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MIA Plans Incentive Program; JetBlue May Land Soon  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32581 posts, RR: 72
Posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3053 times:

Miami Interantional Airport has announced a plan for a new incentive program to lure new carriers and new non-stop destinations. The planned program, which is still awaiting final approval, would waive all landing fees for the first year of service for new carriers or existing carriers providing non-stop service to new markets, both domestic and international. The cost savings would bring the price per passenger down to as little as $3 for airlines, compared to the current $14.90, one of the highest in the nation and one of the main reasons growth at MIA has been stagnant while nearby Fort Lauderdale is booming. However, with Fort Lauderdale already getting congested, and MIA operating under capacity, MIA officials hope low-fare carriers see the alternative. airTran is the only low-fare carrier at MIA.

It is also being reported that jetBlue may be the first airline to take advantage of the program, with service starting in January. It is way too early to tell, but this seems to be like a done deal. jetBlue is being very lip-tight about plans for MIA, saying only along the lines of "nothing is official until we announce it." Though from what I have been told through the rumour mill, jetBlue's plans for MIA may include at least five initial non-stop destinations - JFK, Boston, Dulles, Long Beach, and Oakland, and MIA is the new focus city that Neelman hinted about at a recent conference. American Airlines, get ready to fight. And there is no customer base to build-up as jetBlue's second largest customer base is South Florida.

Another airline expected to take advantage of the offer is South African airline Nationwide, who has reportedly commited to starting MIA-CPT-JNB service, 3x a week, pending a new aircraft acquisition. They hope to start the service by the end of 2006. The Miami-South Africa market has over 220 daily O&D passengers.

Article:
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/11262352.htm


a.
25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJohn From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1374 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3000 times:

jetBlue is still a relatively small player, next to AA. I honestly think they should avoid MIA, because they'll end up getting squashed like a bug. IF you remember, B6 withdrew from ATL because they did NOT have the resources to take on DL's mega fortress hub.

User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6748 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2982 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
MIA is the new focus city that Neelman hinted about at a recent conference.

Perhaps it is just me, but that seems like a crazy thing to do...

 alert  MIA is too expensive.. AA is too dominant.. and FLL is working to well for B6.. I could see MIA with NS to JFK and BOS, maybe OAK.. but I don't think B6 will have even a quasi-size presence at MIA..

And a 1 year waive will still leave the remainin years at almost $15.. no way in this world I would touch MIA if I was running an airline.. especially when FLL can offer the same opportunities..

but that is just me and my opinions.. I could be wrong.



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineTu154 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 375 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2957 times:

Quoting John (Reply 1):
jetBlue is still a relatively small player, next to AA. I honestly think they should avoid MIA, because they'll end up getting squashed like a bug. IF you remember, B6 withdrew from ATL because they did NOT have the resources to take on DL's mega fortress hub.

I think B6 would be very welcome in MIA, and a very strong competitor to AA. People in Miami are driving up to FLL in droves for low fares and an easier flying experience. People are tired of not having a choice in MIA, and even more tired of flying AA and their outragous fares. B6 will have no trouble filling planes.



FIRST ON THE ATLANTIC.....FIRST ON THE PACIFIC.....FIRST IN LATIN AMERICA...FIRST 'ROUND THE WORLD.....PAN AM!!
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4487 posts, RR: 33
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2932 times:

jetBlue is still a relatively small player, next to AA. I honestly think they should avoid MIA, because they'll end up getting squashed like a bug. IF you remember, B6 withdrew from ATL because they did NOT have the resources to take on DL's mega fortress hub.

If JetBlue enters MIA, their success will probably depend upon what they're willing to spend to establish themselves. Remember that they took on AA by entering JFK as well. AA and DL both had and have big focus operations at JFK and big FF bases in the NYC area. But those things didn't stop JetBlue, who offered the product, frequencies, and fares to make the market work for them. Miami also has a vastly larger tourist market than does Atlanta.

I'm not so sure that JetBlue "didn't have the resources" to take on DL and FL at Atlanta. They only offered a handful of flights, if I remember right, with poor departure dimes. Delta's many frequencies of course offered many better departure times, and AirTran's fewer flights did too.

