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United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!  
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 8331 times:

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2005-03-18-united-ads_x.htm

Mods: Please note that I did a thorough and exhaustive search from the past week, and could find nothing on this topic.


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4105 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 8256 times:

Now if only UA would apply some of this aggression to getting a solid emergence plan together, we'd have a healthy airline!

User currently offlineGalapagapop From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 910 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 8101 times:

This is nice to see touting of their legroom as being bigger than AA's which is not true! Economy Plus is a different section technically and its not free. Hope AA stings UAL for this one, by bringing back MRTC  Wink. UAL's economy is one of the most unbearable rides around especially on a 757. This BK thing has gotten out of control, seeing as they are allowed to pay for new ad campaigns, and lower fares. Then lose money and still not pay their creditors. They just are dying to have AA enter BK to taint their image and help make UAL's low yield-high cost claim more plausible seeing as the big 2 would be in trouble.

User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8058 times:

I think they are making much-ado about nothing. It is so transparent it's actually funny. It's like a class action lawsuit where the only people who see any money are the lawyers. This time the ad agency is the only one making money on this pitch.  butthead 


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4745 posts, RR: 45
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8058 times:

UAL isn't talking about this fact from American Airlines is it:

"American said last fall that it would be adding both First Class and coach seats to its MD80 fleet and coach seats to its other fleets. With these modifications, 82 percent of the MD80 coach seats will retain 32 inches or more of pitch and 72 percent of all of American's narrowbody fleet will have 32 inches or more."

So, 72% of all coach seats on American airlines have greater pitch than ALL of UAL's coach seats...how about that UAL?

I hope AA gives UAL a nice Bitch Slap that they deserve...



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3238 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8004 times:

Galapagapop,

I don't want to take sides, as I do fly both UA and AA and I have no problems with either. However, let's look at the facts. According to seatguru:

AA, B757, economy: 31" pitch, 17.2" width
UA, B757, economy: 31" pitch, 17" width
UA, B757, economy plus: 36" pitch, 17" width

The pitch in standard economy is the same, with AA apparently having a very slight edge on seat width (which I have personally never noticed).

Let's face it. AA is actively removing MRTC and it's highly unlikely that it will bring it back (I wish they did). With my status I can get on emergency exit rows when I fly transcons, and this makes the flights on AA more bearable (and notice that AA's B757s haven't had MRTC for some time now). However, if an emergency exit row is not available, then the rest of AA's B757s are as bad as UA's B757s (in my experience). The only thing that saves UA is the E+ section (which I can also get to) which, for me, it'd be a very good reason to choose them over AA for a long transcon (I usually do BOS-SFO).

Tony



Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7976 times:

Quoting Galapagapop (Reply 2):
Economy Plus is a different section technically and its not free

...uh, technically it's not a different section, and it is still open to any customer who wishes to be seated there. Sure, the seats are assigned to FF's, etc. first, but it is specifically stated in the flight attendant handbook that passengers should not be discouraged from moving to Y+ if they so wish. Why, you ask? Because it is not a different section.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4745 posts, RR: 45
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7912 times:

Quoting FLY777UAL (Reply 6):
...uh, technically it's not a different section, and it is still open to any customer who wishes to be seated there. Sure, the seats are assigned to FF's, etc. first, but it is specifically stated in the flight attendant handbook that passengers should not be discouraged from moving to Y+ if they so wish. Why, you ask? Because it is not a different section.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L

So you're telling me I do not need to pay extra as a non-elite FF member on UAL in order to sit in E+?

MARY PLEASE! I give you 10's accross the board cuz you look fierce! I mean Glenn Cambell fierce!



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3238 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7860 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 7):
So you're telling me I do not need to pay extra as a non-elite FF member on UAL in order to sit in E+?

Yup. He's right. I was in a BOS-SFO flight, seating on E+ seats, and someone very large ended up seating next to me and squashed me against the window for 6 hours. And, yes, he was not an FF or had paid extra. He used a pathetic excuse about his leg hurting him.

Tony



Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7855 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 7):
So you're telling me I do not need to pay extra as a non-elite FF member on UAL in order to sit in E+?

...wow, you catch on quickly.

The EasyCheckIn machines should offer the upsell option for a few extra dollars if you want to have a gold boarding pass with EconomyPlus printed on it, but there is nothing (and no one) stopping you from plopping yourself up there at any point.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L


User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4105 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7825 times:

Have you ever actually had to pay more? Have you ever even LOOKED at the prices? UA has every right to advertise this, because it's true! Of course FFs are going to get first pick, they fly UA the most, they give UA more money, doesn't it only make sense that they get the best product from UA? Not to say UA should treat other pax like crap, but give your best to those who will come back!

