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DL Trying To Kill US, Did It Hurt Them?  
User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4477 times:

Back in January when DL cut there ticket prices in an effort to drive the final nail in the US coffin, did it end up hurting them more due to the fact US survived? It seemed like they made a big gamble in the fact that their actions would kill US and lost, is it affecting them now or will it?

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 5154 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4468 times:

If it was indeed directed at US, then it did more damage to themselves. They are ever closer to bankruptcy now. And I for one fail to see the logic and killing US when the LCC's will fill the void quicker than the majors. DL already has to deal with AirTran at ATL, do they really want major WN (for example)operations at CLT?


Next Up: STL-EWR-STL for my first mileage run!
User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4459 times:

I'd say it's most likely hurt a little. US Air operates in fairly high RASM markets compared to other airlines. Even their CEO said this week yield has gone lower. Now much of this may have to do with Southwest and Indly but the new Delta fare structure did not help.

User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7554 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4429 times:

Southwest is purposly out to destroy US. While US have hurt themselves, Southwest is just going after US, not for the cities but for the airline. First PHL, which is funny, because they wont go to DFW "because it doesnt fit their model of non- delay proned airport) yet they go to PHL and not say a thing, which is more delay proned then DFW, not to mention MDW. Funny how much they have been contradicting themselves lately, seems like "the almighty" is falling like the Roman Empire.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineNWAFA From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1893 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4411 times:

The Dl fares are hurting everyone, not just US.


THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6638 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4383 times:

I don't think Simplifares had much to do with USAirways. Simplifares is DL's recognition that a simplified pricing structure is where the industry is headed. Even US recognized this and was starting to transition in that direction with GoFares. US was unwilling to go all the way, but it was bound to happen sooner or later.

I do think DL also pushed Simplifares a little faster, because of a lesson they learned from US. US continued it's high-fare gouging scheme a little too long in PHL which created an open invitation for WN to invade. DL saw what happened and did not want a repeat in CVG. This is why CVG saw Simplifares before the rest of DL's system.

I also don't think Simplifares has done as much damage as many believe. Both CO and AA (who have matched DL's Simplifares) have recently admitted that domestic RASM's are actually starting to show signs of improvement. What's pusing DL to the brink (and other carriers as well) is fuel. DL did not budget for oil at $55 a barrel.


User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4276 times:

AA is reporting a 3-4% RASM gain so far this Q

User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6493 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4166 times:

Jdwfloyd, where did you get the idea that the Delta fare initiative was aimed at US. Please share that info with the members.

User currently offlineCMB320 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 414 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4136 times:

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 3):
Funny how much they have been contradicting themselves lately, seems like "the almighty" is falling like the Roman Empire.

How does Southwest being sneaky in an attempt to push out the competition mean that "the almighty" Southwest is failing? They seem to be quite successful in their clever attacks at the moment.


User currently offlineALB2ATL From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4093 times:

Since the introduction of Simplifares, I am finding much higer airfare out of ALB!

User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4507 posts, RR: 34
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4035 times:

That's because ALB doesn't have AirTran. If you're not finding Simplifares on ALB-ATL, it's probably because DL has no motive to introduce Simplifares there. Just like folks in my hometown, Rochester, aren't holding our breath waiting for those USAirways GoFares on ROC-PIT, ROC-PHL, ROC-BOS, etc. Since US is so committed to a new lower-cost busines model, we know they're just dying to introduce $250 rt walkups and $100 rt advance purchase on ROC-PIT. Wonder why that isn't their daily, regular practice yet? Big grin

I think the first two paragraphs of FlyPNS1's analysis are correct. I don't know enough about the contents of the third to make an assessment.

Burnsie, you really ought to kick back with a beer or ale and relax. I recommend some kind of Belgian white beer, like Hoegaarden. As CMB320 noted, your statements aren't even coherent. How is Southwest "falling" when they're one of the only profitable carrier out there?

As for entering high-fare US Airways markets, I say: Good for Southwest! More power to them! Bring the free market and fare discipline to consumers who can use it.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineUA744Flagship From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3989 times:

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 6):
AA is reporting a 3-4% RASM gain so far this Q

AA's RASM outperformance is a result of two factors:

Primary Factor:
Effects of the DL pull-down of the DFW hub.

Secondary Factor:
Decrease of overall capacity on transcon markets.

Going forward, UA's pull-down of ORD service is forecast to be good for AA as well.


User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3973 times:

It just seemed that these new low fares came out at the same time US was really hurting for cash. Maybe DL's timing was just a little too convenient for the situation.

User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6493 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3885 times:

DCA-ROCguy,

Don't confuse our Southwest expert with facts. He is also the expert on NWA new aircraft orders even when wrong.


User currently offlineDaron4000 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 712 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3614 times:

Quoting UA744Flagship (Reply 11):
Going forward, UA's pull-down of ORD service is forecast to be good for AA as well.

What pulldown are you talking about? United still carries more people on more flights out of ORD than AA.


User currently offlineThucydides From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 95 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3511 times:

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 10):
That's because ALB doesn't have AirTran. If you're not finding Simplifares on ALB-ATL, it's probably because DL has no motive to introduce Simplifares there.

Simplifares have been implemented system wide domestically and are not reserved for certain routes.


User currently offlineSongStar From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 132 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3245 times:

I think some people are confusing Simplifares with "rock bottom fares" DL implimented Simplifares as a way to "simplify" the fare structures...not to slash fares all across the board....They capped the highest fare domestically ( $499 Y class and $599 F class ) but that doesn't mean they are also selling seats for $29....

just my 2 cents


ss

flysong.com


User currently offlineMidway2airtran From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 864 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2772 times:

Quoting SongStar (Reply 16):
I think some people are confusing Simplifares with "rock bottom fares" DL implimented Simplifares as a way to "simplify" the fare structures...not to slash fares all across the board....They capped the highest fare domestically ( $499 Y class and $599 F class ) but that doesn't mean they are also selling seats for $29....

Exactly! They tried hard to make it look like that to draw attention from LCCs. Kudos to the DL PR staff for not only leading on the traveling public, but expert Aneters too, about Simplifares. After it was introduced, most of the advanced coach fares actually increased.

As for the US effect, as of a month ago I have noticed DL finally matching US lowest fares again for the first time since Simplifares for RDU-JAN that I fly twice a month. Anybody else noticing the same change in other markets? Maybe the traveling public knows how to airfare shop better than DL thought?



"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
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