JetBlue, IMO, never made a serious effort at Atlanta. Their entry into that market, poor efforts there, and speedy withdrawal are still a mystery to me. I still have to wonder--and only because I can't think of another explanation--if it was a fit of spite by Neeleman in retaliation for Song. N. apparently found out pretty quick that it would cost a heck of a lot to establish B6 at ATL, and not much longer to realize there was much lower-hanging fruit elsewhere.

Thanks for the info MAH, as always, and keep us posted.

Jim


User currently offlineMGA From Nicaragua, joined Mar 2005, 726 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2925 times:

I wish B6 would... As has happened in almost all the markets B6 has entered, ticket prices have dropped significantly! AA maintains extremely high prices at MIA. I havent been there in 6 years.. FLL has been my South Florida Base...

MGA



Que viva el guaro, el dinero y los aviones!!!
User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3411 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2896 times:

Would B6 shift current FLL flying to MIA to make their start-up presence large enough to bust into the MIA market. Didn't B6 squabble with FLL over proposed runway extensions that FLL decided not to do?

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32581 posts, RR: 72
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2874 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 2):
MIA is too expensive.. AA is too dominant.. and FLL is working to well for B6..

Boston and JFK aren't cheap airports to fly to either. And Denver is more expensive than MIA. Seattle is also a very expensive airport to fly to.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 2):
And a 1 year waive will still leave the remainin years at almost $15.. no way in this world I would touch MIA if I was running an airline.. especially when FLL can offer the same opportunities..

FLL doesn't offer the same opportunities because jetBlue has no more to grow at the airport. They can't get more gate space that they need, and have been unable to expand their flights from the airport, which is begining to suffer from overcrowding and congestion that MIA does not have.

Quoting John (Reply 1):
jetBlue is still a relatively small player, next to AA. I honestly think they should avoid MIA, because they'll end up getting squashed like a bug. IF you remember, B6 withdrew from ATL because they did NOT have the resources to take on DL's mega fortress hub.

The difference is that jetBlue already has an established customer base in Miami. They aren't building from the ground up.



a.
User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2818 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
FLL doesn't offer the same opportunities because jetBlue has no more to grow at the airport. They can't get more gate space that they need, and have been unable to expand their flights from the airport, which is begining to suffer from overcrowding and congestion that MIA does not have.

When is construction on the A concourse supposed to begin? Also, if US goes bye bye, there will be several gates open in Terminal 3.



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineFA4B6 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2762 times:

I guess I started the exact same thread but didn't see this one! Oops.

Quoting John (Reply 1):
jetBlue is still a relatively small player, next to AA. I honestly think they should avoid MIA, because they'll end up getting squashed like a bug. IF you remember, B6 withdrew from ATL because they did NOT have the resources to take on DL's mega fortress hub.

Not to be rude, but why is it that we have to beat this dead horse. Anytime there is rumor of a new city, the ATL thing gets brought up over and over again. While we're at it, Air France's planes are dirty, Boeing sucks and Airbus is the best plane maker in the world.  censored 

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
The difference is that jetBlue already has an established customer base in Miami. They aren't building from the ground up.

My point exactly. We have a huge following in NYC and a huge following in south Florida. We are already established. MIA seems like a perfect fit.


User currently offlineFLAIRPORT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2715 times:

Let me tell you. I live 20 minutes from FLL and I will be the first to say that if B6 offered new cities from MIA I would drive the extra hour south with traffic to fly B6. I really think it is THAT much better than other airlines and it is worth the drive.

User currently offlineFA4B6 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2702 times:

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 10):
Let me tell you. I live 20 minutes from FLL and I will be the first to say that if B6 offered new cities from MIA I would drive the extra hour south with traffic to fly B6. I really think it is THAT much better than other airlines and it is worth the drive.

Well thank you!

As well, I hope that if this does come to fruition, that it is a 320 route [I'm sure it will be]. As well, I have a hard time believing that any MIA service would cannabalize our FLL service. I think that they are two seperate markets.

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 6):
Would B6 shift current FLL flying to MIA to make their start-up presence large enough to bust into the MIA market. Didn't B6 squabble with FLL over proposed runway extensions that FLL decided not to do?

Why would we shift our FLL flying to MIA?? Why would we have to have a huge start up presence in order to "bust" into the market? I'm sure 3-4 flights a day to start would be perfect to start with.


