Another incident happened on November 30th 2004 when a cessna 172 aircraft landed on indian ocean off the coast of Bagamoyo Town in Tanzania.
A very interesting article on: http://www.theexpress.com/express%20367/news/news2.htm#1
Any comments, especially on the Cessna 172 incident in November last year??
Jtamu97 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 663 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7627 times:
First of all Jambo!! Any idea how strong th winds were on takeoff? The article referenced strong winds blowing the wreckage so seems fairly brisk. Possibly if the wind was strong enough the plane may have stalled or encountered wind shear on takeoff.
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 7585 times:
I saw this on a similar thread over on pprune... Presented FWIW...
It has nothing to do with old aircraft or African conditions of any kind. It is a problem of simple physics and the inability of pilots to make a quanatative analysis of the variables and apply the laws, or in this case, the take-off calculations. Having flow several types of cargo aircraft out of Mwanza over the past years, I am very familiar with the place and the shippers. The airport is not the most modern and lacks navagational aids; this is a given. However, once the temp. and wind is known (or guessed) the only other variable is the weight of the load and here is where the problems start. The shippers will cheat on weights or bribe the loadmasters or captains with cash to take extra cargo (fish). As every flight is contracted to carry a minimum weight, you can start to see the pressure put on the crews in one way or another. A few hundred dollars extra to a Russian crew is a lot of money, especially when the flight is preformed several times a month. Quite often the risk results in extra money for vodka; sometimes not. The bottom line: flight calculations are based on physics; pushing the envelope for any reason can be a formula for disaster. The aircraft has nothing to do with it!
Jambo From Tanzania, joined Dec 2004, 249 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7454 times:
The Tanzania Civil Aviation Authority are still looking for the Black Box, which would give them a clue as to what exactly happened. Seven bodies out of the eight have been recovered, and there are arrangements for the bodies to be sent to Russia.
Meanwhile, on friday just two days after the cargo plane crash near Mwanza Airport, An Air Tanzania Boeing 737 burst its four tyres while landing at Mwanza Airport. The weather conditions were very bad, the runway being wet and so the pilot had to apply more brakes, leading to tyre bursts. - That is what is presumed. - Thank god nobody was injured.
Bully707 From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1042 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7387 times:
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 8): The shippers will cheat on weights or bribe the loadmasters or captains with cash to take extra cargo (fish). As every flight is contracted to carry a minimum weight, you can start to see the pressure put on the crews in one way or another.
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 8): The bottom line: flight calculations are based on physics; pushing the envelope for any reason can be a formula for disaster. The aircraft has nothing to do with it!
I agree 100% !!!!
I've seen it happen myself....as for the russian jets, 98% of incidents involving russian aircraft are man-made.
The unreliable part in all this reains the human part.
P.S OPNLguy, welcome to my R-U list.
"That's the good thing about the 707...it can do anything, but read!" Joe Patroni, Airport '70
Bearcuban12 From Germany, joined Mar 2005, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 7193 times:
am not saying that the previous 2 crashes out of MWZ have been with overloaded a/c, but, from first hand experience, I can tell you what it is like taking off from MWZ in an overloaded IL-76.
The routing we were doing was MWZ - KRT - CAI - BTS.
Prior to landing at MWZ, we had flown into an airfield in the DRC that was admittedly too short for the IL-76. We had both right and left MLG's catch fire and 3 blown tires. Luckily, on the previous flight, we had delivered to the airport in question a new fire truck.
Whilst loading in MWZ, there was an abundance of activity at the rear of the a/c. There would have been 40 africans wearing white wellingtons all loading the boxes in by hand. Nobody was counting the amount of cargo being loaded.
The paperwork was a little innaccurate, with the shipper arguing how many boxes were being loaded.
The airline in question was paid a certain amount per KG, and the crew was (by their own admission) paid a bonus for carrying past a certain weight. I estmate that we were at approx 53t of load on board when we took off.
We used as much runway as possible. (for those of you that have been into MWZ, you will know that you have next to no room to turm around at the end of the runway, and you run the risk of ending up in the dirt.) When we accelerated (hardly) down the runway, I had the feeling that we had a bungee cord attached to the rear of the aircraft. I was standing behind the captain and F/O watching the takeoff, and the captain and the F/O were glancing at each other in anticipation.
We did finally lift off and spent the next couple of minutes(seemed like 30) climbing at about 1 ft per second. I went down to the navigators pit and could see the reflection of the moon in the water no more than 50 feet below me.
I went back upstairs to the cockpit, and there was still silence in what was normally a fairly vibrant atmosphere.
After what seemed like an eternity, the airspeed seemed to increase, and the mood in the cockpit changed somewhat. I went out the back to the engineers, who were now resting, stretched out on top of the boxes of fish. After a while, one of them started to prepare the meals for the flight crew and themselves, whilst another pillaged a box of fish and stated packing them with salt into 2 litre coke bottles for later use.
My opinion is that russian crew (whilst being aviation professionals) are pressured into taking risks by the commercial side of our business. Of course the captain has the final say on payloads / flying in dubious conditions etc., but the lure of bonus of a few hundred or a thousand USD's can be too good to refuse to a captain that makes a salary similar what I used to pushing shopping trolleys. If the IL-76's were overloaded, I hope that the commercial guy is unable to sleep for a long - long - long time....
If the captain refuses to fly, he is overlooked for further flying.
Once I was on a russian aircraft for a duty period of 42 hours, and had the captain not flown it, another captain would have been found that would fly it. The captain that refused would have difficulty finding himself 1st choice for the next flight.
MWZ - BTS
This was after the previous evening at the Tilapia hotel, when we got absolutley smashed on vodka that the crew had brought to
the hotel themselves.
At KRT, there was another IL-76 that had taken off just from MWZ after us. - They said that they were carrying 50+ tons, and were flying KRT - BTS direct with no stop in CAI. - They had already unloaded when we got to BTS. This same IL-76 went down in East Timor a year or 2 back.
I just wanted to ask you that do you think it is just 50t of Fish that they take as cargo from Mwanza or is there a hidden agenda aswell to bringing on those Cargo Jets? - What do you think on Gold, since the area does alot of Gold Mining?
Bearcuban12 From Germany, joined Mar 2005, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7012 times:
Funny you ask that.
When I was in the Congo on the same trip, one of the handling agents said to me if I wanted to "help" him get some diamonds back to Europe. He said that his sister was working in London in a hospital and she could assist from the European side.
I said no.
The opportunity to move things illegally is rife.
I have had the opportunity (if I wanted to) to bring just about anything I wanted into Europe. I have had times (in a certain european airport) where I have had to wake the customs officers up to get them to process the load and stamp our passports.
I have also had times when I did not have a visa for the certain country, and they smuggled me out of an airport in the back of the crew bus, and then back in when the flight was due to depart.
I guess that there is the chance to smuggle in some gold on the MWZ - BTS run hidden inside one of the fish boxes, but trying to find that box amongst 10000 other boxes could be fun... Also, I don't think that the box with gold in it would make it to BTS .....