Art From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3495 posts, RR: 1 Posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 20755 times:
Supposing you say hello to the world on a Lufthansa flight from LA to SYD. What effect would this have on your nationality? You normally have an automatic claim to the nationality of the land in which you are born. Can you claim German nationality because you were born on a German owned/registered aircraft? If in US or Oz airspace, can you claim one of those nationalities?
Just wondered. When I was a small child I thought I had been born on a plane over the North Sea since I was told I was half English and half Norwegian.
PA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2054 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 20739 times:
This is total speculation on my part, but I think that in ambiguous situations like this, the nationality of the parents is the determining factor. I don't know how much national airspace or aircraft registry plays a role, or if they can even be used for the purposes of applying for citizenship other than that of the parents, but I think its an interesting question. Hopefully someone can enlighten us with fact.
Boeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 20733 times:
The Birthplace is that of the air carrier's flag. The citizenship is that of the parents. As an example, if you are born of British parents on an American Airlines Flight to London, your place of Birth is Dallas (The airlines business address of record), Texas and your citizenship is British.
Planespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3547 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 20731 times:
well, say an American women-citizen has a child on a plane going from the US to Britain. From my understanding he/she is given dual citizenship in both countries until he/she turns 18. then the adult chooses which nationality they want to be.
LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13620 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 20651 times:
The link below should explain where a child is born to an American citizen outside the USA, which could apply to on a foreign aircraft or ship. Basicly, the American Citizen birth parent is to register that birth with the nearest US Counsular office or Embassy office, and the line of American Citizenship is by the Amerian citizenship of one of the parent. In some cases, proof of paternity may have to be presented for a declaration of citizenship for the born child. Of course, you still have a lot of fun comming into a country without a passport...that must make customs and immigration fun ('do have anything to declare that you got during your visit...') http://travel.state.gov/family/family_issues/birth/birth_593.html
ACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7775 posts, RR: 33
Reply 10, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 20636 times:
I would think Boeing7E7 is on the right track. I don't see why you would get dual citizenship just because you were born on a foreign carrier or in foreign airspace. You'd most likely get the citizenship of your parents I would think.
On a positive note, you might get free tickets for life though!
BAxMAN From St. Helena, joined May 2004, 671 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 20639 times:
Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 3): The Birthplace is that of the air carrier's flag. The citizenship is that of the parents. As an example, if you are born of British parents on an American Airlines Flight to London, your place of Birth is Dallas (The airlines business address of record), Texas and your citizenship is British
Really? So a Japanese chick flying SIN - MEL on BA has her child early and thus its place of birth is London??? Someone with the misfortune to fly FR from HHN to BGY not only has to buy a new ticket for their infant, but the aforementioned infant's place of birth is Dublin??? Although every country in the world has a corrupt and illogical legal system, this would seem too illogical - even by a lawyer's standards.
I think Gulfstream Guy's response (reply 1) sounds accurate and then the nationality of the baby is then determined by each individual country's own laws, so in the UK we would look at the domicile of the parents (father takes precedence, if I remember correctly from my Conflicts of laws studies) and the intentions of the parents as to where they were going to permanently reside, to decide whether the newly delivered is entitled to British citizenship.
FLflyguy From United States of America, joined May 2004, 253 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 20566 times:
My understanding is that an aircraft is considered territory of the country in which it is registered. I remember years ago when I used to work at IAD a couple of instances where with Aeroflot, the Soviets would rush someone onto one of their planes and the U.S. police could not retrieve them (i.e., in the case of a defector, etc.) since the aircraft was considered Soviet soil.
In the case of a birth in-flight, the child can obviously claim citizenship of the parents in the normal way. Whether they can claim citizenship of the country of the air carrier depends on that nation's laws: is a child born in that country automatically eligible for citizenship? In the US, that is the case. A child born in the US can claim US citizenship regardless of the citizenship of the parents. That is one reason why at AA we try to be very careful about transporting pregnant women who are close to delivery - in some of the countries we fly to, a woman would give just about anything for her child to have US citizenship and we have fairly frequent occurrences where she will try to hop a flight literally while she is in labor. Of course, we usually notice that fact and refuse to transport her on medical grounds (since it is obviously best for a child to be born in a more appropriate and supportive environment than an aircraft!).
