Pe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 18829 posts, RR: 54 Posted (8 years 2 months 19 hours ago) and read 5167 times:
How is DL performing on all its European routes from JFK in terms of profits, yields and loads? Which is the best-performing and worse-performing route?
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
Yes, with a 763 that routed BOS-JFK-MAN and back.
On the topic, while I don't have access to inside DL data, Delta's loadfactor to Europe is very good, and its European routes are one of the things that keep DL afloat. Average off-season loads are over 70%, and during high-season in the summer, average loads are easily above 80%. Yields are definitely good, especially on those routes where DL has a monopoly (NCE, VCE, BCN). Same goes for routes from ATL.
Pe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 18829 posts, RR: 54 Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 18 hours ago) and read 5010 times:
Its business-class fares during the summer (I based the prices on 30th July out, 6th August back) are pretty well priced, such as between $2,300 and $2,600 to most destinations, such as AMS, SVO, BRU, FRA, MXP, NCE, BCN, IST and CDG; nearly $3,650 to ATH; and nearly $5,650 to VCE and FCO. Does anyone know how well its business-class seats sell?
Needless to say, a lot of its economy-class seats (its 'deeply discounted' coach seats) sell during the summer for over $1,000 - normally between $1,000 and $1,300, although some, depending on the dates, can fall as low as $450.
[Edited 2005-03-23 20:22:05]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
Pe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 18829 posts, RR: 54 Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 17 hours ago) and read 4868 times:
Didn't DL serve DEL via either CDG or FRA? DL now serves both MAA and BOM via CDG. What is the likelihood of a one-stop service from JFK to DEL recommencing? The demand is evidently there. I guess the issue is permission.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
DAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 50 Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 17 hours ago) and read 4799 times:
Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 6): Didn't DL serve DEL via either CDG or FRA?
Yes, via FRA, from the PA takeover until they dropped the FRA hub in 1997. DL had plans to relaunch the flight in 2000 from FRA, but opted to focus its India operation on CDG by moving the BOM flight there, and instead of flying to DEL themselves opted to codeshare on AF metal.
Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 6): What is the likelihood of a one-stop service from JFK to DEL recommencing?
The chance has gotten bigger ever since AF upped their schedule on CDG-BOM instead of continuing mostly on DL, and DL might apply for CDG-BOM as a "counteraction". And I definitely hope so. Delta's loads to BOM are easily above 90%, if not even above 95%, and yields are good. Although the competition (Jet Airways) is growing.
Quoting B742 (Reply 7): Is DL looking at creating any new long haul JFK routes?
DL still has to reopen a lot of routes they dropped from JFK, like DUB/SNN, MAN, MUC, STR or HAM . But so far only the return to TXL is official.
Quoting B742 (Reply 9): If AA or UA was to pull out of LHR would that mean that DL, US, CO and NW could apply for LHR slots?
It would probably be more of a "Who makes the highest offer?"-auction, unless either of the 4 teakes over AA or BA.
Pe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 18829 posts, RR: 54 Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 17 hours ago) and read 4783 times:
Needless to say, the demand between NYC and DEL must surely be there. Do you think DL would route to DEL via CDG (as with BOM and MAA) or via, say, FRA as previously?
Does DL have full rights (passenger and cargo) between CDG and BOM and MAA and vice-versa? I presume it does.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
B4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2595 posts, RR: 6 Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 17 hours ago) and read 4768 times:
Quoting B742 (Reply 9): If AA or UA was to pull out of LHR would that mean that DL, US, CO and NW could apply for LHR slots?
By the simple falter of AA or UA, I would have to say no, DL would not get rights to LHR. I think Bermuda-II would have to be reissued (Bermuda-III or something) to explicity allow additional carriers.
Anyone know for sure. I gave a few minutes looking for Bermula-II verbage an could not find it.
DAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 50 Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 17 hours ago) and read 4765 times:
Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 12): Do you think DL would route to DEL via CDG (as with BOM and MAA) or via, say, FRA as previously?
Definitely through CDG. Even if AF already flies that route, CDG still offers an enormous amount of feed. Service via FRA might only be a long term option, like the second seasonal BOM flight DL did this winter.
Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 12): Does DL have full rights (passenger and cargo) between CDG and BOM and MAA and vice-versa? I presume it does.
