or so still flying through to 2006.

Well, when you look at the online timetable data (assuming it's up to date) for any day in July, the 732 will be gone, having been replaced by a CR7.


User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 7298 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 19):
Well, when you look at the online timetable data (assuming it's up to date) for any day in July, the 732 will be gone, having been replaced by a CR7.

I didn't, but if that is the case that decision was made before this announcement and has nothing to do with the retirement schedule. All this means now is don't look for future mainline DL service into GRR.



It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 7235 times:

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 20):
I didn't, but if that is the case that decision was made before this announcement and has nothing to do with the retirement schedule. All this means now is don't look for future mainline DL service into GRR.

Bad news, if your city is losing DL mainline, while most others are actually (re-)gaining mainline service, like PHF or BUF.


User currently offlineFLAIRPORT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 7117 times:

Quoting B4real (Reply 7):
Looks like my home market of GRR will loose DL mainline service, and thus my business.

DL Connection is not reliable in my market and I will have to choose another carrier. A shame, as a 5 year elite, most recently 3 years platinum, this hurts....

Fear not...there's always NW Big grin


User currently offlineMD11LuxuryLinr From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1385 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 6302 times:

First NW starts accelerating the retirement of the DC9, now Delta starts with the 732s..

DAMN YOU HIGH FUEL PRICES!!  hissyfit 



Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.
User currently offlineB4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2661 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 6038 times:

Quoting MD11LuxuryLinr (Reply 23):
DAMN YOU HIGH FUEL PRICES!!

Here, here.... We'd likely have 727's still flying if it wasn't for fuel. They did have the 3 person flight crew, but high fuel will aggrivate the airlines quicker.

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 22):
Fear not...there's always NW

I hear you, may go that way...

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 15):
You're in Grand Rapids. What do you expect?

Based on that type of answer, I'm going to assume you are in a big city, but for your information, Grand Rapids has around 12-15x mainline flights a day on NW.

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 14):
Delta's buying the E170? Or is Delta Connection? I hadn't heard of this.

Republic Airways is buying them to operate as DL Connection.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 8):
Some of these 732 routes will be replaced by EMB170's which are as comfortable (if not more) than DL's 732's.

Yeah, but that's still DL Connection.



