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What Was NWA Doing In Stockholm Back In The Days?  
User currently offlineFlyinTLow From Germany, joined Oct 2004, 517 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 1 month 15 hours ago) and read 4015 times:

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What was Northwest Orient doing in Stockholm back in those days? I thought NWA Orient was just NWA to the Middle and Far-East. Or were they a completly independant airline (operations wise at least) ?


- When dreams take flight, follow them -
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3799 posts, RR: 28
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 14 hours ago) and read 3979 times:

Are you serious? They were doing what they've always done... transport people to and from their destination. They are an AIRLINE and that's what airlines do.


AZJ


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 14 hours ago) and read 3965 times:

In the mid 1980's NW opened a European hub operation at BOS, and along with flights from MSP flew to, SNN, DUB, GLA, LGW, FRA, CPH, ARN, and FBU.

Some past examples of their route maps are available here:

http://www.airchive.com/SITE%20PAGES/TIMETABLES-NORTHWEST.html

[Edited 2005-03-23 01:38:30]


International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineJano From Slovakia, joined Jan 2004, 823 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 14 hours ago) and read 3946 times:

When PanAm withdrew from Scandinavia in the late 70ies and early 80ties then NWA got rights to the routes to Scandinavia. So, NWA flew
MSP-DTW-NYC-CPH-Stockholm and
SEA-MSP-BOS-Glasgow-CPH

See "Flight to the Top - The inside story - How Northwest Airlines reached the top".



The Widget Air Line :)
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 14 hours ago) and read 3926 times:

Northwest Orient was the old name to emphasis their routes to Asia. When they merged with Republic in the 1980s they dropped the orient. They expanded to Europe and the alliance with KLM started. They rebranded themselves as "Northwest Airlines". Now they just rebranded themselves as the newly funkified "NWA". YO!

They served Stockholm and Oslo for awhile. Thanks to a demand by the very large scandinavian population in Minnesota.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3799 posts, RR: 28
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 12 hours ago) and read 3870 times:

Let's get this straight... NOrthwest has been Northwest since it's creation. The ORIENT was never the official name and was part of the branding strategy. THis is true despite what Geoff Jones and all the other people who have no idea of the true history of NWA are talking about.


AZJ


User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 11 hours ago) and read 3840 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
In the mid 1980's NW opened a European hub operation at BOS, and along with flights from MSP flew to, SNN, DUB, GLA, LGW, FRA, CPH, ARN, and FBU.

Some past examples of their route maps are available here:

http://www.airchive.com/SITE%20PAGES....html

The Northwest Orient maps of the 70's era were not altogether accurate. Routes that were authorized, but not operated were shown on the map. It's gives an idea, but not an accurate representation.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 4):
They served Stockholm and Oslo for awhile. Thanks to a demand by the very large scandinavian population in Minnesota.

Since these flights ran out of BOSTON, the Scandinavian population in Minnesota was not an issue, but rather a coincidence. The VFR traffic between Scandinavia and the upper midwest of the US is Infinitesimal.



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User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3799 posts, RR: 28
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 11 hours ago) and read 3825 times:

Why is everyone so hung up on this MSP and the Scandinavian deman crud? These people are the DECENDANTS of the Scandinavians... it's not like there are huge waves of immigrants clearing customs from Norway, Finland and Sweden.

There is a large Somalian population in MSP too... should NWA apply for Mogadishu route authorities?


AZJ


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 11 hours ago) and read 3817 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 6):
The Northwest Orient maps of the 70's era were not altogether accurate.

:: shrug :: I'm not quite sure what you're referring to, since there's only one map from the 70's at that link -- Feb 1, 1974. It looks pretty accurate to me, considering the legend of flight times it corresponds to at the bottom of the page. Maybe you could point out what's incorrect on that map?



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 10 hours ago) and read 3836 times:

Examples 1975:

ITO-PDX/SEA/ORD mapped, not operated.
HKG-SEL/OKA/TPE mapped, not operated.
SEL-OSA mapped, not operated.
GEG-GTF unmapped, operated.
BIL-BZN/FAR unmapped, operated.
PHL-MSP unmapped, operated.
IAD-SEA unmapped, operated.
CLE-DCA unmapped, operated.

Examples 1983:

CPH-MIA/ARN mapped, not operated.
OSL-BOS/GLA mapped, not operated.
JFK-GLA mapped, not operated.
JFK-SNN unmapped, operated.
PDX-SFO mapped, not operated.
MNL-SEL unmapped, operated.
GEG-BTM unmapped, operated.

1978 was the most ambiguous.
The RouteMap showed routes from LAX, SEA, MSP, ORD, BOS and JFK to Reykjavik, Glasgow, Bergen, Oslo, Goteborg, Copenhagen, Stavanger, Stockholm and Helsinki, and didn't serve one. In addition, the map was filled with more non-operated routes to Hawai'i, Asia and domestically.



Delete this User
User currently offlineJano From Slovakia, joined Jan 2004, 823 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 10 hours ago) and read 3783 times:

Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 7):
There is a large Somalian population in MSP too... should NWA apply for Mogadishu route authorities?

