Centrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3597 posts, RR: 21 Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2503 times:
Northwest Orient was the old name to emphasis their routes to Asia. When they merged with Republic in the 1980s they dropped the orient. They expanded to Europe and the alliance with KLM started. They rebranded themselves as "Northwest Airlines". Now they just rebranded themselves as the newly funkified "NWA". YO!
They served Stockholm and Oslo for awhile. Thanks to a demand by the very large scandinavian population in Minnesota.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
Azjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3555 posts, RR: 30 Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2447 times:
Let's get this straight... NOrthwest has been Northwest since it's creation. The ORIENT was never the official name and was part of the branding strategy. THis is true despite what Geoff Jones and all the other people who have no idea of the true history of NWA are talking about.
The Northwest Orient maps of the 70's era were not altogether accurate. Routes that were authorized, but not operated were shown on the map. It's gives an idea, but not an accurate representation.
Quoting Centrair (Reply 4): They served Stockholm and Oslo for awhile. Thanks to a demand by the very large scandinavian population in Minnesota.
Since these flights ran out of BOSTON, the Scandinavian population in Minnesota was not an issue, but rather a coincidence. The VFR traffic between Scandinavia and the upper midwest of the US is Infinitesimal.
Azjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3555 posts, RR: 30 Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2402 times:
Why is everyone so hung up on this MSP and the Scandinavian deman crud? These people are the DECENDANTS of the Scandinavians... it's not like there are huge waves of immigrants clearing customs from Norway, Finland and Sweden.
There is a large Somalian population in MSP too... should NWA apply for Mogadishu route authorities?
AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 18852 posts, RR: 64 Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2394 times:
Quoting Stirling (Reply 6): The Northwest Orient maps of the 70's era were not altogether accurate.
:: shrug :: I'm not quite sure what you're referring to, since there's only one map from the 70's at that link -- Feb 1, 1974. It looks pretty accurate to me, considering the legend of flight times it corresponds to at the bottom of the page. Maybe you could point out what's incorrect on that map?
Stirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 27 Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2413 times:
ITO-PDX/SEA/ORD mapped, not operated.
HKG-SEL/OKA/TPE mapped, not operated.
SEL-OSA mapped, not operated.
GEG-GTF unmapped, operated.
BIL-BZN/FAR unmapped, operated.
PHL-MSP unmapped, operated.
IAD-SEA unmapped, operated.
CLE-DCA unmapped, operated.
CPH-MIA/ARN mapped, not operated.
OSL-BOS/GLA mapped, not operated.
JFK-GLA mapped, not operated.
JFK-SNN unmapped, operated.
PDX-SFO mapped, not operated.
MNL-SEL unmapped, operated.
GEG-BTM unmapped, operated.
1978 was the most ambiguous.
The RouteMap showed routes from LAX, SEA, MSP, ORD, BOS and JFK to Reykjavik, Glasgow, Bergen, Oslo, Goteborg, Copenhagen, Stavanger, Stockholm and Helsinki, and didn't serve one. In addition, the map was filled with more non-operated routes to Hawai'i, Asia and domestically.
PAA redrew from Scandinavia in early 90´s, not 80´s, flew PA A313 ARN-JFK late 1990!
DL had flights to ARN til late 90´s IIRC.
No, Northwest Orient gained Pan Am's Scandinavia route rights in the very late 1970s. It initially began service to Stockholm and Copenhagen in 1979.
Pan Am did not return to Scandinavia until the mid 80s, initially making use of European based B737,B727s. Eventually it did operate, A310s directly across the pond to Scandinavia by the late 80s. This is what Delta took over.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Stirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 27 Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2172 times:
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 11): Maybe we're looking at two different things. The link I posted has route maps for Feb 1974 and June 1986. None of the dates you're comparing routes to mapped/unmapped/operated/not operated are listed.
We are, and we aren't
The same anomalies applied to the posted maps, I only hoped to express that the route maps of NW, no matter the year, were not always the best way to judge the actual flying that went on. To get a clearer understanding of the NW network, one must extrapolate the schedule information and go from there. That has been my hobby over the years, deciphering the squiggly lines of airlines into true representations of the route networks they operated.
But nothing came close to the mess of Continental in the 70's. Like I've mentioned before, Robert Six was obsessed with being a bigger airline than what he actually was. In those route maps of the 70's, it looked like every city in the system was connected to every other city with a nonstop flight:
This map is a fine example of what I'm talking about.
Continental never flew the MSY-OKC route, or SEA-ICT, but they were plotted on the map. Each station of any size in the system, had these wonderfully intricate 6" by 4" wire maps mounted on the walls behind the check-in counters. They didn't change. I saw one for sale once that used to be housed at the ABQ station for a mere $2000USD. But definitely a unique piece of art. I think there might be one at the aviation museum at OAK.
By the time Texas Air Corp came on board, the maps became more true to reality.
A999 From Norway, joined Mar 2004, 231 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2046 times:
When NW operated their Scandinavian network they never flew into Oslo/FBU. In fact they had to use GEN (military/charter airport) cause the FBU runway was too short to accomodate 747s. (Tower Air did fly a weekly 747 from JFK for a brief period, probably with some weigth penalty).
Btw GEN today serves as the GA terminal at OSL as the new airport is built at the same location.
AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 18852 posts, RR: 64 Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1996 times:
Quoting Stirling (Reply 14): I only hoped to express that the route maps of NW, no matter the year, were not always the best way to judge the actual flying that went on.
Yes, I understand what you're saying in terms of specific routes, and I agree different airlines had varying standards of accuracy in the lines they drew.
I don't think that takes away from the list of cities I posted in Reply #2, even if there's some question of whether they connected the dots in the manner the map represents. Only having the full original timetable or an OAG of the period in front of us would be able to answer that question, somewhat like the confusion regarding National Airlines' service to Europe in an past thread.