if the embraer in question is indeed a VLJ, lear will not be the competition, their jets are too large to be compared. competition would come in the form of the CJ1, the mustang, a700, and a few others that seem to be crawling out of the wood work as a new trend in GA jets pops out from around the corner in the following years.
as long as we're on the topic of embraer, does it bother anybody else that the legacy has the airline style windows? i'm sure the requirements in rearranging the windows would greatly outweigh the benefits of leaving it as it is, but those windows kill me! personally, i feel the gulfstreams take one a much better appearance with the large, oval windows versus the multiple window airline type. same with the global express!
While its only a testbed right now, I expect Honda will re-engineer the Honda jet for production within the next two years.
Back on topic: For Embraer to get orders from netjets or the other large biz jet buyers, they need a more complete line up. Right now the VLJ market looks to be getting crowded. But maybe they could pull it off. Its almost like Embraer wants to kick Bombardier out of the business! Why didn't Bombardier do a CRJ based bussiness jet? I just don't see how a limited production biz jet could compete on price with a mass produced airframe in terms of cost. Development costs are about the same for a new plane as the cost to manufacture the first 200 jets. Since biz jets tend to have runs of less than 400...
CRJonBeez From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 317 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5047 times:
lightsaber, don't forget that bombardier has already released several variants of the challenger; 600, 601, 604, and the new 300. for being a relatively new entry to the market, i've seen quite a few CL30s where i work. on top of the challenger line, the challenger 800 executive is available for preview on the bombardier website. it is a corporate setup of the CRJ2 (think 328 biz jet/E135 legacy). beyond the RJ set up, you have the always popular learjet family, the global express and it's little brother, the global 5000.
when it comes to fractional companies, net jets seems happy with their falcon and gulfstream fleet. i suppose flight options may have an interest in the 800, but as it stands, they're currently flying the legacy and i don't personally see the CRJ Exec. being a possibility any time in the near future for options.
i don't think bombardier will do that well with the 800, but i've been wrong before. i think they should put more work in pushing the aircraft with FlexJet before venturing outside to the other companies.
Lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 14788 posts, RR: 100
Reply 12, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5032 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting CRJonBeez (Reply 11): i don't think bombardier will do that well with the 800, but i've been wrong before. i think they should put more work in pushing the aircraft with FlexJet before venturing outside to the other companies.
CRJonBeez, While Bombardier might not sell many 800's, it seems like the cost is low and thus the profits should be good. I do agree, with half the business jets going to the fractional companies, both Bombardier and Embraer just cannot ignore them.
You are right that Bombardier has a much stronger business jet lineup. I was being a bit facetious that Embraer could knock them out of the business, at least this decade...
Boeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4931 times:
A VLA maybe, but I seriously doubt they will start up a "Legacy" on the 170/190 platform. To do so, I'm sure they would mate a 190 wing to the 170 fuselage, then add extra aux tanks. I have no idea what kind of range that would give the aircraft, but it should be able to cross the pond with ease and then some.
personally, i believe for a widebody bizjet to succeed in the market, you need to prove your worth more to owners/operators of the current big dogs, your gulfstreams and falcon lineup. both have a strong foothold in the door and don't seem to be going anywhere soon. it's an awfully tough market to break through when you already have such large companies that have dominated the field for so long. to put it modestly, i would be extremely surprised if embraer succeeded in the business sector of aviation. unless they have a plan to enter the market with a whole new approach to the industry, they will struggle to stay afloat. the e135 seemed like a decent idea at first, but i've heard from several pilots the hassles with the "comfort factor" compared to something like a gulfstream.
i wouldn't count on it quite yet. i understand what you're saying, but like i said above, you have to match the demand. the crj has proven itself to be a strong competitor in the regional market, but that means nothing in an entirely different world of bizjets. you now must consider operating costs to companies that specifically work ONLY with large private jets. history in a specific area proves to be a strong argument no matter what business you're involved in.
working for an FBO, i've seen quite the array of aircraft, from the grumman lynx, to the overkill of a private jet people call a boeing business jet. of all the private aircraft i've seen, i have yet to see the CRJ biz conversion and the only reason i see E135 legacies are because of our previous affiliation with flight options, who use them as their flagship carrier.