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741/742: How Many Windows On Upper Deck?  
User currently offlineDeltaWings From Switzerland, joined Aug 2004, 1294 posts, RR: 17
Posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4720 times:

I thought the 747-100 only had three windows on the upper deck. But there are also some that have many windows on the upper deck:

747-100: three windows


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Photo © Ken Rose



747-100: many windows


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Photo © A J Best




On the other hand I thought the 747-200 only had many windows on the upper deck, but some also have just three:

747-200: three windows


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Photo © Eduard Marmet




747-200: many windows


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Photo © Rez Manzoori




Howcome is this like this? I thought the typical recignition of the 747-100 were the three windows?


~DeltaWings


Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4704 times:

I think earlier versions had 3 windows (because the upper deck was supposed to be a lounge) but this changed to I think 10 window with later series 100 models (I don't know when). I don't think there is a 'standard' number of windows even on later versions, because some carriers have the aft windows blocked because they have a galley in the rear of the upper deck, other carriers have the forward windows blocked because they have a crew rest up there.

User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 11852 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4666 times:
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Boeing started offering B741 customers 16 windows on top deck shortly after the launch and heaps of the B741 customers prefered 16 upper deck windows, some airlines still ordered the 6 window upper deck thou (TWA).

User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 60
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4650 times:

To add to DeltaWings list, there's also a B747-200 SUD (Stretched Upper Deck) which had an upper deck stretched back like the B743:


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Photo © Nobuyuki Maki



Horus



EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16908 posts, RR: 67
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4605 times:

Quoting Horus (Reply 3):
To add to DeltaWings list, there's also a B747-200 SUD (Stretched Upper Deck) which had an upper deck stretched back like the B743:

There are several. AF and JAL come to mind.

Note that even if customers had to order their 742s with 16 windows many chose to block them off so it looked like they had 3 to a side.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8434 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4572 times:

didn't some airlines even convert the sheet metal from three windows to 16 windows on aircraft which were already in service?

User currently offlineDeltaWings From Switzerland, joined Aug 2004, 1294 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4548 times:

Quoting Horus (Reply 3):
there's also a B747-200 SUD (Stretched Upper Deck) which had an upper deck stretched back like the B743:

But I thought Boeing renamed the 747-200B/SUD to the 747-300 later, or is the 743 totally different compred to the 200SUD?


~DeltaWings



Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
User currently offlineAmy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 1150 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4543 times:

The 747 is a eunique aircraft because of it's upper deck. It's not the only aircraft with an upper deck but I believe the only aircraft with an upper deck that can be altered. When Boeing came out with the upper deck for the 747-300, JAL (amongst others) still had some classic 747s on order. JAL asked Boeing to convert these last 2 747-100s to the SUD (stretched upper deck). KLM and AF also have SUD varients of classic 747s. Boeing also offered a conversion package to extend the upper deck of classic 747s already flying. I believe it is so that any 747 can have it's upper deck stretched or reduced as per the airline's requirements. Hence, any improvements made for the 747-200 could have translated on to 100s that were still being made at the time. Also, new -200s could have been specified with the original lounge upper deck for comonality with -100s already in service.

This is one of the reasons for my love of the 747, it can be customised to suit the airline it works for. There are 747Ds and 747SRs, 747-400Fs with winglets and a short classic upper deck. 747-206B/SUDs with KLM with the body of a -300 and the rest of the plane as a -200. The 747 is the ultimate in modified flying! I doubt there are any two 747s the same between airlines.

I expect even the VC25 could have an SUD if ever needed. The VC-25 in itself is a customisation of the 747 frame with the original classic body and the newer -400 engines.



A340-300 - slow, but awesome!
User currently offlineWunalaYann From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 2839 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4522 times:

Complete beginner's question :

Doesn't this customisation make maintenance more expensive? More variants => more maintenance procedures?


Er, I warned you, beginner's question...


User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4430 times:

From what I understand, "plugging" or "unplugging" these windows is not a problem at all.

TWA ordered -100 models for itself, but acquired -200 models over the years, and had Boeing (or their own maintenance) plug the windows for fleet commonality.

The lack of knowledge of this topic by the conspiracy theorists was sadly brought to life after the TWA 800 crash. The plane, a 747-131, which had been leased to Eastern Airlines early in its career, had 3 windows visible on each side. However, upon impact with the ocean, the plugs popped out, revealing an entire row of upper deck windows. Many claimed that this was not the original airplane (amongst other claims), to which Boeing had to explain over and over again that, indeed, this was the same airplane.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19960717-0

And by the way, the only stupid question is the one not asked, leaving a person in ignorance - so don't ever feel as though your question has no merit!  thumbsup 



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineAC7E7 From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 641 posts, RR: 23
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4356 times:

Did TWA had a lounge on its 741s right till the end?


Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.
User currently offlineCitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2368 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4326 times:

The bottom line is that the number of windows on the upper deck is not a unique identification feature of the 747-100 and -200.

Here are some threads that have discussed this in the past:
http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eral_aviation/read.main/1847556/6/
http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eral_aviation/read.main/1408963/4/
http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/1355008/
http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eral_aviation/read.main/1162404/6/



Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
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