LTBEWR From United States, joined Jan 2004, 9347 posts, RR: 7 Posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 12076 times:
A male passanger on a LAX-JFK flight on AA Friday night (March 18th), died after a struggle with other passangers. He apparently was intoxicated, was harassing and physically threating the F/A's, some other male pax restrined him twice, and upon the 2nd restraining of him, he died. An investigation is in process. I learned of this from a Channel 4/NBC NYC TV 6 pm news report. I'll try to find out more about this. Anybody else whom has heard of this with further info, please add to this post. Thank you.
Zippyjet From United States, joined Sep 2001, 2503 posts, RR: 15 Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 10952 times:
Can't wait to see the lawsuits over this one... as ridiculous as it will undoubtedly be.
It's gonna be a photo finish to see who screws with AA, the flight crew and their passengers.
If that plane only had a button to eject rubbish in midair!
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 10928 times:
Does anyone have any facts to confirm that the event actually happened? I've looked at sites for NY/LA papers and TV stations, and there's no mention at all.
UA777222 From United States, joined Dec 2003, 2836 posts, RR: 17 Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 10246 times:
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 6): restrain him properly, cuffs, duct tape, etc and there'd be no need to restrain him twice. . . . hammer his ass upon landing. Simple as that.
two way street hero.
I see too much getting in the way of that happening. Not only would it require the f/a to over power the passenger there is too much all wrapped up in it all. In the same situation the pissed off passenger can take those tools and use them against the cabin crew and passengers. Force, false imprisonment, and other claims can all take the airline to court be it the airlines fault or not. If the passengers use their judgment and feel that the passenger is being unruly and needs to be detained they will do so. Not saying its the passengers job to secure the cabins but a lot of trust and judgment is left in the hands of the passengers.
It's the same passengers who help detain others that are expected to know their limits and know that alt. and other in-flight conditions can play a role in their attitude. It's b/c of all these reasons there aren't guns in the cabin and its b/c of these issues Air marshals are used. There is a possibility that one was aboard and was struggling with the passenger but until a formal report is given a lot is up in the air.
It's sad when airlines have to limit the amount of security they can offer due to lawsuits and possible danger. Hell it's sad any security is needed!
Mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 13593 posts, RR: 93 Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 10244 times:
Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 11): Alcohol SHOULD be banned from flights AND airports..
Oh, get over yourselves, the pair of you. Alcohol has been served on planes since the dawn of flying - I would imagine Wilbur and Orville had a bottle standing by.
Yes, there is the occasional "incident". When you deal with the travelling public there are always "incidents", ask any CSA, and if you can't handle those, you're not all that good at your jobs.
The point of running an airline is for the benefit of the passengers, not to make the flight attendants lives a whole lot easier.
Aa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks ago) and read 9919 times:
99% of flyers drink responsibly. There is no reason to ban all alcohol on flights because 1% of the flying community that drinks can't hold their booze. To suggest banning alcohol on flights is asinine.
The easiest solution to this is have a inflight plan of action incase a passenger becomes intoxicated and then unruly. Through a straight-jacket on the guy, but don't take a right away from all the sane passengers.
Tiger119 From United States, joined Sep 2003, 1788 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks ago) and read 9835 times:
Mariner, I just added you to my respected users list (and I don't do that often). I totally agree with you.
First, if someone is boarding the aircraft that is impaired, deny him or her boarding. If someone on board is getting to the point to where he or she is becoming impaired (or obnoxious, or being rude, or a pain in the a$$), cut him or her off. I have been flying on commercial airplanes since I was in knickers and I have yet to be on a plane where there was a passenger causing problems (alcohol related or other-wise). These incidents don't happen that often, just when it does happen, it's newsworthy to some people. And as far as banning alcohol on flights, I believe there would be a large number of unhappy campers. I fly several times a year and I like to have a couple of light beers on the flight, for several reasons. I don't cause any problems, I stay out of the way, I only ask for one when the flight attendant has time, not when they are busy doing something else.
As far as the law suits, I'm sure someone will file a lawsuit (in the US, anyone can file a law suit against anyone else for what ever reason he or she wants, the big deal comes down on what the judge decides to do with the law suit). Hopefully the judges will just toss the law suits out as being frivolous.
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
ANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks ago) and read 9830 times:
Quoting UA777222 (Reply 12): I see too much getting in the way of that happening. Not only would it require the f/a to over power the passenger there is too much all wrapped up in it all.
I never said the F/A had to do it - I made a general statement, anyone can restrain the asshole . . . if I'm on board, I'll be glad to . . . arm bar, floor meets face, duct tape meets wrist, next?