User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3121 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2661 times:

Quoting FA4B6 (Reply 9):
While we're at it, Air France's planes are dirty, Boeing sucks and Airbus is the best plane maker in the world.

Wow you read my mind, however you forgot the greatest aviation mystery of all time - what will NW replace their DC-9s with?

TWA902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32581 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2613 times:

Quoting FA4B6 (Reply 11):
As well, I have a hard time believing that any MIA service would cannabalize our FLL service. I think that they are two seperate markets.

Two seperate markets? No way. The two airports are twenty miles apart. They serve the same exact customer base.

Most Miami residents use FLL when they fly domesticly. It is no different than LaGuardia and JFK.



a.
User currently offlineHawk44 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 759 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2593 times:

I'm all for a B6 expansion into MIA as long as it does not take anything away from FLL since that's my airport of choice.

Hawk44



Never under estimate the power of US
User currently offlineMxCtrlr From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2485 posts, RR: 35
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2473 times:

Given the political climate, prevalent for years and years, at MIA, I think B6 should stay put at FLL and tell MIA to f**k off! MIA and Miami0Dade County politics has reaped what they sowed years ago - an airport that is dominated by one carrier and to hell with everyone else. Now, they're surprised that carriers are avoiding MIA?

MxCtrlr  bouncy 



DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
User currently offlineTu154 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 375 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2465 times:

Quoting MxCtrlr (Reply 15):
Given the political climate, prevalent for years and years, at MIA, I think B6 should stay put at FLL and tell MIA to f**k off! MIA and Miami0Dade County politics has reaped what they sowed years ago - an airport that is dominated by one carrier and to hell with everyone else. Now, they're surprised that carriers are avoiding MIA?

Dade county is just like the rest of latin america.........corrupt! That's why most of us left Miami years ago. Never mind the fact that nobody at the concession stands speaks english!



FIRST ON THE ATLANTIC.....FIRST ON THE PACIFIC.....FIRST IN LATIN AMERICA...FIRST 'ROUND THE WORLD.....PAN AM!!
User currently offlineMIAMIx707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2424 times:

I hate to say it but I understand MxCtrl and TU154's point of view, and not so much because of the language reason (which is, to be fair a bit of an exaggeration) but because of corroption and ultimately $$$ is what matters to politicians and people who run things down here.

Also, I'm no expert but I don't see that many carriers wanting to serve MIA, and even less now that AA is so dominant as it has been for the last 10 years. AA is pretty much a firewall that prevents any sort of fair competition to any new entrants from latin america/caribbean. Look at SOL Air / Aerohonduras. When it first started AA doubled the frequencies to the markets SOL Air was serving. Eventually Aerohonduras started dropping routes and now it's not flying anymore I heard. It's plane is back flying for Falcon Air.

Quoting Tu154 (Reply 16):
Dade county is just like the rest of latin america.........corrupt! That's why most of us left Miami years ago. Never mind the fact that nobody at the concession stands speaks english!

Wake up though, the rest of Florida isn't quite as corruption free as you'd like to think. I know this might belong in the non av., but you gotta have some dumbass currupt, old fart redneck judges to not care about a person going 15 days withough food and water and not do anything about it. In this land of the free, make that of the Free Idiots, you dont feed your dog and the stupid Animal Police can handcuff your arse and send you to jail. But they don't care about a human going w/out food and water for 15 days... Not only does the government and the judicial system in Florida sucks, but just about everything else, except for the weather and the beaches.

Back on focus, I can see some airlines like maybe SAS, Austrian or perhaps some holiday European airline, that could be strongly interested in starting services here, but other than that not too many. Someone from Kenya Airways already stated that it doesn't make business sense to serve MIA as some here were saying. As far as the potential Latin American carriers, (some actually new ones could emerge, just to basically serve Miami) they won't stand up to the AA monopoly. Half of the Latin American/Caribbean countries which in some cases had several of their own airlines serving Miami before the mid-90's, don't even have a single airline serving the airport now. I guess you have to take the good with the bad, AA has become the biggest employer in S.Florida but it's also slowly contributing in making MIA a one-airline airport.

If this trend continues, in 10 years we'll only have American, 1 or 2 local airlines, the few European majors and 2 or 3 strong Latin American airlines left, serving Miami.


