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4 Engine A/C Takes Off On 3 Engines W/pax?  
User currently offlineBohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2705 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4563 times:

http://www.toomuchfs.com/reallife/nicequality.htm

Can someone confirm or deny this really happened? To summarize, apparently an airliner had a bad engine and they just "deferred" the engine and strapped the fan so it would not windmill. Then the airline launched the plane full of passengers on only three engines. I just find it hard to believe.

[Edited 2005-04-01 05:50:32]

9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4535 times:

One cannot legally defer obvious items like engines and wings... A -3 or 4-engined aircraft can be ferried with an engine inop, but it's a "maintenance ferry" i.e. crew only and never any passengers.

I don't doubt the account of the aircraft depicted in the photos, as there are parts of the world where regulatory compliance isn't a high priority.


User currently offlineN754PR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4395 times:

Thats an engine on a trolly so I dont trust this story.... someones Idea of fun me thinks... liar 

User currently offlineCloudy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4359 times:

In this story, the crew decides to START a takeoff on 3 engines with passengers. That is indeed unusual, indeed, I believe it is unheard of in first world airlines.

However, there are many incidents in which a pilot will CONTINUE a takeoff when an engine fails after the takeoff begins. In fact, there is a point in the takeoff role after which this is standard procedure. This is because sometimes there is not enough runway left to stop the plane, but there is enough to take off even when short one engine. The FAA requires that there never be a point in the takeoff when the pilot can neither stop the plane nor takeoff safely, even if an engine fails.


User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4314 times:

Not quite true. In addition to regulatory approval for the ferry flight, which prohibits all but the basic flight crew, you would also need approval from the aircraft manufacturer. I certainly doubt if Boeing or Airbus would even think of allowing a 3 engine ferry.

User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17055 posts, RR: 67
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4297 times:

Quoting Cloudy (Reply 3):
However, there are many incidents in which a pilot will CONTINUE a takeoff when an engine fails after the takeoff begins. In fact, there is a point in the takeoff role after which this is standard procedure. This is because sometimes there is not enough runway left to stop the plane, but there is enough to take off even when short one engine. The FAA requires that there never be a point in the takeoff when the pilot can neither stop the plane nor takeoff safely, even if an engine fails.

The point (actually it's a speed) you are tallking about is referred to as V1. Beyond this point the pilots are committed to take off. Attempting to stop beyond V1 will normally result in a runway overrun.

Reasons for stopping before 80 knots:
- Pretty much any problem.

Reasons for stopping beyond 80 knots but before V1:
- Engine failure.
- Fire.
- Flight control surfaces not responding.
- Other serious problem.

Beyond V1, it's up, up and away regardless. If there is a problem serious enough to warrant landing, you either dump fuel (if you are heavy enough) and land or land directly.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineNORTHSEATIGER From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 432 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4174 times:

This article surfaced about 2 years ago at work but the story was far more detailed and I'm sure there was pictures of the engine actually on the wing.


T's And P's look good....Rotate
User currently offlineJeffSFO From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3769 times:

I always got a kick out of this photo from the database:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/224038/L/

But since it's a cargo operator, the missing engine scenario doesn't really pertain to the original question but it's interesting nonetheless.

-Jeff


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14030 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3688 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 1):
I don't doubt the account of the aircraft depicted in the photos, as there are parts of the world where regulatory compliance isn't a high priority.

The pressure is on here as well in the cut throat aviation market. I know instances in Europe and the US, where mechanics had to stand their ground when they condidered an aircraft not to be airworthy, but the management insisted on sending the plane out because of the revenue. The refusal to sign off the log book was in many cases detriminial to the mechanic´s career. The management will do anything which keeps their statistics and bottom line look good, as long as theydon´t have to take personal responsibility for it (like the mechanic, who can face jail if he knowingly signs off and unairworthy aircraft).

Jan


User currently offlineSe210 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 112 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3643 times:

On March 19, 1979, I was booked on DL #930 from MIA-TPA. This was a DL DC-8-61 (N1302L #46029). Although not advised at the gate, once we boarded the aircraft in MIA the Captain said we'd be flying on 3 out of 4 engines and we would have to change planes in PBI (West Palm Beach). I sat in the window seat near the "dead" engine and I remember there being an orange non-ops sticker on it! We flew at a lower altitude but aside from that the flight was routine. It was also a pretty light load, about 30% full. The flight from MIA-PBI was only 18 minutes according to my log. Once in PBI, we switched over to a DL B727-232 (FL#362 N484DA #20864) for the PBI-TPA leg (32 minutes).

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