Yes, full 5th freedom rights between CDG and BOM/MAA. Same goes for FRA-BOM when that flight operates. Nonetheless, most traffic is coming from the US (JFK, CVG, ATL especially).
L410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5394 posts, RR: 19 Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 16 hours ago) and read 4627 times:
Back in the 1990s DL operated feeder flights FRA-PRG-WAW. You could buy i.e. PRG-FRA ticket only no problem. Does anyone know on what legal grounds these flights between "third" countries were possible?
Aeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 2957 posts, RR: 30 Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 16 hours ago) and read 4586 times:
I fly DL on the JFK-SVO route regularly, and I love the service, which probably explains why I fly DL to Moscow. They offer great service for a very very good price. Sometimes even give me complimentary upgrades. So keep up the good work. Plus I guess they get good loads on Russia flights since they are adding an additional daily flight from ATL!
Delta4eva From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 344 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 15 hours ago) and read 4549 times:
I've been checking the flights to Europe from both JFK and ATL for the past week. Nearly all of the flights are overbooked especially coming from Europe to the US. The loads are even better over the summer. The loads are great, however I don't know how the yields are but I'm sure they are good also since Delta continues to expand over the Atlantic. I hope they start some trans-Atlantic flights from Boston soon.
Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 20): No it wouldn't... CO has first rights into LHR (from this side of the pond) in the event the USA/UK bilateral is adjusted, short of full open skies.
Pe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 18829 posts, RR: 54 Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 15 hours ago) and read 4522 times:
DL's yields to and from Europe seem particularly good, as is obvious, during peak summer, when virtually all airfares are over $1,000 - at 'deeply discounted' level. However, it would seem that winter, spring and even early summer flights can, depending on your destination, be $450 - probably less for winter. Naturally these are the lowest possible fares. Take a look at my business-class fare examples, above. Do not forget that DL has 'discounted' and 'flexible' economy/coach fares too.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
Panamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4583 posts, RR: 26 Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 15 hours ago) and read 4470 times:
Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 22): DL's yields to and from Europe seem particularly good, as is obvious, during peak summer, when virtually all airfares are over $1,000 - at 'deeply discounted' level.
Those are the officially published fares. However, don't forget the discounted bulk tour operator fares (for tour groups), as well as consolidator "unpublished" fares.. which are lower than the published fares. They have quite a few of those as well - so not everyone in Y in the summer is paying over $1000...
These days, most of the JFK-Europe flights are very full but that is a reflection of the general industry trend as opposed to something specific to Delta. That being said, both JFK-CDG flights are very full because of the connections through CDG.
Both JFK-FCO and JFK-VCE do very well year-round.
JFK-NCE is weak in the winter but in the summer, there is significant high-yield Business traffic.
JFK-BCN does well because of the cruise traffic
The new JFK-TXL is very full in Y for May and parts of JUne but that is because of the low introductory Y fares they were offering...
Zweed From Netherlands, joined Apr 2004, 455 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4103 times:
I was on JFK - AMS 1 month ago and the flight was pretty full i must say
25 SU: Their Moscow flights are very good. Business and Economy are almost always full.
26 LGAtoIND: Since Delta has such a large international operation out of JFK, why don't they use 757s like CO, to go from JFK to smaller European destinations. Thi
27 DAL767400ER: Yes, I have been thinking about this idea before CO ever send a 757 across the pond. Some years ago, Boeing proposed launching a 752ERX, based on the
28 FlyMIA: Not business traffic, but rather high-yielding "jet set" traffic. Nice is a playground for the rich, who make the service very viable.
29 Aeroflot777: Yeah as SU said the loads to Moscow are great. The plane is usually packed on all flights regardless of season. This is great considering the Aeroflot
30 Brons2: I flew DL from JFK last June, well, DFW-JFK-AMS. They flew me on a 3 hour flight to JFK on a CRJ-700 (ack) and then a ratty old 763 to AMS. Legroom an
31 Lockheed1011: Brons2 , People like you are the ones hurting our local economy. Take the example of the Europeans, they are proud and defend their products at all co
32 STT757: Hows that?.... Philadelphia is closer to Atlanta than JFK, plus JFK has paltry Domestic offerings outside Florida or California.
33 B4real: That is subjective, and I don't believe it. I've flown DL A LOT and never had that. A lot of my travel is in economy. I'll give you that, the DL Int'
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. But so far only the return to TXL is official.
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