User currently offlineMIASkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1342 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2403 times:

and what's wrong with that?? look at ATL, that is the DL's airport. If you want to fly anywhere from ATL...you go on DL!

The way things are...



Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
User currently offlineAirportugal310 From Palau, joined Apr 2004, 3569 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2349 times:

Quoting MIASkies (Reply 18):
If you want to fly anywhere from ATL...you go on DL!

or AirTran...



A,G,A...nobody rides for free
User currently offlineDB777 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 885 posts, RR: 44
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2305 times:
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The straight line or flying distance between FLL and MIA may only be 20 miles but there are no straight line roads so you can add 5 or 10 miles depending on route taken (I-95 or the Turnpike). And depending on time of day, and/or wrecks on the expressways, that drive between airports or areas near them can take hours.

While technically the same market, there are many travelers from Palm Beach and Broward counties, and part of northern Miami-Dade county, that absolutely refuse to fly out of MIA due to perceptions about crime, gridlocked traffic, long security lines, language differences, etc. And there are many travelers in Miami-Dade, particularly those who live near MIA or south of MIA, that refuse to drive the extra 25 or 30 miles to FLL. Visitors staying in Broward or Palm Beach county hotels, or taking a cruise from Port Everglades, generally won't fly to MIA and visitors staying in Miami-Dade, or taking a cruise from the Port of Miami, generally won't fly into FLL.

Consequently, I think JetBlue could do extremely well at MIA because they will have a huge market that will never consider flying them in or out of FLL.

Don



Photographing aircraft since the Earth was flat and on Airliners.net since #338
User currently offlineD950 From United States of America, joined exactly 10 years ago today! , 493 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2290 times:

B6 could also shuffle people from Kennedy,Logan, and set a mini hub at MIA with 190's to run shuttles to some of the Islands.


Resting on your laurels is a synonym for flirting with disaster
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32581 posts, RR: 72
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2225 times:

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 17):
When it first started AA doubled the frequencies to the markets SOL Air was serving.

AA's service to AeroHonduras' market has not changed in years, with the exception that AA has added additional summer-only service to TGU. In fact, they now offer less seats to MGA than they did when AeroHonduras first started.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 17):
Eventually Aerohonduras started dropping routes and now it's not flying anymore I heard. It's plane is back flying for Falcon Air.

AeroHonduras is still flying MIA-SAP, AFAIK.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 17):
Half of the Latin American/Caribbean countries which in some cases had several of their own airlines serving Miami before the mid-90's, don't even have a single airline serving the airport now

What is your point? Every major Latin American and Caribbean airline still flies to MIA. Almost every Latin airline that has left MIA in the 1990s and 2000s has done so because they either went bankrupt (i.e. VIASA, Faucett, AeroPeru, Avensa, Aces, Ecuatoriana, TransBrasil....should I go on?) or ended long-haul operations (i.e. the now bankrupt VASP). It is not MIA's fault that the 1990s brought a reality check to the corrupt and poorly ran Latin American and Caribbean airlines.



a.
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4487 posts, RR: 33
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2206 times:

Isn't AA actually only around 50 percent of MIA's traffic? That comes up in discussions here every so often. AA might be dominant at MIA, and I'm not doubting that they may be very aggressive in protecting their Latin American operations. But at least AA's percentage of MIA enplanements isn't of fortress hub proportions, if I remember right.

Nevertheless, a lot of people would no doubt find JetBlue a welcome addition to MIA's mix. I think B6 would do fine at MIA if they enter there with competitive flight times and are willing to spend some money to establish themselves.

As for the judges, well spoken Miamix707.

Jim


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32581 posts, RR: 72
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2154 times:

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 23):
Isn't AA actually only around 50 percent of MIA's traffic?

It is now closer to 60%, mainly as domestic airlines have cut back service to MIA, such as United and US Airways.



a.
User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 25, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2156 times:

If I HAD to fly to Miami, I'd call a Jet Charter service and go to TMB. KMIA isin't bad untill you step out of the terminal, then it's welcome to HELL with the worst Drivers on the planet!! The only thing KMIA USED to be good for was spotting, and that's ruined because of the stupidly overzealous Cops.

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