Ants From New Zealand, joined Feb 2004, 119 posts, RR: 0 Posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5795 times:
Great news for kiwi aviation fans!
The Sydney Morning Herald reports that Emirates will fly its A380s from Sydney & Melbourne to Auckland from late 2006. The paper says Emirates will get its first A380s in October 2006 and that London, Sydney & Melbourne are to be the aircraft's premium routes. The plane will fly into Auckland even though the A345s & B777s currently being used have a load factor of around only 40%. Emirates say that it only has to fill 40% of seats because of the profitability of freight.
Auckland airport also released a press release today reporting that upgrades to the runway to have it ready for the A380 will be complete by next year.
Leelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5688 times:
First sign that the much vaunted Kangaroo Route where, in theory, the capacity of the A380 can be profitably exploited may turn out to be a graveyard instead of a profit center.
Danialanwar From Switzerland, joined Mar 2001, 421 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5579 times:
Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 5): we'll see how the loads hold up through the winter months.
As long as it is more profitable for EK to continue their Australia bound flights to New Zealand, they will do so. They may loose money on the route but that's still cheaper than have a couple of A380 standing still at SYD / MEL for more than 12 hours.
Best Business Class: Royal Brunei. Best Economy: Singapore Airlines. First: please send money first!
OzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2597 posts, RR: 4 Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5499 times:
Quoting Leelaw (Reply 4): First sign that the much vaunted Kangaroo Route where, in theory, the capacity of the A380 can be profitably exploited may turn out to be a graveyard instead of a profit center.
If you're talking about the 40% load factor, you need to read more carefully. The Kangaroo route, which has massive traffic, is Europe-Oz. The 40% load is the onward sector, Oz to NZ for EK.
Or am I missing your point? Why does it seem you're always looking for a reason for A380 failure, Leelaw? I know, you don't buy the business case; but haven't you got access to the stats for the Kangaroo route in your line of work? Even the current seat number are massive: QF 28 744's weekly, BA 16 744's, not to mention SQ, MH, TG, EK, CX, etc, etc.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
Leelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 5339 times:
Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 7): Or am I missing your point? Why does it seem you're always looking for a reason for A380 failure, Leelaw? I know, you don't buy the business case; but haven't you got access to the stats for the Kangaroo route in your line of work? Even the current seat number are massive: QF 28 744's weekly, BA 16 744's, not to mention SQ, MH, TG, EK, CX, etc, etc.
You forgot VS as well. Seven or Eight operators competing on these sectors, especially with VLA, will, IMO, lead to much lower yields. You can only suck so much juice out of an orange, and they're all eyeing the same orange.
In this particular situation, are QF and NZ going to allow EK to skim off any significant passenger and cargo traffic between Australia and New Zealand without a response?
Nomad From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 56 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5054 times:
That's great news for me and many of you no doubt who work in the airline industry and have ever traveled standby ! I went to AKL from SYD last December and was offloaded from EZ. So not always running light, but good prospects lye ahead it would seem, well at least until revenue picks up.
Nomad From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 56 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4995 times:
Well looking at the photograph taken on 31 March it looks to me like we wont be waiting too long. In fact I would say it was preparing for an event, possibly pre flight taxi trials, as these don't seem to have started yet !
Lehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 22 Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4952 times:
Quoting Ants (Thread starter): The plane will fly into Auckland even though the A345s & B777s currently being used have a load factor of around only 40%. Emirates say that it only has to fill 40% of seats because of the profitability of freight.
So they are making money currently on freight, they do not need to have high pax loads. In a way this was expected, no A380 will fill immediately, I didn't know about freight though.
Quoting Leelaw (Reply 8): You can only suck so much juice out of an orange, and they're all eyeing the same orange.
So oranges do not grow [on trees]? OzGlobal is right, you need to read more carefully. I have a word for you, it's called "expand"; or do you feel that everyone whom has ever flow will be the only ones to ever fly?
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4722 times:
From looking at the worker just behind the inside engine (don't know what # it's called), one gets a sense as to how massive this thing is!
Are the engines in size (not thrust) larger than those of all the Triple 7's??
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4297 times:
Antares From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 1402 posts, RR: 41 Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3721 times:
In about 1972 Air Caledonie International leased a Qantas 747-200 for a weekly flight between Australia and Noumea.
The novelty of the jumbo age was such that the entire population of the major east coast cities seemed to take a holiday in a colonial French backwater that at the time had a population in the main city about about 40,000. Nouvelle Caledonie had a croissant crisis, people queued on the streets to get a table at a coffee shop, and the entire fleet of rentable vehicles vanished into the crumbling dirt roads of the hilly inland. It was totally insane but very funny, if you weren't a resident.