No Big grin

But there is a large population of beer loving Czechs and Slovaks here in TYS. There's about 19 of us (plus one teetotaler) and we would not mind flying NWA to PRG direct! Big grin



The Widget Air Line :)
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 10 hours ago) and read 3775 times:

Maybe we're looking at two different things. The link I posted has route maps for Feb 1974 and June 1986. None of the dates you're comparing routes to mapped/unmapped/operated/not operated are listed.


International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 847 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 3 hours ago) and read 3669 times:

Quoting Jano (Reply 3):

Correction:

PAA redrew from Scandinavia in early 90´s, not 80´s, flew PA A313 ARN-JFK late 1990!

DL had flights to ARN til late 90´s IIRC.

Micke//SE  wave 



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24326 posts, RR: 47
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 3 hours ago) and read 3658 times:

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 12):
Correction:

PAA redrew from Scandinavia in early 90´s, not 80´s, flew PA A313 ARN-JFK late 1990!

DL had flights to ARN til late 90´s IIRC.

Micke//SE

No, Northwest Orient gained Pan Am's Scandinavia route rights in the very late 1970s. It initially began service to Stockholm and Copenhagen in 1979.

Pan Am did not return to Scandinavia until the mid 80s, initially making use of European based B737,B727s. Eventually it did operate, A310s directly across the pond to Scandinavia by the late 80s. This is what Delta took over.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month ago) and read 3595 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 11):
Maybe we're looking at two different things. The link I posted has route maps for Feb 1974 and June 1986. None of the dates you're comparing routes to mapped/unmapped/operated/not operated are listed.

We are, and we aren't  Smile

The same anomalies applied to the posted maps, I only hoped to express that the route maps of NW, no matter the year, were not always the best way to judge the actual flying that went on. To get a clearer understanding of the NW network, one must extrapolate the schedule information and go from there. That has been my hobby over the years, deciphering the squiggly lines of airlines into true representations of the route networks they operated.

But nothing came close to the mess of Continental in the 70's. Like I've mentioned before, Robert Six was obsessed with being a bigger airline than what he actually was. In those route maps of the 70's, it looked like every city in the system was connected to every other city with a nonstop flight:

http://www.airchive.com/Timetables%20and%20Maps/Continental%20Compressed/COmap7704.jpg

This map is a fine example of what I'm talking about.
Continental never flew the MSY-OKC route, or SEA-ICT, but they were plotted on the map. Each station of any size in the system, had these wonderfully intricate 6" by 4" wire maps mounted on the walls behind the check-in counters. They didn't change. I saw one for sale once that used to be housed at the ABQ station for a mere $2000USD. But definitely a unique piece of art. I think there might be one at the aviation museum at OAK.

By the time Texas Air Corp came on board, the maps became more true to reality.

http://www.airchive.com/Timetables%20and%20Maps/Continental%20Compressed/COmap8206.jpg

I wish I knew how to upload my own examples, I hate depending on others to illustrate what I am saying.........hope this has helped.



Delete this User
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6709 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3507 times:

The all-time champion for route-where-Northwest-doesn't-belong: MIA-CPH. Unless they actually did fly MIA-GOT, like some 1978 schedules show.

User currently offlineA999 From Norway, joined Mar 2004, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3469 times:

When NW operated their Scandinavian network they never flew into Oslo/FBU. In fact they had to use GEN (military/charter airport) cause the FBU runway was too short to accomodate 747s. (Tower Air did fly a weekly 747 from JFK for a brief period, probably with some weigth penalty).
Btw GEN today serves as the GA terminal at OSL as the new airport is built at the same location.


User currently offlineKkfla737 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1033 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3439 times:

Quoting Timz (Reply 15):
The all-time champion for route-where-Northwest-doesn't-belong: MIA-CPH. Unless they actually did fly MIA-GOT, like some 1978 schedules show.

I believe this route was flown in 1982 as well.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3419 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 14):
I only hoped to express that the route maps of NW, no matter the year, were not always the best way to judge the actual flying that went on.

Yes, I understand what you're saying in terms of specific routes, and I agree different airlines had varying standards of accuracy in the lines they drew.

I don't think that takes away from the list of cities I posted in Reply #2, even if there's some question of whether they connected the dots in the manner the map represents. Only having the full original timetable or an OAG of the period in front of us would be able to answer that question, somewhat like the confusion regarding National Airlines' service to Europe in an past thread.

Cheers.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6709 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3341 times:

Quoting Kkfla737 (Reply 17):
Quoting Timz (Reply 15):
The all-time champion for route-where-Northwest-doesn't-belong: MIA-CPH. Unless they actually did fly MIA-GOT, like some 1978 schedules show.

I believe this route was flown in 1982 as well.

My mistake-- delete 1978. If they flew it at all it was in late 1982.


User currently offlineFlyinTLow From Germany, joined Oct 2004, 517 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3297 times:

@Azjubilee:

If you know everything about NWA, mind sharing the real story with us?



- When dreams take flight, follow them -
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