LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13860 posts, RR: 17 Posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 17174 times:
A male passanger on a LAX-JFK flight on AA Friday night (March 18th), died after a struggle with other passangers. He apparently was intoxicated, was harassing and physically threating the F/A's, some other male pax restrined him twice, and upon the 2nd restraining of him, he died. An investigation is in process. I learned of this from a Channel 4/NBC NYC TV 6 pm news report. I'll try to find out more about this. Anybody else whom has heard of this with further info, please add to this post. Thank you.
UA777222 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3348 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 15344 times:
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 6): restrain him properly, cuffs, duct tape, etc and there'd be no need to restrain him twice. . . . hammer his ass upon landing. Simple as that.
two way street hero.
I see too much getting in the way of that happening. Not only would it require the f/a to over power the passenger there is too much all wrapped up in it all. In the same situation the pissed off passenger can take those tools and use them against the cabin crew and passengers. Force, false imprisonment, and other claims can all take the airline to court be it the airlines fault or not. If the passengers use their judgment and feel that the passenger is being unruly and needs to be detained they will do so. Not saying its the passengers job to secure the cabins but a lot of trust and judgment is left in the hands of the passengers.
It's the same passengers who help detain others that are expected to know their limits and know that alt. and other in-flight conditions can play a role in their attitude. It's b/c of all these reasons there aren't guns in the cabin and its b/c of these issues Air marshals are used. There is a possibility that one was aboard and was struggling with the passenger but until a formal report is given a lot is up in the air.
It's sad when airlines have to limit the amount of security they can offer due to lawsuits and possible danger. Hell it's sad any security is needed!
Aa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 15017 times:
99% of flyers drink responsibly. There is no reason to ban all alcohol on flights because 1% of the flying community that drinks can't hold their booze. To suggest banning alcohol on flights is asinine.
The easiest solution to this is have a inflight plan of action incase a passenger becomes intoxicated and then unruly. Through a straight-jacket on the guy, but don't take a right away from all the sane passengers.
Tiger119 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1919 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 14933 times:
Mariner, I just added you to my respected users list (and I don't do that often). I totally agree with you.
First, if someone is boarding the aircraft that is impaired, deny him or her boarding. If someone on board is getting to the point to where he or she is becoming impaired (or obnoxious, or being rude, or a pain in the a$$), cut him or her off. I have been flying on commercial airplanes since I was in knickers and I have yet to be on a plane where there was a passenger causing problems (alcohol related or other-wise). These incidents don't happen that often, just when it does happen, it's newsworthy to some people. And as far as banning alcohol on flights, I believe there would be a large number of unhappy campers. I fly several times a year and I like to have a couple of light beers on the flight, for several reasons. I don't cause any problems, I stay out of the way, I only ask for one when the flight attendant has time, not when they are busy doing something else.
As far as the law suits, I'm sure someone will file a lawsuit (in the US, anyone can file a law suit against anyone else for what ever reason he or she wants, the big deal comes down on what the judge decides to do with the law suit). Hopefully the judges will just toss the law suits out as being frivolous.
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13860 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 12971 times:
Thanks for the link Indio66. The synopis for if the link goes dead:
3/18/05 - AA Flt. 4 - LAX-JFK - B-767
The person whom died was William Lee, 48, from Brooklyn, NY. He worked in the clothing business. He did have an asthma condition. Lee did have some drinks on the flight, and got agitated when in the last hour on the flight his request for a drink was delayed/refused. He then got agitated, threating violence toward an F/A and moving toward the cockpit. Apparently he ws angry due to a problem with a relationship. Seven (7) members of an international rugby team restrained him, placed plastic handcuffs on him. He continued to be agitated and the 7 pax took him to the gallery area to restrain him as the flight made an expidited priority landing at JFK. The Port Authority police and the NYC Queens County District Attorney is investigating possible criminal charges. It is unclear if he died on the a/c or after he left it or how much his restraint by the 7 men was involved with his death. He leaves behind a wife and elderly mother. The wife is very angry as to how this happened, that he was a churchgoing man, not a heavy drinker and at the way AA handled this and info about it for her.
This situation seems to be similar to where a pax went wild on a WN flight Dallas in August 2000 (?) and other pax on the flight restrained him and broke his neck in the process. Nobody was ever proscuted or charged after an investigation.
NonRevKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 12708 times:
Quoting Tiger119 (Reply 15): If someone on board is getting to the point to where he or she is becoming impaired (or obnoxious, or being rude, or a pain in the a$$), cut him or her off.
Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 21): Lee did have some drinks on the flight, and got agitated when in the last hour on the flight his request for a drink was delayed/refused. He then got agitated, threating violence toward an F/A and moving toward the cockpit.
Oh yeah! Just "cut them off"! That solves everything!
And no, this is not "rare", this is all too common. Unless you've been a flight attendant, you have no clue.
A ban on alcohol, at least in coach, on domestic US flights up to 5 hours would be great. If you dont think you can go that long without a drink, hey...If you can't get help at Charter, please get help somewhere...