Quoting UA777222 (Reply 12): Force, false imprisonment, and other claims can all take the airline to court be it the airlines fault or not.
Rather be judged by the jury than carried by the pallbearers if this asshole 'really' gets unruly.
Quoting Mariner (Reply 13): Oh, get over yourselves, the pair of you. Alcohol has been served on planes since the dawn of flying - I would imagine Wilbur and Orville had a bottle standing by.
Yes, there is the occasional "incident". When you deal with the travelling public there are always "incidents", ask any CSA, and if you can't handle those, you're not all that good at your jobs.
Couldn't have said that better if I'd said it meself!
I expect bilge like that from AnnoyingF/A but I thought Airlinelover was smarter than that . . . .
ACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 6881 posts, RR: 50 Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks ago) and read 9816 times:
Banning alcohol on flights? Great idea, lets make flying even more unappealing! Aren't the airlines loosing enough money as it is? What's next, restraining pax if they ask for a second orange juice?
LTBEWR From United States, joined Jan 2004, 9347 posts, RR: 7 Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7873 times:
Thanks for the link Indio66. The synopis for if the link goes dead:
3/18/05 - AA Flt. 4 - LAX-JFK - B-767
The person whom died was William Lee, 48, from Brooklyn, NY. He worked in the clothing business. He did have an asthma condition. Lee did have some drinks on the flight, and got agitated when in the last hour on the flight his request for a drink was delayed/refused. He then got agitated, threating violence toward an F/A and moving toward the cockpit. Apparently he ws angry due to a problem with a relationship. Seven (7) members of an international rugby team restrained him, placed plastic handcuffs on him. He continued to be agitated and the 7 pax took him to the gallery area to restrain him as the flight made an expidited priority landing at JFK. The Port Authority police and the NYC Queens County District Attorney is investigating possible criminal charges. It is unclear if he died on the a/c or after he left it or how much his restraint by the 7 men was involved with his death. He leaves behind a wife and elderly mother. The wife is very angry as to how this happened, that he was a churchgoing man, not a heavy drinker and at the way AA handled this and info about it for her.
This situation seems to be similar to where a pax went wild on a WN flight Dallas in August 2000 (?) and other pax on the flight restrained him and broke his neck in the process. Nobody was ever proscuted or charged after an investigation.
NonRevKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7610 times:
Quoting Tiger119 (Reply 15): If someone on board is getting to the point to where he or she is becoming impaired (or obnoxious, or being rude, or a pain in the a$$), cut him or her off.
Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 21): Lee did have some drinks on the flight, and got agitated when in the last hour on the flight his request for a drink was delayed/refused. He then got agitated, threating violence toward an F/A and moving toward the cockpit.
Oh yeah! Just "cut them off"! That solves everything!
And no, this is not "rare", this is all too common. Unless you've been a flight attendant, you have no clue.
A ban on alcohol, at least in coach, on domestic US flights up to 5 hours would be great. If you dont think you can go that long without a drink, hey...If you can't get help at Charter, please get help somewhere...
Indio66 From United States, joined Mar 2004, 451 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7374 times:
There is a head shot of the passenger in the print edition of the Post, and he looks like a big boy. If I had to guess, I would say he's at least 275 pounds.
If he got out of control and tried to storm the cockpit (indeed, as the plane was getting close to NYC), then its hard to feel sorry for him.
KBOS From United States, joined Nov 2003, 374 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7371 times:
"He was never a big drinker," Lee's wife, Meena, told The Post about her church going husband. "He was never violent. That's the reason I don't believe it."
Lee, who had told the Boeing 767 cabin crew he was despondent over a breakup with his girlfriend....
sure sounds like a good "church going" husband......
Take this plane anywhere girls are going wild......
Waterpolodan From United States, joined Feb 2005, 1305 posts, RR: 10 Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7211 times:
This sounds eerily similar to the one episode of CSI las vegas that I've ever watched... If I remember correctly, a passenger had some kind of medical condition that caused him to act very aggressive and it seemed like he was trying to open the cabin door in flight (obviously impossible, but the average viewer doesn't know that) so the other passengers attacked him and beat him to death... the csi people tried to find enough evidence to convict them of murder, but I think they all got off. Interesting parallel.
Spike From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1170 posts, RR: 8 Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6959 times:
What a mad scared country the US has become. If some guy wants another double scotch (let alone a beer to go with it), Asian airlines FAs smile, ask if they would like nuts too, and then go do their job in bringing it over. The poor guy needed some calm after a bust-up in a relationship, not attitude.
Mrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6853 times:
Spike, you are back! I was missing you
I completely agree.. in the future, consumption of alcohol on board might be seen as an offense, leading to an FAA inquiry and corresponsing imprisonment in Guantanamo... - is some peole don't behave after drinking alc on board, this does not mean that this should be banned at all...
Schipholjfk From United States, joined Jan 2005, 579 posts, RR: 9 Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6682 times:
Quoting Mariner (Reply 13): Oh, get over yourselves, the pair of you. Alcohol has been served on planes since the dawn of flying - I would imagine Wilbur and Orville had a bottle standing by.
Just curious... why is it so difficult for people to give up alcohol for few hours while flying. People refrain from smoking or having sex on the plane or picking nose in public... why is it then so difficult to give up alcohol for few hours when flying? Alcohol dehydrates you and is really not the ideal drink when you are up in the sky. Besides look at some of the unruly behavior it creates that sometimes jeopardize the safety of other passengers. So what is wrong with water or other beverages for few lousy hours? You can be drunk as much as you want as soon as you land... is that so difficult?
Spike From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1170 posts, RR: 8 Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6502 times:
I've long viewed an aeroplane as a flying pub that is both exciting and takes you somewhere new from where you were. Drinking on-board adds to that relexed excitement and calms the nerves of many in a non-smoking environment.
But I do agree, in the US average flight times are so short that you should be able to forego that 'landing beer'. But to be attacked by an "international rugby team of seven" - who must have surely been heading to HK for the 7s btw, and then DIE is quite insame. Poor guy. Siounds like a bad situation handeled badly so i would guess the airline is at fault here.
AC345 From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 197 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6363 times:
Quoting Waterpolodan (Reply 25): This sounds eerily similar to the one episode of CSI las vegas that I've ever watched
That's exactly what I was thinking. In that episode the guy was acting like a jerk, but the reason behind that was that he had encephalitis, which caused the behaviour problems. I know that hypoglycemia in diabetics causes them to become agitated and belligerent before they pass out.
In this case we don't know exactly what happened. The amount of alcohol (two beers and a vodka) he ingested, especially in a man of his size, shouldn't have been a problem. Maybe the alcohol interacted with the asthma medication, or some other medication he might have been taking. It sounds like the fight precipitated an asthma attack (or a heart attack), and the passenger died before anybody could do anything about it. Sad story in any case.
Wjcandee From United States, joined Jun 2000, 3753 posts, RR: 20 Reply 25, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6316 times:
Has nobody noticed that he told folks that he was despondent over "the breakup with a GIRLFRIEND", yet his WIFE was quoted in the article? And quoted to say how churchgoing he was?
Oh...wait...is that what KBOS was talking about? Well...in any event, now THAT'S funny!
26 FLY2LIM: Funny how the people who see banning alcohol as a "breach of their rights" (blah blah blah) tend to be in the "21-25" age group. I am totally in favor
27 UAMAYBACH1239: Simple reason for my screename. This is on a regualr basis although not always at this level. Liquor should be banned from flights along with trash. K
28 Spike: How moralistic can you get!? I suppose you can prove his wife was Mrs. Faithull just waiting at home? How do you know if the girlfriend trouble is not
29 Mojo89: My goodness. If you hate your job and the flying public so much, do us all a favor - find another job. If you are as old as your profile says then yo
30 Airgeek12: Oy.. that's horrible. Isn't there some kind of restraining devise or something f/As can use on DPs? (disgruntled pax)
31 Skaggs: I saw this episode too and thought the same thing you did. The CSI team did find enough evidence to charge the passengers but knew that any post 9-11
32 Airlinelover: I expect bilge like that from AnnoyingF/A but I thought Airlinelover was smarter than that . . . . I understand that most people who drink on flights
33 QQflyboy: Spike... the same thing happened on Southwest a few years ago. An unruly pax was restrained by other pax on a LAS-SJC flight and died of suffocation.
