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Isn't B747 The Fastest Commercial Airliner Today?  
User currently offlineTRVYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1370 posts, RR: 10
Posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 10073 times:

After reading through the threads on 747,myself being a great fan of the 747 and today seeing the rare LH's 744 at YYZ, inspired me to start this thread on one of the parameters that even the modern a/c's have not surpassed.

The speed specification of the 747 is greater than the 777's, eventhough I know that they can fly faster than the specified speeds.
I believe Airbus don't even come close.

69 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17040 posts, RR: 66
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10057 times:

Yes it is. The Citation X is the fastest executive jet.


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7642 posts, RR: 35
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9975 times:

As far as I know, the 747 has always been the fastest subsonic airliner. I read once that its average cruise speed was higher then others (I believe mach 0.84, but I'm not sure about the number).


A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9939 times:

The 400 is the fastest commercial aircraft in use to day. The pax version is .855/.86.

User currently offlineAerobalance From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 4682 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9920 times:

Not too bad for 35 year old technology that 'A' keeps pissing on........


"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
User currently offlineAWspicious From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9918 times:

Quoting TRVYYZ (Thread starter):
After reading through the threads on 747,myself being a great fan of the 747 and today seeing the rare LH's 744 at YYZ, inspired me to start this thread on one of the parameters that even the modern a/c's have not surpassed.

On the other end of the spectrum is the Austrian A340 that made such a shallow and gentle climb out from 23 (heh heh)

I'm wondering if today's LH 744 into YYZ was the first one for the season. Bit of an eye-opener when we spotted it sitting at the infield terminal.


User currently offlineSpinalTap From New Zealand, joined Mar 2005, 440 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9864 times:

The Convair 880/990 was the fastest subsonic at 0.87 mach cruising. The last commercial flight of the type was in 1987 and there are none currently in a flying condition although there appears to be some efforts to restore one - www.convairjet.com


"I get what they call a stipend, a stipend is like money but its such as small amount they don't really call it money"
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 977 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9835 times:

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 3):
The 400 is the fastest commercial aircraft in use to day. The pax version is .855/.86.

Just a sidenote, if the ADV becomes a reality, improved aerodynamic tweaks will see the 747 cruising slightly faster...  Smile

Quoting TRVYYZ (Thread starter):
The speed specification of the 747 is greater than the 777's, eventhough I know that they can fly faster than the specified speeds.
I believe Airbus don't even come close.

The A330/A340 cruise at Mach .82
The A340-500/600 cruise at Mach .83
The A380-800 will cruise at Mach .850

The 777 variants cruise at Mach .84
The 787 will cruise at Mach .850


User currently offlineTRVYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1370 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9811 times:

Quoting AWspicious (Reply 5):
Austrian A340 that made such a shallow and gentle climb out from 23

In my recent trip I flew 2 aircrafts successively
1. AC 333 YYZ-LHR and
2. KU 772 LHR-KWI

The climb of the 333 made me think " Is this much power/thrust enough to take-off, are you serious?". It was a slow and feeble climb. But the F/A was excellent(young and beautiful, of course) and didn't expect her to speak such good French( I didn't understand a word) because her English was perfect. I wouldn't mind the slow climb at all, if were to see her again.It was the C-GHKR.

Sorry, I got a bit carried away. The climb of the KU777 from LHR made me feel proud, " that's like a man". May be the 333 is just a beautiful delicate girl. But both the climbs were completely different.

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MyAviation.net photo:
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But nothing comes close to the take-off of a 744, I remember the last time on my AMS-YYZ flight on KL in 2002, as we rotated, the angle was becoming steeper and steeper, my heart was almost coming out of my mouth as if I wanted to tell the pilot" okay that's enough, we better take off from the ground before the tail strikes". The sound and power of the 744 is simply amazing, I wonder if I will be able to fly on a 744 again.


User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7642 posts, RR: 35
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9790 times:

Quoting TRVYYZ (Reply 8):
The climb of the 333 made me think " Is this much power/thrust enough to take-off, are you serious?".

Are you serious? Almost everytime I've taken off in a A330, it was pretty impressive. There were a couple of times leaving YVR for DUS we could have made the space shuttle blush! WOW!  up   up   up 



A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineTRVYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1370 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9767 times:

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 9):
Are you serious? Almost everytime I've taken off in a A330, it was pretty impressive

It must be because, I have flown only on heavies and long routes. The flights I flew before and after this 333 were a 744 and 777. I guess, it all depend on the weight to thrust ratio etc. A 333 is a big a/c and more aerodynamic drag would be there even if you compare with a 767. In my return flight from LHR-YYZ the climb of the AC's 763 was not bad at all, but we had some old school teachers as the F/A's, so I could sleep well compared to my previous YYZ-LHR flight.


