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Delta From JFK To Europe  
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19215 posts, RR: 52
Posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7076 times:

How is DL performing on all its European routes from JFK in terms of profits, yields and loads? Which is the best-performing and worse-performing route?


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3767 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7025 times:

Will DL ever fly from JFK to the UK?

Rob!


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19215 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7000 times:

Didn't DL once fly JFK-MAN?


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6945 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 2):
Didn't DL once fly JFK-MAN?

Yes, with a 763 that routed BOS-JFK-MAN and back.
On the topic, while I don't have access to inside DL data, Delta's loadfactor to Europe is very good, and its European routes are one of the things that keep DL afloat. Average off-season loads are over 70%, and during high-season in the summer, average loads are easily above 80%. Yields are definitely good, especially on those routes where DL has a monopoly (NCE, VCE, BCN). Same goes for routes from ATL.


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19215 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6919 times:

Its business-class fares during the summer (I based the prices on 30th July out, 6th August back) are pretty well priced, such as between $2,300 and $2,600 to most destinations, such as AMS, SVO, BRU, FRA, MXP, NCE, BCN, IST and CDG; nearly $3,650 to ATH; and nearly $5,650 to VCE and FCO. Does anyone know how well its business-class seats sell?

Needless to say, a lot of its economy-class seats (its 'deeply discounted' coach seats) sell during the summer for over $1,000 - normally between $1,000 and $1,300, although some, depending on the dates, can fall as low as $450.

[Edited 2005-03-23 20:22:05]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineB4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2637 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6790 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
Will DL ever fly from JFK to the UK?

If BII dies and DL can get into LHR, I would bet my left one that we would see JFK-LHR on DL



B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19215 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6777 times:

Didn't DL serve DEL via either CDG or FRA? DL now serves both MAA and BOM via CDG. What is the likelihood of a one-stop service from JFK to DEL recommencing? The demand is evidently there. I guess the issue is permission.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3767 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6757 times:

B4real, if who dies?


Is DL looking at creating any new long haul JFK routes?

Rob!


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6745 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 7):
B4real, if who dies?

He's talking about the Bermuda-II aviation bilateral... which is what prevents DL et al from serving LHR.


User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3767 posts, RR: 19
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6730 times:

Oh right, for a minute I thought he ment BA!!  Silly

If AA or UA was to pull out of LHR would that mean that DL, US, CO and NW could apply for LHR slots?

Rob!


User currently offlineB4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2637 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6733 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 7):
Is DL looking at creating any new long haul JFK routes?

They are starting JFK-TXL this year (well restarting from a while back...)

I´d to see JFK-ARN return.

Welcome back ConcordeBoy



B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6708 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 6):
Didn't DL serve DEL via either CDG or FRA?

Yes, via FRA, from the PA takeover until they dropped the FRA hub in 1997. DL had plans to relaunch the flight in 2000 from FRA, but opted to focus its India operation on CDG by moving the BOM flight there, and instead of flying to DEL themselves opted to codeshare on AF metal.

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 6):
What is the likelihood of a one-stop service from JFK to DEL recommencing?

The chance has gotten bigger ever since AF upped their schedule on CDG-BOM instead of continuing mostly on DL, and DL might apply for CDG-BOM as a "counteraction". And I definitely hope so. Delta's loads to BOM are easily above 90%, if not even above 95%, and yields are good. Although the competition (Jet Airways) is growing.

Quoting B742 (Reply 7):
Is DL looking at creating any new long haul JFK routes?

DL still has to reopen a lot of routes they dropped from JFK, like DUB/SNN, MAN, MUC, STR or HAM  Wink . But so far only the return to TXL is official.

Quoting B742 (Reply 9):
If AA or UA was to pull out of LHR would that mean that DL, US, CO and NW could apply for LHR slots?

It would probably be more of a "Who makes the highest offer?"-auction, unless either of the 4 teakes over AA or BA.


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19215 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6692 times:

Needless to say, the demand between NYC and DEL must surely be there. Do you think DL would route to DEL via CDG (as with BOM and MAA) or via, say, FRA as previously?

Does DL have full rights (passenger and cargo) between CDG and BOM and MAA and vice-versa? I presume it does.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineB4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2637 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6677 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 9):
If AA or UA was to pull out of LHR would that mean that DL, US, CO and NW could apply for LHR slots?

By the simple falter of AA or UA, I would have to say no, DL would not get rights to LHR. I think Bermuda-II would have to be reissued (Bermuda-III or something) to explicity allow additional carriers.

Anyone know for sure. I gave a few minutes looking for Bermula-II verbage an could not find it.



B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6674 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 12):
Do you think DL would route to DEL via CDG (as with BOM and MAA) or via, say, FRA as previously?

Definitely through CDG. Even if AF already flies that route, CDG still offers an enormous amount of feed. Service via FRA might only be a long term option, like the second seasonal BOM flight DL did this winter.

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 12):
Does DL have full rights (passenger and cargo) between CDG and BOM and MAA and vice-versa? I presume it does.

Yes, full 5th freedom rights between CDG and BOM/MAA. Same goes for FRA-BOM when that flight operates. Nonetheless, most traffic is coming from the US (JFK, CVG, ATL especially).