34 Mariner: Schipholjfk: It isn't so difficult. I gave up smoking six months ago, and I gave up drinking, except on special occasions - - such as my recent flight
35 TravelCMH: As a former American Airlines ticket, gate and operations agent for many years, I have just a few comments on this story that I would like to make. I
36 TomFoolery: Just as on any vessel, and aircraft alike, the Captain is responsable for EVERY PERSON onboard his/her ship. The aircrews have authority under the Cap
37 Skidmarks: Very well put TravelCMH, and a touch of sanity appears in the thread. Along with an obvious understanding of the many differrent reasons for such a tr
38 MD11LuxuryLinr: I agree.. and don't forget, they didn't know why he was in LA..
39 Jetmek319: I must agree...Why do we have to try to regulate self-control?? If the passenger couldn't control himself, why should the rest of the public be restr
40 PMN: TravelCMH, I was going to write a long message on this thread, but basically you've summed up pretty much everything I wanted to say (albeit with a lo
41 GothamSpotter: Alcohol by nature does not cause people to act crazy, it is a depressant that makes people calm. Coincidentally, many humans still have hangups about
42 A999: It`s a pity the rugby team didn`t fly September 11th!!!!!
43 Lnglive1011yyz: No, that'd be a flight on Air Canada. ooooooooh HAHA (just kidding, everyone don't kill me) 1011yyz
44 ZID: Reading this article convinces me that humanity needs another forty days and forty nights and one ark. The egregious number of people who have condemn
46 NIKV69: I wish congress would enact a law that automatically puts any individual that disrupts any flight in US jurisdiction in jail for at least 30 days! Thi
47 LTBEWR: A local (NY City, NBC Ch. 4, 6 pm) TV news report, on Sunday gave attention to this story. Apparently the wife is very angry at the situation that led
48 FLY2LIM: With all due respect, who died and made you BILLY GRAHAM? Anyone who has responded negatively about this man is assuming the reports provided by the
49 Airgeek12: I'm kinda suprised (other) news networks didn't make a bigger deal of this. Or maybe they just don't know about it. = /
50 ZID: FLY2LIM, Don't get uppity with me sweetheart! First off, I didn't tell anyone that they weren't entitled to their warped opinions. (try actually readi
51 CTHEWORLD: Ehhhh...who cares. One less irresponsible human to clog up the system. If this were the result more often for stupid, irresponsible behavior there wou
52 Spike: I expect that is your take any any kind of grouping be it an alchoholic, gay, black, muslim etc... damn red-neck.
53 Mrniji: This thread is starting to become funny
54 Miami1: Royal Brunei Airlines follows the strictest of Muslim practices and does not serve Alcohol or allow any to be consumed - PERIOD. In the early 90s they
55 MIASkies: Sad to hear that the man died but he should have not gotten that drunk in the first place... The point of airlines offering liquor service on flights
56 HZ747300: Couldn't they have sedated him like they did Richard Ried? If there is no way to sedate him, then they should have given him some wall-to-wall counsel
57 ANCFlyer: Ha Ha - wall to wall counseling . . . haven't heard that in a while . . . used to work well on Tommy Tentpeg. Welcome to the real world - and how man
58 Thucydides: And sometimes you get some arsenic in your drink too...
60 Spike: Probably I didn't or wouldn't be typing this. Mind you, i've got plenty of flight crews back. Strange tasting scotch in the mini-bar? Week and creamy
61 JGPH1A: "Restrain" - is that a nice way of saying "beat seven kinds of crap out of him" ?
62 Spike: Anybody got any info on which rugby team this was that commited mass murder?
63 Qwerty: Unless I am wrong about this, they brothers Wright could have just taken a drink from their tank. I believe a potable alcohol was the original fuel.
64 Qqflyboy: One death does not constitute mass murder. Had the perp made it to the cockpit, then we could talk about mass murder. As far as beating the crap out o
65 A999: Fetheroleather: What I was trying to say was that if some rugby teams were flying on Sept.11 some hijackings might have been avoided! I still wonder w
66 Spike: Are shoulder/head/shin/knee/wrirst/teeth/toe/groin/nipple/neck/eye pads allowed in-flight? If not, guess a 7-pack NFL team wouldn't be much good.
67 OPNLguy: One of the things that isn't clear (from the media reports) is exactly why it was necessary for -7- rugby players to hold the guy down once the plasti
68 LTBEWR: It seemed to be per the media reports, that he continued to be agitated and resisting his restraining and the '7 rugby players' felt he needed to be k
69 OPNLguy: Well, I'm sure it will be argued that, being restrained, he was actually less of a physical threat to anyone, although I'm quite sure that the alcoho
70 FLY2LIM: ZID: It is clear from your reply that the only one who suffers from "blind stupidity" here is you. You wrote this long, very uppity, "holier than tho
71 LTBEWR: Just a follow up on this situation. Apparently this Mr. Lee was a Black/ African-American man. This may bring out his race as a factor in what happene
72 OPNLguy: I hope not. When I first read of this event, it never entered my mind (personally) as to whether the individual was black, white, or purple... Should
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