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13130 posts, RR: 100
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9748 times:
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Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 7):

Just a sidenote, if the ADV becomes a reality, improved aerodynamic tweaks will see the 747 cruising slightly faster...

DfwRevolution, as much as I would like to agree with you, the larger diameter engines will drive the maximum speed DOWN, not up. Recall that the trade is to reduce engine exhaust velocity as a small sacrifice to get cruise efficiency. I expect the 747Adv to drop to the 777's cruise Mach # of 0.84

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7642 posts, RR: 35
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9744 times:

Quoting TRVYYZ (Reply 10):
some old school teachers as the F/A's, so I could sleep well compared to my previous YYZ-LHR flight.

The F/A on your YYZ-LHR flight, was she blonde or brunette?  Smile



A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16259 posts, RR: 56
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9735 times:

Quoting TRVYYZ (Reply 8):
The climb of the 333 made me think " Is this much power/thrust enough to take-off, are you serious?".

Are you serious? It's ridiculous to compare the take-off performance of different types based on anecdotal experiences as a passenger. Take off performance is heavily affected by air temperature, payload, fuel load, airport altitude. I've had a light AC 744 YUL-YYZ flight take off like a rocket (as you would expect) while a full loaded NW 744 LAX-SYD flight lumber into the air like a tired old DC-3 (again, as you would expect).

As for cruise speed, while the 744 is mach-hundredths faster, the average passenger will not even notice perhaps the 1-3% shorter flight time. Its unfortunate the Sonic Cruiser was canned -- a .95 mach speed would have cut cruise times by 15% or so, enough for most passengers to notice and enough for many to actually opt for if flight time is a factor.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineTRVYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1370 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9713 times:

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 12):
The F/A on your YYZ-LHR flight, was she blonde or brunette?

O God!, I still remember her face, but not her hair. I wish I was single.
From what I remember, she does not seem to be a blonde, so she should be a brunette. But she was young, beautiful, kind and kind of shy. She was a bit shy to face the people after her French announcement.
Do English speaking Canadians speak good and fluent French? I guess she should be French then, but her English was perfect Canadian style.

Hope to see her some day.


User currently offlineTRVYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1370 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9696 times:

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 13):
Are you serious? It's ridiculous to compare the take-off performance of different types based on anecdotal experiences as a passenger. Take off performance is heavily affected by air temperature, payload, fuel load, airport altitude.

I wish I had studied Aeronautical Engineering instead of Electrical. My comments are exactly as you have described. I would be glad if you could give some figures or numbers. As I said, I flew the A333 after flying a 744, so that could be the reason.


User currently offlineLHB727230Adv From Germany, joined Mar 2005, 255 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9657 times:

The 727 is faster than the 747, it's maximum speed is at about 1020km/h, don't know what Mach # that is. Too bad there's not that many left flying.

User currently offlineBayAreaPilot From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9643 times:

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 13):
Its unfortunate the Sonic Cruiser was canned -- a .95 mach speed would have cut cruise times by 15% or so, enough for most passengers to notice and enough for many to actually opt for if flight time is a factor.

Agreed. The Sonic Cruiser is a much more exciting concept than either the A380 or 787. I'm surprised airlines determined that while premium passengers are willing to pay thousands more for a bigger seat and better meals in business class, they are not willing to pay more to save hours on a long-haul flight.


User currently offlineTRVYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1370 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9619 times:

727 Specs from Boeing

747-400 Specs from Boeing

777Specs from Boeing

Isn't this faster than all of the above. If I remember correctly we hit slightly over 980Kmph.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16259 posts, RR: 56
Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9602 times:

Quoting BayAreaPilot (Reply 17):
Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 13):
Its unfortunate the Sonic Cruiser was canned -- a .95 mach speed would have cut cruise times by 15% or so, enough for most passengers to notice and enough for many to actually opt for if flight time is a factor.

Agreed. The Sonic Cruiser is a much more exciting concept than either the A380 or 787. I'm surprised airlines determined that while premium passengers are willing to pay thousands more for a bigger seat and better meals in business class, they are not willing to pay more to save hours on a long-haul flight.

The Sonic Cruiser had active airline interest until 9-11 if memory serves. If/when business travel yields climb again, I'm sure it will be resurrected in one form or another.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5696 posts, RR: 44
Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9490 times:
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Quoting TRVYYZ (Reply 18):
Isn't this faster than all of the above. If I remember correctly we hit slightly over 980Kmph.