EconomyPlus is not a different section. There is no cost, upgrades to Y+ are complimentary if room is available. If someone with hard evidence to the contrary can prove me wrong, please do.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7816 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 7):
So you're telling me I do not need to pay extra as a non-elite FF member on UAL in order to sit in E+?

Not only do you not need to pay, or wait till you are on the plane and see if a seat is open, but you can ask for it at he counter and there is no one stopping the agent from giving you the seat.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineNCLairport From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 240 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7813 times:

I know this is sligtly off topic but whats the deal with MRTC with AA. I am flying with them in June on a transatlantic 777.... i get so many mixed messages....will i get MRTC or not? what leg room can i expect. Im sitting in the rear economy section.


Ladies and Gentlemen welcome to Newcastle
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7728 times:

Back in April of last year (before I hit US Airways Silver Preferred), United had no problem putting me in E+ on LGA-ORD-IAH-ORD-LGA, despite the fact that the price I paid for my ticket was (gasp) five extra hours of sitting in Chicago's O'Hare Airport back in December for getting bumped, and I didn't even have to ask. Heck, I even had some fun flirting with the flight attendant while on the plane (she didn't, at all, mind, despite the fact that Julian Wright, a Kanas-bound basketball player/McDonald's All-American/future NBA lottery pick, happened to be on the same flight, as it was going to one of the AAU basketball tournaments I work for when I'm not busy getting canned from the Polo Club of Boca Raton for doing my job so well that it angers the members)...unfortunately, she hasn't bothered to call back, despite me leaving my number with her... Sad


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7625 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 10):
UA has every right to advertise this, because it's true! Of course FFs are going to get first pick, they fly UA the most, they give UA more money, doesn't it only make sense that they get the best product from UA? Not to say UA should treat other pax like crap, but give your best to those who will come back!

For UA to do this is pretty rich considering how truely unpleasant UA economy-minus is; particularly on their 757's. What's worse is having to practically get on your knees and beg the CSA to let you have a seat with more legroom. Sometimes you get lucky. Other times either there are only middle seats left, or you just get a rude brush-off.

If UA were really smart they would re-distribute the seat pitches in Economy to give everyone a little bit more legroom and call the whole thing Economy-plus.

Economy plus was a dumb idea that creates yet more unnecessary travel stress for we poor unfortunates who infest UA aircraft because we travel on discount tickets. Contrary to popular belief, it's becuase we have no choice.



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7563 times:

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 14):
If UA were really smart they would re-distribute the seat pitches in Economy to give everyone a little bit more legroom and call the whole thing Economy-plus

Aah, but as AA has just shown with their MRTC experiment, the vast majority of passengers weren't willing to shell over more money for more room, hence the LRTC program which has been implemented.

If United has found that only 1/4 of its Economy Class passengers are willing to pay extra, or has found that that added little perk of three to five extra inches is a compelling enough reason for a FF to book UA over AA/DL/CO, etc., then I would say that EconomyPlus has turned out to be a great idea overall.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L


User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7495 times:

Quoting FLY777UAL (Reply 15):
Aah, but as AA has just shown with their MRTC experiment, the vast majority of passengers weren't willing to shell over more money for more room, hence the LRTC program which has been implemented

How much more money? If it's 10-15 dollars that is negligable and doesn't effect things overall. Re-distributing the seats does not mean fewer seats, just having everyone with a uniform pitch of 32-33 inches. AA was substantially more than that in the times I looked at them, and so I'm not sure the argument that customers won't pay more has necessarily been proven.

Charles, SJ



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7437 times:

And those 40% of UA's seats that are E+ make up about 70% of UA's revenue, and 99% of UA's repeat fliers.


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineSRQCrosscheck From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 211 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7353 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
Not only do you not need to pay, or wait till you are on the plane and see if a seat is open, but you can ask for it at he counter and there is no one stopping the agent from giving you the seat.

Additionally, I paid $86 one-way on UA the Wednesday before Thanksgiving (when fares on Delta, my usual choice were much higher between BOS-TPA). Originally I was in row 11 on a 733, but the equipment BOS-IAD changed to a 757, and I was grandfathered into economy plus, even though I paid a rock-bottom price for that segment. Apparently, United didn't mind giving me an Economy plus seat.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I flew United again because I was so pleased with the experience. Economy plus seems valuable to me, it keeps customers loyal.

[Edited 2005-03-23 00:44:57]

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7281 times:

Quoting SRQCrosscheck (Reply 18):
Economy plus seems valuable to me, it keeps customers loyal.