Now, as to what exactly the birth certificate would read I have no idea!
The views expressed are my own, and not necessarily those of my employer.
Skyhawk From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1066 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 20488 times:
Boeing7e7 has it mostly right. If his imaginary child is on American between Dallas and London, the child does have rights to claim American citizenship, but the child is not deemed to have been born in Dallas. The child's birth certificate lists the birthplace as the longitude and latitude at the time of birth. This happened years ago on a Pan Am flight between the African continent and New York. The birth was in the middle of the Atlantic and as I said the birthplace was latitude and longitude.
Trolley Dolley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 20487 times:
I was on a flight where a lady gave birth across the aisle from me. It was a British Airways 747 Harare to Lonodn in 1990. The little boy was born over Chad. The birth place was listed as International Airspace. This avoids claims to citizenship against the airspace of the country, the home country of the airline and the country of arrival- in case the flight has to divert for medical reasons- and allows the citizenship to be sorted out in a calm way. Given the event is rare, the rules are applied as if the parent gave birth at the arrival destiantion. As already mentioned, this does not entitle automatic citizenship of the arrival destination.
In my case, the little boy was granted UK citizenship as he would have been entitled to it anyway.
LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13620 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 20345 times:
Outside the territorial borders, the national registration of the airline, like that of a ship, will determine the issuer of the birth certificate. As to the USA, the citizenship is per that of the parent(s), as noted in my previous post.
Thucydides From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 95 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 20195 times:
Quoting FLflyguy (Reply 14): Whether they can claim citizenship of the country of the air carrier depends on that nation's laws: is a child born in that country automatically eligible for citizenship? In the US, that is the case. A child born in the US can claim US citizenship regardless of the citizenship of the parents.
FLflyguy has it correct. It all depends on the laws of the country where the child's parents have citizenship and the laws of the country in which the child is born.
So the determination would be based on what ever laws govern who has jurisdiction over the plane, and I would imagine that there are conflicts in the law on this matter between jurisdictions. Some might also argue that until you clear immigration, you are not in a country, whereas in other countries, you may only have to have touched land to reap the citizenship benefit.
Berlinflyer From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 20109 times:
According to german citizenship, this requires at least one parent of german nationality. It doesn´t matter at all where you are born. So being born on Lufthansa is no way of getting german nationality if not one of your parents isn´t anyway.
B747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 19985 times:
The definitive answer is as follows.
The baby initially assumes the nationality of the MOTHER for immediate arrival formalities. Remember, the baby has to be classified as a national of some country to complete the paperwork when the plane lands! The nationality of the father is irrelevant until a birth certificate naming him as father is prepared, which cannot be done inflight. In the event of the mother becoming deceased at delivery, the child is treated as a ward of the state whose flag operation is being conducted, and NOT that of the state whose registration is carried on the aircraft (if it is different). If the mother carries dual nationality, then the nationality of the documentation used to make the current flight is considered to be the primary citizenship. The airspace being flown over at the time of delivery is totally irrelevant. The aircraft and all enclosed within it is considered to be the soil of the country whose flag it is flying and the child *may* be entitled to that nationality depending upon individual country laws on the issue. The birth certificate will read "International Airspace" as place of birth.
: Pray that there Isn't an uncalled for Divertion. regds MEL
: Sometime in the 1960s, a friend of mine was born on a Pan Am 707 flying between LHR and JFK. As she was born on an American Airliner, she was given Am
: That is incorrect. It applies to some countries, but there are many countries that will not give you citizenship just because you're born there, unle
: My understanding of what you have written is that normally you do not have an automatic claim to the nationality of the land in which you are born. N
29 EA CO AS
: What Nationality Are You If Born Aloft? You're all wrong - it depends on the airplane...so if you're on a Boeing product, you automatically become an
: Forewarned is forearmed. I'll try hard to avoid being born on North Korean, Burmese, Zimbabwean etc airliners.
: you belong to the airline for the resst of your life
: I don't know the laws of that many countries and cannot say "normally" or anything. I just know that there are countries where you do not automatical
: B747-437B has given the correct answer in Reply 24. I have confirmed this with a solicitor friend who specialises in immigration issues.