Yes it is, but may have little relationship to airspeed, if that plane was flying in a 150km jetstream tailwind the airspeed would be a very economical 820Kmph.

Many years ago I virtually commuted between SYD & PER mostly on Ansett A320, one Friday night we hitched onto a Eastbound jetstream of almost 250kmph, the Captain made a special announcement as he thought, rightly so I expect, that few on board had travelled at over 1000kmph. No one complained about arriving home in SYD over an hour early after a hard work week either



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineCOAMiG29 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 515 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9482 times:

The max speed of a 744 according to the db is 934 km/h while the max speed of a TU-154 is 973 or somthing like that. if you are saying economical crusing speed you are correct however the fastest commercial plane though currently not in active service is the TU-144 which i beleive is slightly faster than the concorde. please correct me if im wrong

the 744 is a great plane. ive never been on a 747 before Sad where can i get a flight on one and return the same day for cheep i just want to be on a 747.

--COAMiG29--



If Continental had a hub at DFW with nonstop flights I would always fly them, unfortunantely good things take time.
User currently offlineLPLAspotter From Portugal, joined Jan 2005, 682 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9479 times:

Quoting SpinalTap (Reply 6):
The last commercial flight of the type was in 1987

I'm just curious, was this operated by Spantax?

Also, does anyone have the website address which (unofficially) lists the speed records by type? Pilots who think they have the record take a picture of the FMC which "proves" that they were going the specified velocity. I'm assuming this operated on the honor system since some records do not come with a photo. Thanks
LPLAspotter



Nuke the Gay Wales for Christ
User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 23, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9464 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 7):
The A330/A340 cruise at Mach .82
The A340-500/600 cruise at Mach .83
The A380-800 will cruise at Mach .850

The 777 variants cruise at Mach .84
The 787 will cruise at Mach .850

The speed of sounds varies by temperature, and so does density through viscosity which also varies with temperature. It is the square root of the ratio of specific heats for air times the gas constant for air times the the air temperature, or a = (1.4*278*T)1/2.

If the temperature randomly fluctuated from different regions of airmasses, your Mach # will also vary even if your speed des not.

So what is the mph/kmph cruise of these aircraft, not including wind?



The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineCOAMiG29 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 515 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9459 times:

look up a few posts i posted some and also check the db


If Continental had a hub at DFW with nonstop flights I would always fly them, unfortunantely good things take time.
25 Cancidas : isn't john travolta rumored to have purchaed a convair to restore for himself? i can't remmber if it was a 880 or a 990 that i heard about. i just hop
26 NceBoy : I can remember on a 332 flight that the PTV showed a speed over 1000 km for the entire cruise (due to very strong wings). That was just fun !
27 Post contains images ACDC8 : I flew on a KLM 747-300 from YVR-AMS via YYC back in 1995, and we had a ground speed of 1127 km/h! That was one hell of a tailwind, nice and bumpy too
28 Dw747400 : Lehpron, "So what is the mph/kmph cruise of these aircraft, not including wind?" Generally the big jets hold a mach number... the exact mph cruise wou
29 Socal : The 727 is the fastest airliner now, over 600++ MPH.
30 N1120A : .855 for the 744, .85 for the 747Classics The take off power for the A330 is not at all an issue, it is that of the A340 Boeing has already stated th
31 Post contains links DfwRevolution : Damn if I know, they are simply the Mach numbers that the respective manufacture tailored the aircraft to cruise at. I'm just relaying Boeing's marke
32 MD11dude : You guys are forgetting about the MD-11, I was under the impression it was easily just as fast as 744.
33 Persotvik : The MD11 is faster as far as I know. TG which operate both the B744 and the M11 on the ZRH-BKK run schedule the route with shorter flighttime with the
34 Socal : The MD-11 is faster than a 747, but still not faster than the 727.
35 Tubs1275 : Hi, My first post so be gentle!! How about the Vickers Super VC10 with a top speed of 0.88 mach....pity only the RAF fly them now days. Cheers, Tubs
36 TRVYYZ : I guess you're right, flytecomm shows a 744 for today's LH.
37 ACYWG : the most rocket-like take-off I've ever had in a AC A333 was one of the short hops they use them on from YUL to YYZ. Light passenger load that day and
38 Mconway : I've worked lots of 744's at M.88 on the Atlantic crossing. This normally occurs during winter months when the outside air temperature is in the low m
39 Post contains links Eilennaei : The following link has a Java Applet that's supposed to calculate the mach number in different circumstances. http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplan
40 TRVYYZ : Like I had mentioned before the planes fly at higher speeds than the specified speeds mentioned by Boeing, because they specify the speed as normal c
41 Jdwfloyd : I've heard stories of a US 722 breaking 600 kts indicated on app to BDA, not sure if it's true or not.
42 Luniew : Once I flew 767-200 with LOT from EWR-WAW we departed 1hr 20 minutes late, Over Atlantic we got some good tail winds, the speed was shown to be 1020km
43 Post contains links Pr1268 : B744 - normal operational Mach is 0.85. MMO = 0.899. A 744 pilot I know mentioned that the overspeed horn sounds at any speed above 0.90. There was a
44 ACYWG : wasn't there a story recently about this type of thing on here, about the 747SP that broke the sound barrier in a dive and now flys kind wonky cause t
45 Luniew : Will the overspeed sound go off if lets say your flying Mach .99 with tail winds? And how does the speed shows? I guess on GPS as ground speed. And th
46 UA772IAD : What were to happen if the captain of a 744, set his airspeed to .87 mach? I know the FMC computes the best, most "economical" airspeed, but again, is
47 Starlionblue : If it's .99 airspeed yes, if it's .99 ground speed no. Overspeed is only a factor of airspeed since ground speed has no aerodynamic effect on the air
48 Starlionblue : The plane would accelerate to .87 mach.[Edited 2005-03-27 23:18:01]
49 UA772IAD : I thought so, but is it just not as cost effective to do that? For example, if a flight was going DEN-IAD, and due to the W-E direction, there will be
50 Starlionblue : Refer to my reply #47. Wind components have no effect on Mach number. If you go to a higher Mach number, fuel burn will increase. Fuel burn is a func
51 Post contains links and images ZRH : Yes, the Convair 990 "Coronado" was the fastest. I loved this aircraft. My first flight as a boy was in a Swissair Coronado between ZRH and ATH. View
52 COAMiG29 : are we only talking subsonic or did you forget about the ssts?
53 BeechNut : I concur that you cannot estimate take-off/climb performance from the pax cabin. Several things will affect take-off performance: density altitude, gr
54 Newark777 : So are the MD-11 and 727 faster than the 747? We never really got a clear answer for that. Harry
55 Post contains images Carlcowkau : From 2000, I have HKG-NRT once or twice a year, and most of them are by JAL 744 in summer. I've a very deep experience that the JAL 744 on Jan 2001 re
56 Post contains images MD11dude : Yes, as he said...current aircraft... I was looking through some routings and It does appear the MD-11 has a slight edge over 744.....And I verry Huge
57 Eilennaei : I can't believe people have such a hard time understanding the basic issues: - one can't convert ground speed to mach speed or airspeed. In a differen
58 Starlionblue : Just as Eilennaei, I am getting frustrated with this thread. HIGH GROUNDSPEED IS NOT THE SAME AS HIGH MACH! Read my lips: Ground speed is a function o
59 DouglasDC10 : Does anybody know about the speed of the DC-8-72? I guess that it could be also a hot candidate.
60 Post contains images TRVYYZ : Which aircraft can take off with the greatest Pitch angle/attitude?I have experienced only the 744 as being the steepest(I agree that different facto
61 BOEING747400 : I've seen speeds as high as 1280 km/h on many GE-powered 744s (on the Airshow screen) in the past but tail wind speed was definitely included in the f
62 Post contains images Sllevin : I don't believe an MD-11 is faster than a 747, certainly not in normal ops. IIRC, the angle of incidence on the wing was increased over the DC-10 by t
63 TWA902fly : Yeah someone already said it, but ground speed has nothing to do with it. I remember the TV screen on AMS-NBO on my KLM 777 reading 1015 kmph TWA902
64 Post contains images Starlionblue : Are you sure, or is it probably . I can tell you it surely probably doesn't tell you much about the performance of the plane.
65 Persotvik : ZRH-BKK B744 = 10 hours and 50 minutes. ZRH-BKK MD11= 10 hours and 30 minutes.
66 Starlionblue : So? Different times of the day could mean different traffic patterns and different winds. Also different operators (or even the same operator) treat
67 Persotvik : TG operate M11/B744 ZRH-BKK on the same schedule....at the same time of the day.....
68 Post contains images MD11dude : So, no big fuss yall! The MD-11 might be a hair faster, but they are all beautiful!! I was on a KLM example from YVR-AMS...Fastest flight ive ever bee
69 BOEING747400 : No kidding! The GE-powered 744s really flew at a speed of 1280 km/h (aided by the tail wind) eastbound over the Pacific Ocean!! Just try one of those
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