Waterpolodan From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1672 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 12309 times:
This sounds eerily similar to the one episode of CSI las vegas that I've ever watched... If I remember correctly, a passenger had some kind of medical condition that caused him to act very aggressive and it seemed like he was trying to open the cabin door in flight (obviously impossible, but the average viewer doesn't know that) so the other passengers attacked him and beat him to death... the csi people tried to find enough evidence to convict them of murder, but I think they all got off. Interesting parallel.
Spike From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1170 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 12057 times:
What a mad scared country the US has become. If some guy wants another double scotch (let alone a beer to go with it), Asian airlines FAs smile, ask if they would like nuts too, and then go do their job in bringing it over. The poor guy needed some calm after a bust-up in a relationship, not attitude.
Mrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 11951 times:
Spike, you are back! I was missing you
I completely agree.. in the future, consumption of alcohol on board might be seen as an offense, leading to an FAA inquiry and corresponsing imprisonment in Guantanamo... - is some peole don't behave after drinking alc on board, this does not mean that this should be banned at all...
Schipholjfk From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 11780 times:
Quoting Mariner (Reply 13): Oh, get over yourselves, the pair of you. Alcohol has been served on planes since the dawn of flying - I would imagine Wilbur and Orville had a bottle standing by.
Just curious... why is it so difficult for people to give up alcohol for few hours while flying. People refrain from smoking or having sex on the plane or picking nose in public... why is it then so difficult to give up alcohol for few hours when flying? Alcohol dehydrates you and is really not the ideal drink when you are up in the sky. Besides look at some of the unruly behavior it creates that sometimes jeopardize the safety of other passengers. So what is wrong with water or other beverages for few lousy hours? You can be drunk as much as you want as soon as you land... is that so difficult?
Spike From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1170 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 11600 times:
I've long viewed an aeroplane as a flying pub that is both exciting and takes you somewhere new from where you were. Drinking on-board adds to that relexed excitement and calms the nerves of many in a non-smoking environment.
But I do agree, in the US average flight times are so short that you should be able to forego that 'landing beer'. But to be attacked by an "international rugby team of seven" - who must have surely been heading to HK for the 7s btw, and then DIE is quite insame. Poor guy. Siounds like a bad situation handeled badly so i would guess the airline is at fault here.
AC345 From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 11461 times:
Quoting Waterpolodan (Reply 25): This sounds eerily similar to the one episode of CSI las vegas that I've ever watched
That's exactly what I was thinking. In that episode the guy was acting like a jerk, but the reason behind that was that he had encephalitis, which caused the behaviour problems. I know that hypoglycemia in diabetics causes them to become agitated and belligerent before they pass out.
In this case we don't know exactly what happened. The amount of alcohol (two beers and a vodka) he ingested, especially in a man of his size, shouldn't have been a problem. Maybe the alcohol interacted with the asthma medication, or some other medication he might have been taking. It sounds like the fight precipitated an asthma attack (or a heart attack), and the passenger died before anybody could do anything about it. Sad story in any case.
: Has nobody noticed that he told folks that he was despondent over "the breakup with a GIRLFRIEND", yet his WIFE was quoted in the article? And quoted
: Funny how the people who see banning alcohol as a "breach of their rights" (blah blah blah) tend to be in the "21-25" age group. I am totally in favor
: Simple reason for my screename. This is on a regualr basis although not always at this level. Liquor should be banned from flights along with trash. K
: How moralistic can you get!? I suppose you can prove his wife was Mrs. Faithull just waiting at home? How do you know if the girlfriend trouble is not
: My goodness. If you hate your job and the flying public so much, do us all a favor - find another job. If you are as old as your profile says then yo
: Oy.. that's horrible. Isn't there some kind of restraining devise or something f/As can use on DPs? (disgruntled pax)
: I saw this episode too and thought the same thing you did. The CSI team did find enough evidence to charge the passengers but knew that any post 9-11
: I expect bilge like that from AnnoyingF/A but I thought Airlinelover was smarter than that . . . . I understand that most people who drink on flights
: Spike... the same thing happened on Southwest a few years ago. An unruly pax was restrained by other pax on a LAS-SJC flight and died of suffocation.
: Schipholjfk: It isn't so difficult. I gave up smoking six months ago, and I gave up drinking, except on special occasions - - such as my recent flight
: As a former American Airlines ticket, gate and operations agent for many years, I have just a few comments on this story that I would like to make. I
: Just as on any vessel, and aircraft alike, the Captain is responsable for EVERY PERSON onboard his/her ship. The aircrews have authority under the Cap
: Very well put TravelCMH, and a touch of sanity appears in the thread. Along with an obvious understanding of the many differrent reasons for such a tr
: I agree.. and don't forget, they didn't know why he was in LA..
: I must agree...Why do we have to try to regulate self-control?? If the passenger couldn't control himself, why should the rest of the public be restr
: TravelCMH, I was going to write a long message on this thread, but basically you've summed up pretty much everything I wanted to say (albeit with a lo
: Alcohol by nature does not cause people to act crazy, it is a depressant that makes people calm. Coincidentally, many humans still have hangups about
: It`s a pity the rugby team didn`t fly September 11th!!!!!
: No, that'd be a flight on Air Canada. ooooooooh HAHA (just kidding, everyone don't kill me) 1011yyz
: Reading this article convinces me that humanity needs another forty days and forty nights and one ark. The egregious number of people who have condemn