As an elite AA member, I've valued the MRTC. However, being an elite member, I can always book the emergency exit seats in advance, which have tons of room.

That being said, AA believes they can make more money by adding seats, but they fail to realise they may lose many valuable customers......maybe they've added that into their equations....but if UA comes out of chapter 11, and AA continues lowering their service, I just might switch to UA.



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3238 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7208 times:

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 14):
For UA to do this is pretty rich considering how truely unpleasant UA economy-minus is; particularly on their 757's.

I don't think it's any worse than LRTC on AA's B757s (see my reply #5 above).

Quoting FLY777UAL (Reply 15):
then I would say that EconomyPlus has turned out to be a great idea overall.

Absolutely. When AA had MRTC (which I personally loved) I would happily fly them long haul without a second thought. I did two trips on them BOS-NRT via JFK. The extra legroom was absolutely essential for the 14h JFK-NRT legs. Now, that they are removing it, I'd get out of my way to fly UA. Plain and simple. I have nothing against AA and I still fly them domestically. However, for such a long flights I'll go with the airline that will give me the most space for roughly the same money. And, in this case, it is UA.

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 14):
If UA were really smart they would re-distribute the seat pitches in Economy to give everyone a little bit more legroom and call the whole thing Economy-plus.

Like the several others who replied, I totally disagree with this. As SHUPirate1 pointed out, the FFs really appreciate the extra legroom and UA is very keen on keeping the FFs happy (and rightly so). Here's why I think E+ makes sense more than MRTC (feel free to disagree). E+ targets the ones who fly a lot, know about E+, and ask for it. And these are the ones who are more likely to create more revenue for the airline and perhaps pay a bit extra for it. However, since AA had MRTC in the entire cabin, they assumed that everyone would be willing to pay a bit more for it. I don't think this makes sense. Most people (i.e. infrequent flyers) didn't have a clue about MRTC (prove me wrong) and are not willing to pay more for anything. They just want the lowest price.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 19):
but they fail to realise they may lose many valuable customers

I personally think they will. They have definitely lost some of my business.

Tony

PS In the interests of trying to be objective I should add this: where AA have the edge over UA is in the fact that they have power outlets on some of their economy seats, whereas UA do not. I really wish UA consider adding power outlets to their E+ seats. (Yes, I know that the premium service has it; it's a tiny percentage of their fleet though).

[Edited 2005-03-23 01:41:26]


Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlineGalapagapop From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 910 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7154 times:

Quoting FLY777UAL (Reply 6):
...uh, technically it's not a different section, and it is still open to any customer who wishes to be seated there. Sure, the seats are assigned to FF's, etc. first, but it is specifically stated in the flight attendant handbook that passengers should not be discouraged from moving to Y+ if they so wish. Why, you ask? Because it is not a different section.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L

Since when have pax been discouraged to upgrade in any class for that matter? Y+, C, or F the airline is still happy no matter what. And yes it still is a different section, just not as good as F but big FF's get upgraded to it and pax can if they want to pending availability.


User currently offlineBoeing73G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7128 times:

Quoting FLY777UAL (Reply 9):
The EasyCheckIn machines should offer the upsell option for a few extra dollars if you want to have a gold boarding pass with EconomyPlus printed on it, but there is nothing (and no one) stopping you from plopping yourself up there at any point.

Can I do this when I actually book on UA's website?


User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7075 times:

Quoting Galapagapop (Reply 21):
Since when have pax been discouraged to upgrade in any class for that matter? Y+, C, or F the airline is still happy no matter what. And yes it still is a different section, just not as good as F but big FF's get upgraded to it and pax can if they want to pending availability.

As I stated in my response which you quoted, passengers should not be discouraged from moving to Y+ if they wish...that has nothing to do with being "upgraded". Y+ is in no way, shape or form considered an "upgrade" or a different section onboard the aircraft. It's still an economy seat in the United Economy class, the only difference is that FF's are seated there before customer service will begin to seat non-FF's there (hence why you don't need certificates or to actually BE a FF to sit there).

Quoting Boeing73G (Reply 22):
Can I do this when I actually book on UA's website?

IIRC, it's only a day-of upsell, so only available from the EasyCheckIn machines (perhaps based on availability?)

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3204 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7050 times:

How about this.

Why don't they both try and offer their consumer some half decent service!
It is a joke seeing UA's crap product, rubbish American's even more crap product! Come on, I DARE one of them to just start spending $5 per economy passenger on Catering!