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19215 posts, RR: 52
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6583 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 14):
Definitely through CDG.

So DL would operate three daily flights between JFK and CDG.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5695 posts, RR: 18
Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6536 times:

Back in the 1990s DL operated feeder flights FRA-PRG-WAW. You could buy i.e. PRG-FRA ticket only no problem. Does anyone know on what legal grounds these flights between "third" countries were possible?

http://www.planes.cz/foto1.asp?mode=detail&id=EAMPJSUR&jazyk=en


User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3007 posts, RR: 27
Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6495 times:

I fly DL on the JFK-SVO route regularly, and I love the service, which probably explains why I fly DL to Moscow. They offer great service for a very very good price. Sometimes even give me complimentary upgrades. So keep up the good work. Plus I guess they get good loads on Russia flights since they are adding an additional daily flight from ATL!

Aeroflot777


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19215 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6479 times:

What are the loads like, SU772?


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineDelta4eva From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6458 times:

I've been checking the flights to Europe from both JFK and ATL for the past week. Nearly all of the flights are overbooked especially coming from Europe to the US. The loads are even better over the summer. The loads are great, however I don't know how the yields are but I'm sure they are good also since Delta continues to expand over the Atlantic. I hope they start some trans-Atlantic flights from Boston soon.


FLY DELTA JETS
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6446 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 9):
If AA or UA was to pull out of LHR would that mean that DL, US, CO and NW could apply for LHR slots?

In and of itself, no. Would probably prove a catalyst for yet another attempt to annul BII though.

Quoting B4real (Reply 10):
Welcome back ConcordeBoy

Spank you, vury much.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 11):
and DL might apply for CDG-BOM as a "counteraction".

They already fly the route.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 11):
It would probably be more of a "Who makes the highest offer?"-auction

No it wouldn't... CO has first rights into LHR (from this side of the pond) in the event the USA/UK bilateral is adjusted, short of full open skies.


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6435 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 15):
So DL would operate three daily flights between JFK and CDG.

Either that, or route a flight ATL-CDG-India.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 20):
They already fly the route.

Sorry, meant CDG-DEL.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 20):
No it wouldn't... CO has first rights into LHR (from this side of the pond) in the event the USA/UK bilateral is adjusted, short of full open skies.

Why is that?


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19215 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6431 times:

DL's yields to and from Europe seem particularly good, as is obvious, during peak summer, when virtually all airfares are over $1,000 - at 'deeply discounted' level. However, it would seem that winter, spring and even early summer flights can, depending on your destination, be $450 - probably less for winter. Naturally these are the lowest possible fares. Take a look at my business-class fare examples, above. Do not forget that DL has 'discounted' and 'flexible' economy/coach fares too.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4898 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6379 times:
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Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 22):
DL's yields to and from Europe seem particularly good, as is obvious, during peak summer, when virtually all airfares are over $1,000 - at 'deeply discounted' level.

Those are the officially published fares. However, don't forget the discounted bulk tour operator fares (for tour groups), as well as consolidator "unpublished" fares.. which are lower than the published fares. They have quite a few of those as well - so not everyone in Y in the summer is paying over $1000...

These days, most of the JFK-Europe flights are very full but that is a reflection of the general industry trend as opposed to something specific to Delta. That being said, both JFK-CDG flights are very full because of the connections through CDG.
Both JFK-FCO and JFK-VCE do very well year-round.
JFK-NCE is weak in the winter but in the summer, there is significant high-yield Business traffic.
JFK-BCN does well because of the cruise traffic
The new JFK-TXL is very full in Y for May and parts of JUne but that is because of the low introductory Y fares they were offering...


User currently offlineZweed From Netherlands, joined Apr 2004, 455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6012 times:

I was on JFK - AMS 1 month ago and the flight was pretty full i must say

25 SU : Their Moscow flights are very good. Business and Economy are almost always full.
26 LGAtoIND : Since Delta has such a large international operation out of JFK, why don't they use 757s like CO, to go from JFK to smaller European destinations. Thi
27 DAL767400ER : Yes, I have been thinking about this idea before CO ever send a 757 across the pond. Some years ago, Boeing proposed launching a 752ERX, based on the
28 FlyMIA : Not business traffic, but rather high-yielding "jet set" traffic. Nice is a playground for the rich, who make the service very viable.
29 Aeroflot777 : Yeah as SU said the loads to Moscow are great. The plane is usually packed on all flights regardless of season. This is great considering the Aeroflot
30 Brons2 : I flew DL from JFK last June, well, DFW-JFK-AMS. They flew me on a 3 hour flight to JFK on a CRJ-700 (ack) and then a ratty old 763 to AMS. Legroom an
31 Post contains images Lockheed1011 : Brons2 , People like you are the ones hurting our local economy. Take the example of the Europeans, they are proud and defend their products at all co
32 STT757 : Hows that?.... Philadelphia is closer to Atlanta than JFK, plus JFK has paltry Domestic offerings outside Florida or California.
33 B4real : That is subjective, and I don't believe it. I've flown DL A LOT and never had that. A lot of my travel is in economy. I'll give you that, the DL Int'
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