B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
25 Post contains links and images September11 : Interesting photos of Delta 732: View of cockpit View Large View MediumPhoto © Ralph Duenas Views of reverse thruster View of aircraft View Large
26 Post contains images Lightsaber : The high fuel prices are spelling the end of the JT8D, specifically the earlier low bypass models (pre- MD-80). While I'm glad to see quieter aircraf
27 Tjwgrr : GRR served over 2 million passengers in 2004. The population of the greater Grand Rapids/ Holland / Muskegon area is in excess of 1 million people. T
28 B4real : Thank you Todd. I'll vote for anything now...
29 9844 : To little to late.. Should haver gotten rid of those pigs LONG ago...CHP 11 by Sept.
30 AADC10 : One of the costs of the current airline turmoil is that smaller cities will lose mainline service, particularly if the legacy carriers Chapt. 7 (liqu
31 B4real : Loosing mainline isn't my problem. It's the execution of the regional ops @ my home airport. I actually prefer some elements of regional ops. Specifi
32 VgnAtl747 : Docchaos is correct, our President has been very up front that this new purchase will really help OH to compete with other carriers both inside and o
33 Post contains images Malaysia : The horror the horror, I miss flying the DL 737-200 in First class CVG-DCA oh those days (just a year ago) I cannot stand those posted thrust reverse
34 PPVRA : While labor costs are lower, I'm not sure how helpful our over tax burden system helps out Embraer much. And trust me, the "much less environmental r
35 CTHEWORLD : The title of this thread just seems weird, Early? Earlier than what, NWA and DC-9? I don't think 2005 is "early" to retire a -200!
36 DL763DFW : Earlier than Delta originally planned to retire their 732s. They just upped the schedule of doing so. Also, the 732s that DL owns were some of the las
37 252MKR : PPVRA, Highly amusing post! You are correct in calling me out on my sometimes overly sweeping generalizations. If you can not get to sleep some night,
38 707437 : Most of the 732s are leased so its now just a return. Operating 732s, 733s, 738s MD-83s and MD-90s and 757s all together is just a bad business plan.
39 B4real : I may have spoken too harsh too soon. Had a very nice experience this morning on a flight. Since this post came online Saturday, I've put DL under th
40 DAL767400ER : More like in 10 years earliest. I'll go by airline: AA: Some 360 MD-80s. If replace at a rate of 3 per month, it would take 10 years to replace them
41 Gr8SlvrFlt : Does this mean more layoffs? I don't believe there are any new aircraft deliveries this year or next.
42 DAL767400ER : No, there will be no more layoffs besides the 6,900 already announced last year. And while DL itself doesn't have any planes on order until 2007, CHQ
43 SESGDL : DAL767400ER, I recall that DL has 737-800s on order for 2006 that haven't been cancelled. Have those been cancelled or does DL still intend to receive
44 DAL767400ER : I'm not really sure about DL's 738 delivery dates. What I am sure about is that the majority of them will be delivered in 2007, 36 total I believe, a
45 Tjwgrr : Rick- an interesting side note: ASA 716 (DL 4716) GRR-ATL was cancelled early yesterday (Sunday) morning. Flight departed GRR but was forced to retur
46 KFLLCFII : IIRC, the Hispanic name that I heard for the 732 is "La Chanchita"...maybe one of our Spanish-speaking friends can verify...
47 B4real : Chancita=Little pig
48 Brons2 : Pilots talking about Sarbanes-Oxley? LOL!!! You're out of your league here, bud. For a company with a well run IT department, Sarbanes-Oxley is not m
49 B4real : I gave some more thought to this... For my market, its starting to make sense. I think Fred Buttrell was appointed chief @ Comair to make it 'sellable
50 DeltaMIA : That really wouldn't have anything to do with it. The only stations where OH handles mainline flights are GRR, BUF, MHT, and MDW. PHF, MYR, GPT, VPS
51 DALMD88 : DL has 10 738 on order for the third and fourth quarters of 06. We get 3 a month in 07.
52 Docchaos : In TYS the ramp run by OH employees, and ticketing/gate is run by DL. That is the only other station I can remember off the top of my head that does
53 Post contains images Thrust : This should help DL with their operating costs. Keeping the 732s around in the state that they are in is suicide, especially with the fuel prices. The
54 Jetpixx : I flew through CVG earlier this morning and it was chock full of 732s still. If you want to see them before they go, fly through Cincinnati's nice air
55 Post contains images ARCJET : Does this mean Mainline days are numbered at Columbia, SC, one of the original cities from Delta's first route from August 1934? If only C.E. Woolman
56 United_Fan : There are 2 enroute to VCV today out of ATL.
57 Milesrich : The 737-232A may have "higher" operating costs, but on a passenger per seat mile basis, is the ERJ-170 less expensive to operate. I believe that the C
58 DAL767400ER : So what? Other cities on DL's first route have lost mainline service years ago, like JAN, AEX or MLU. It's better than being dropped altogether.
59 FlyPNS1 : JAN still has mainline service on DL to ATL.
60 Post contains images DAL767400ER : My mistake. Somehow I mixed up JAN with SHV .
61 Post contains images United_Fan : I gotta get my a$$ to BUF to get a shot of the one to/from CVG before they're gone Here's another enroute to VCV..... Airline Delta Air Lines Flight N
62 777STL : At least he would still be able to see it. Howard Hughes wouldn't be so lucky....
63 ARCJET : AEX was not on the orginial route DAL - SHV- MLU- JAN - BHM - ATL - AGS - CAE - CHS
64 ATCT : I have many flights aboard the DL 732's as an old employee and pax alike. I love the aircraft as both a pax. and ramp rat perspective. Its a great old
65 B4real : ATCT I love the 732 as well. I think f/c and coach are more comfortable on the 732 than on the MD-88 and MD-90. Nice sized bins as well inside.
66 Cleared2Land4 : THats good I HATE THE 732s they are old and dirty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
67 Post contains images DAYflyer : I guess it will hapen just as soon as they are all in chapter 7 or 11. DL has waited too long to consolodate fleet types. I understand the logic of b
68 Dalmd88 : We had orders for 737-300 and MD90s back before the Pan Am buy out. These two aircraft were to be the future narrow body fleet. After the Pan Am buy o
69 B4real : I did a quick couple of spottings here, and I found that the following routes will lose DL mainline service bi-directionally: CVG-BHM CVG-GRR CVG-STL
70 DeltaMIA : Actually CVG-MIA is losing mainline service. The schedules just haven't been finalized after 08/31/05 (the date of the last MIA-CVG mainline flight).
71 DAL767400ER : By that number, CVG is indeed going the way of DFW. After the "Regionaljetization" by DL, the relation between mainline and RJs was roughly 1:4. At C
72 B4real : DAL767400ER: Is that ratio on number of seats, or number of flights?
73 DAL767400ER : That ratio is based on the number of flights. Don't know about the seat number ratio though.
74 B4real : I think the ratio to the number of seats is a stronger speaking stat. Though, that is a much tougher one to calcuate. If I get some time this weekend,
75 Jetpixx : I got a few nice photos of the 732 at CVG earlier this week. It will be a shame to see them go. Check out my personal website (see profile) if interes
76 1011 : I will miss the 732. I feel much safer in a 732 over an RJ. Look at the incidents on the RJs, they have a lot of engine problems. You have engine prob
77 DAL767400ER : Sounds like a good idea. I might do the same for ATL, as a "positive example". Only problem is that from the standard .pdf timetable it is not visibl
78 Bmacleod : I think "early" for the 737-200 would be in the past decade. Most other major airlines have already retired their 732s. AC retired its ZIP 732s just l
79 SESGDL : Bmacleod, Yes, but UA also received some of theirs in the late 1960s, DL's last 73S was delivered in 1987, that's relatively new. Jeremy
80 DALMD88 : The 737-200/300 are not our oldest aircraft. The 767-200 and some of the 757 are older. Some of our MD-88 are about the same age.
81 WGW2707 : Delta's 737-200s are likeable aircraft, with the slightly drab atmosphere of a commuter train. I take it then no word has come out what the other thre
82 DAL767400ER : Not completely. The 733s and 762s will be two of the three others, or most likely even all three of them, if DL makes a difference between their diff
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