OH BTW guys, if you think it is so expensive to do this, think of how much a lean cuisine frozen dinner costs in the supermarket. The supermarket probably buys it at about 1/2 of that rate, so do the maths and see how much it COULD costs to provide hot meals.

You could make the air fare just $3 or $4 more and pay for it..... or are American travellers so cheap that they wouldn't pay that much for a service quality increase?


25 FriendlySkies : We're that cheap and won't pay for it...so get used to it! I'm sorry our "American" airlines aren't as high-class as the rest of the world, but Ameri
26 Texan : And now for some words from The Good Doctor about UAL: "There is something in the corporate manner of United Airlines that reminds me of the Californi
27 Qantas077 : i'm taking UA business class from JFK-SYD in about 6 weeks! not sure what to expect to be honest, i know the PS flight i am on looks very spacious and
28 Lufthansa : QF77 I did it 3 weeks ago, its not so bad, as you sleep most of that flight anyway. The business class is up to scratch...its not the best but it is c
29 CTHEWORLD : I dare people to start paying $5 more for their tickets!
30 Qantas077 : got Economy Plus to the US and within the westcoast, rest is all business class so i am happy with that, as long as CH9 is working then i will sleep p
31 Galapagapop : Have you ever actually flown in UAL's cattle car coach? Because any seat pitch 33"+ on a UAL flight is an upgrade...
32 FLY777UAL : I'm thinking SFO-NRT and LHR-LAX will count for that...in the pre-EconomyPlus days, to boot. F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
33 Post contains images Tango-Bravo : As a non-elite (not even close) traveling on very low loss-leader fares with UA, I have been assigned a seat in Economy Plus (aisle seats no less) by
34 SRQCrosscheck : It actually probably costs airlines quite a bit to cater an airplane. Those meals, although they might look like lean cuisine, are definitely more ex
35 Thrust : UAL is just making that statement because AA is doing better than they are and they are trying to attract public attention by denouncing AA. They know
36 Ckfred : Here's my understanding. If you book online, you can't get E+ on UA, unless you buy an unrestricted fair or have a high-enough FF status. Absent that,
37 Texan : Catering costs a ton of money. I cannot speak for all of the airlines, but for corporate aviation you are looking at about $35.00 for a burger with f
38 SHUPirate1 : Even that isn't quite true. I booked a ticket on United, and I have US Airways Silver Preferred Status. As United can't recognize US Airways Silver P
39 ORD2PHL : This whole begging argument OR the fact that non elites cannot sit in Y+ on UA flights is a load. Before I was Premier Exec on UA, I was able to sit i
40 SHUPirate1 : ORD2PHL-Well then how come I was so unsuccessful in doing that LAST WEEK? Look, I love flying United, and I understand it was little more than a glitc
41 QQflyboy : I just wrote the following in another thread about the legroom on AA's reconfigured MD-80s: "A positive note for ya... I just flew one of the reconfig
42 N9801F : LONG overdue! AA has made completely overblown claims about its legroom for years while UA modestly offered the real deal. P.S. I like both airlines.
43 UN_B732 : $10-15 sadly, in this market, is ridiculously not negligible. CO tried raising IAH-to some florida destination fares by $1.50 for better service, and
44 Lufthansa : SRQCrosscheck When i spoke in those terms I was trying to simplfy things. A few years ago, I actually worked in administration for the world's largest
45 SRQCrosscheck : Lufthansa, Thanks for your response! You are clearly more informed in catering, seeing as you once worked for a caterer. I guess I overestimated the "
46 Post contains images Ctbarnes : I'd happily pay $6 more for quality amnities. Perhaps you should offer yourself out as a consultant to the US carriers... Charles, SJ
47 TonyBurr : I think it is great that AA is adding more First Class seats. Yes, they are used by upgrades by their highest Frequent Flyers and obviously shows AA i
48 Ckfred : N9801F: I believe AA's claims about MRTC were accurate. Before MRTC, I could only cross my legs in the First Class cabin on an MD-80. If I tried it in
49 Post contains images Ctbarnes : They also served the controversial breakfast burrito later on, which many people seemed to hate, but I did not think was all that bad. Perhaps 25 yea
50 Post contains images Aa777jr : Quoted from article... We are puzzled why United Airlines reportedly is spending an estimated $15 to $20 million to advertise a product that nearly th
51 SNATH : Ckfred, I just wanted to add one more point to your post (which was spot on BTW). I would personally be willing to pay a few bucks ($7-$10) for some h
52 SNATH : Very interesting. I wonder whether the reason why the LFs fell was something really stupid, like Expedia/Orbitz sort the flights according to price a
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