Then the novelty wore off and Air Caledonie International went back to selling around 60 seats a week on a Caravelle.
This is going to be similarly HUGE for EK, but for how long who knows.
Leelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3234 times:
Quoting Antares (Reply 20): In about 1972 Air Caledonie International leased a Qantas 747-200 for a weekly flight between Australia and Noumea.
The novelty of the jumbo age was such that the entire population of the major east coast cities seemed to take a holiday in a colonial French backwater that at the time had a population in the main city about about 40,000.
Quoting Antares (Reply 20): This is going to be similarly HUGE for EK, but for how long who knows.
A once weekly 742 service to New Caledonia seems significantly different than a higher frequency (daily?) A380 service between SYD and AKL. Seems like this only serves to disrupt a market which already suffers from overcapacity?
Aerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 6326 posts, RR: 14 Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3220 times:
Quoting Leelaw (Reply 21): Seems like this only serves to disrupt a market which already suffers from overcapacity?
It'll just mean that a few of the lessor airlines at that time will probably cease flights. I expect by then for TG to have stopped operating the route, that will take out a 4x weekly 744 service (after they start BKK direct - daily currently)
RichardJF From New Zealand, joined Mar 2001, 792 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3051 times:
[quote=Leelaw,reply=4]First sign that the much vaunted Kangaroo Route where, in theory, the capacity of the A380 can be profitably exploited may turn out to be a graveyard instead of a profit center.[/quote
The problem for QF is that flying 4 times a day to LHR means you have a lot banking on that route. What stops EK and therefore SQ aggessively discounting their premium product to gain market share.
However Good luck to QF on the Kangaroo route
I'm looking forward to NZ flying 772ER
AKL-LAX-GVA-HKG-AKL
AKL-SFO-GVA-SIN-AKL
Antares From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 1402 posts, RR: 41 Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2991 times:
Leelaw,
Your points are pretty sound to me. I was just reminding the youngsters that something spectacularly new has considerable drawing power until the novelty wears off.
I might add that until only a few years ago Air Calin issued handwritten boarding passes that were inscribed the night before a flight. It was, and perhaps still is, a very quaint old fashioned sort of airline, which i still remember for serving the biggest meals I've ever seen in economy, my last flight being in 95, I think on a 737-300.
You may not be aware however of the upside to New Zealand. With the China market kicking in and lots of growth still left in the Japan and Korea markets, and India just starting to stir, a trebling of demand across the Tasman within the medium term is not unlikely.
Assuming the airports invest in the right facilities for large jets (and I mean 777-300 and up, which too many haven't as yet, including in the US) and given the absurd slot situation at Sydney, A380s eight times a day will turn out to be a big yawn before we (well, maybe not me) know it.
I'm always surprised how this forum, in general tends to underestimate the future.
Antares
25 KDTWFlyer: The GE-90 has a max diameter of 135 inches and a length of 287 inches while the GP-7000 has a max diameter of 124 inches and a length of 187 inches.
26 Zvezda: Does EK have fifth freedom rights across the Tasman? If they don't, the Chinese market would not seem relevant. DXB is far off the path from the popu
27 Jacobin777: Thanks KDTWFlyer......your spot on.....thanks for the info...I didn't have the info on the A380's engine specs....I wonder if they will sound (or feel
28 Antares: Zvezda, They can fly anybody on any of their services that touch down in Australia. There is growing use of multi-destinational packaging between Aust
29 Zvezda: The discussion of EK's 40% loads over the Tasman. That's why I asked whether or not EK has fifth freedom rights.
30 777ER: With the A380 on the Tasman route, well NZ must be right about EK capicity dumping.
31 Antares: 777ER, You're right. But everyone is shovelling it on, so guess who'se coming with the biggest shovel. Antares
32 Zvezda: BiggestShovel just doesn't have quite the ring to it that WhaleJet does.
33 777ER: The question is, will the passengers thrill the riding a whale wear off, or will the thrill of operating the biggest passenger plane wear off and the
34 Antares: When you look at the trans Tasman it is a terrible drain on NZ and QF, although at times I wonder why they keep playing 'I can bleed longer than you c
35 777ER: Apparantly EK have purchased a large amount of land at AKL for a MX base I don't think WLG owns any states in NZ, or in any airline
36 Antares: 777ER, By Wellington I meant the government, which owns 82% of Air New Zealand following the immensely successful Ansett investment. Antares
37 RichardJF: Flights by EK eastward from AKL doesn't stuff NZ by any stretch it just opens up the market more. Transfering at Auckland will just become much more
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I have a word for you, it's called "expand"; or do you feel that everyone whom has ever flow will be the only ones to ever fly?
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